waysider

The life of the ministry The success of an MLM is in the twig. is dependent on the base of the pyramid.

If this is the same article I am remembering, it contains a quote from the mother of one of the "Groovy Christians". (Chris L.,I think.) Speaking about her son's new found enthusiastic pursuit, she said something like, "Drugs I understand but this is just creepy."

Waltz For Debby

4 bucks----Ohio My son asked me the other day what it cost when I started driving. It sure made me feel old when I heard myself say, "25 cents a gallon." :(

Hello, aball001 Welcome to the cafe. Yes, there have been several threads that deal specifically with believing. You can find them using the search feature. I even started one a while ago called "It happened to me" or something like that. It's an open invitation for people to discuss incidents that specifically demonstrated the "law" of believing at work. In other words, state your anecdote and show how it is directly connected to the "law" of believing. If it (the "law" of believing) is really valid, one would suppose there wouldn't be enough cyberspace to contain it. The thread, however, died a rather quick and lackluster death. Anyhow, I hope you stick around awhile. First cup of coffee is on the house.

The water does not even have to be raw sewage water to contain coliform bacteria. It's getting harder and harder to find water that doesn't have at least some level of contamination. A newly drilled well has to be tested for contamination before it can be used. The typical method of testing is to take a sample and have a reputable lab grow a culture. Of course, if there is no bacteria, there will be no culture grown. It takes about 3 days for the process. If the water is deemed contaminated, the well must be disinfected and tested again. If that fails, too, your options are to drill another well( Which is costly and will likely yield the same results if the source of the coliform is the aquifer it draws from) or disinfect the water, post-well, with a variety of approved methods such as chlorination, ozone treatment, UV lights, etc. Yep, that simple country living that is so desirable is not without its drawbacks.

Sorry, Y. Didn't mean to neglect Good Seed. That's the thing, though, there were probably lots of other groups out there who would have fit nicely with a a plan that was geared toward spreading The Gospel but they didn't fit into VPW's centralized business plan. And, that's what it was, a business plan. I remember approaching someone with some material I had written in my pre-twi days. I already owned the copyrights. There was no interest in even listening to them to see if they had any musical value. HQ could have never controlled them so what would be the point of investigating them?

And this, I think, was at the real heart of the PV fiasco. Paul had his own product (and a good one at that.) Wierwille wasn't interested in any sort of internal competition that took money from his own coffers, Had he been motivated by a genuine interest to have people come to a knowledge of "The Word", as he pretended to be, he would have welcomed and endorsed the independents like Selah, Timothy, Hope, etc. I'm sure I left some out because there were probably lots of others whose names and works were intentionally obscured so as not to detract from the attention focused on the "official" bands. I want to add that this is a statement regarding VPW's motivations, not a criticism of anyone who was involved in the "official" groups. There were some really good musicians in those groups whose motivations were genuine.

I don't think VPW had much use for independent projects that weren't generating income for TWI.

This is from Wiki. Other religions Aside from Christians, other religious groups also have been observed to practice some form of theopneustic glossolalia. It is perhaps most commonly in Paganism, Shamanism, and other mediumistic religious practices.[20] Glossolalia was exhibited by the renowned ancient Oracle of Delphi, whereby a priestess of the god Apollo (called the Pythia) speaks in unintelligible utterances, supposedly through the spirit of Apollo in her.[citation needed] Certain Gnostic magical texts from the Roman period have written on them unintelligible syllables such as "t t t t n n n n d d d d d..." etc. It is conjectured that these may be transliterations of the sorts of sounds made during glossolalia. The Coptic Gospel of the Egyptians also features a hymn of (mostly) unintelligible syllables which is thought to be an early example of Christian glossolalia. In the nineteenth century, Spiritism was developed by the work of Allan Kardec, and the phenomenon was seen as one of the self-evident manifestations of spirits. Spiritists argued that some cases were actually cases of xenoglossia (from Greek,xenos, stranger; and glossa, language. When one speaks in a language unknown to him). However, the importance attributed to it, as well as its frequency, has decreased significantly. Some present-day spiritists regard the phenomenon pointless, as it does not convey any intelligible message to those present.[who?] Glossolalia has also been observed in the Voodoo religion of Haiti,[21] as well as in the Hindu Gurus and Fakirs of India.[22][23][24]

When one speaks in tongues, it actually triggers changes in brain wave activity. This has been demonstrated scientifically in controlled laboratory settings. Here is one sample reference, though there are many if one is inclined to search for them. http://seedmagazine.com/news/2006/11/brain..._speaking_i.php In essence, when one speaks in tongues, the brain temporarily suspends the activity that is needed to maintain a sense of self control and objective, critical thinking. It facilitates the process of self delusion. Is it any wonder VPW was so adamant that we SIT much in our private prayers? The more you SIT, the less time you will spend in rational thought. Yep, keep speaking in tongues, kids. That way you wont think to peek behind the curtain and see the reality of the situation. In addition, Wierwille also taught in the Advanced Class that SIT daily was an absolute necessity for receiving revelation. (Page 10 of the AC syllabus for anyone interested.) Was there anyone amongst us who did NOT want to receive revelation? Yet, Wierwille cited(don't remember which class) an example of a man who supposedly was able to operate revelation merely by his intense ability to operate the so-called "law" of believing. No evidence was given that the man had EVER spoken in tongues. Of course, the incident itself may well have been one of VPW's little "stowries" that he invented to try to prove "believing" works. I don't think Wierwille knew much about the scientific aspect of it but I do think that at some point he realized (perhaps on a subconscious level) he could exercise control over our critical thinking and our behavior as it related to serving his agenda by insisting we MUST speak in tongues much.

My grandson Cletus(That's his name) wanted me to pass along the following message. ----------------------------------Happy Birthday!!!!----------------------------------------

May I point out that donations, financial sharing and volunteering time to perform services are not what is typically being referred to when people talk about a "tithe", which is considered a REQUIRED contribution. Yes, I know that, technically, a tithe is 10%. I think that fact is somewhat extraneous to the discussion. Hence, "tithing" and "giving", in general, should probably be examined separately and independent of each other.

I think I was in about 8th grade when that song was released . If I said any more I'd just be tellin' on myself.

Great stuff, Mr. Miller Wonderful Dobro work and just the right amount of bass.

One of the more common exercises used in improvisational classes is speaking in an unknown language. I'm sure many people have seen this sort of thing on TV improv. shows and sitcoms. Sometimes the director will say something like, "OK, now let me hear that scene in Italian." It's just not that unusual. I posed this very thing to TWI leadership when I was a Way "newbie". I was told that SIT/TIP was impossible to fake and God would tell leadership if someone was trying to do this. Yet, I know for a fact that it WAS done for quite awhile by someone I know personally and no one was ever suspicious,as far as I know. Now, I'm NOT saying that such a thing doesn't or couldn't exist. What I AM saying is that I think what we learned about it in TWI is misguided and off the mark.

I think there are really two different questions represented here. 1. Do you think there is validity to the Biblical accounts of speaking in tongues? 2. Do you think VPW was accurate in his analysis of its meaning and its application to modern times? (Though I realize he did not reach those conclusions through his own doing.) (1.)Personally, I think there is some validity to the Biblical accounts, though I'm not sure of the depth of the significance. (2.) I'm inclined to believe that the speakers were aware of the meaning of their words and the burden of understanding fell on the recipients who did not normally understand the languages spoken. Sort of a reversal of what we have always assumed. In other words, I speak something in English, my native "tongue", yet someone who only understands French understands what I am saying. I guess, perhaps, the key would be in understanding who is being referred to when it talks about "their" native tongue, the speaker or the hearer? Either way, I personally never heard an example of either version. Wierwille's was probably the phoniest I ever heard. If you listen to his "schpiel" in PLAF(The Miracle Class), you can hear him trying to justify the phoniness of his own tongue, I know someone who totally faked the whole thing straight through the Intermediate Class and then on into twig fellowship. Where was the "revelation" to alert the leaders of the deception? And yet, I believe I received something I would now consider to be divine revelation without a shadow of a doubt. (Once and only once as far as the certainty) edited to note: If it wasn't revelation, there is something out there that is way too big and powerful for me to chance pizzing off.

Well, I agree with you---- (in the context of a genuinely philanthropic organization). Trouble is, TWI was, in reality, a pyramid scheme, otherwise known as as a multi-level-marketing organization or MLM for short. It was all about the bottom line. Wierwille was a cold fish who could put on a very good front. He didn't really care if you lived or died as long as the money kept flowing in his direction. If you think that assessment is a bit too cold, please re-read the L.E.A.D. accident thread and decide for yourself. It was all about Wierwille, maintaining his cushy lifestyle and promoting his anti-Semitic, Liberty Lobby, white supremacy agenda. Had he been genuine, it would have broken his heart to see the way people suffered and died to sustain his lifestyle.-------------- dirty bastage!!!

It's always great to hear from you, Mo. Glad life is keeping you active and busy. Hope you have a wonderful summer!!

Here's a cool little Bill Evans story. In the 1930's, when Bill and his older brother Harry were just kids, there was only enough money for one of them to start taking the piano lessons that they both desired. Harry, being the older, would take the lesson and then come home to show Bill whatever it was he had been taught that day. Bill would gobble it up make it his own. That's real brotherly love for you.

If they don't grow their own mung bean sprouts and Swiss Chard and make their own familia from scratch in bag- lined garbage cans, I ain't goin' and that's that!! And you can't make me! So there!

For those who may not be aware of how this works, I offer the following explanation: Two believers decide to go mall witnessing. They cruise the mall until they see a potential target,alone and unoccupied on a bench. They split up and one casually sits next to the target. Next, the second believer(the shill) moves in and sits next to them, striking up a conversation with believer #1 but not acknowledging the fact that they know each other. The conversation (the topic being The Word, of course) will ultimately lead to the two believers being on somewhat opposing but innocuous sides of a "debate". At this point, the target may feel compelled to take sides with one of the two, thus drawing himself into the discussion, completely unaware that he has taken the bait. That's the proverbial foot-in-the-door that would otherwise be difficult to find and will hopefully lead to a signature on the familiar "green card". There are lots of variations. I've seen it done in bars and outdoor festivals as well.

Nobody got it so I guess that means------FREE POST!!!!

I can and will tell you as a matter of stated fact that "shill witnessing" was promoted by TWI. It was an especially popular method to use when mall-witnessing. Lots of malls have "no solicitation" rules, but, impromptu conversations among (what appear to be) strangers are permitted. It's a perfect method of circumventing that little technicality. It's as old as the very art of "hucksterism". (Is that a real word?)