def59

Not enough to condemn VP now you are condemning the folks he learned from as "fringe". ha ha ha ha haB.G. Leonard, E.W. Kenyon, Stiles, Bullinger, Pillai, Martin Luther, etc. those are the biggies, yes they are all glassy eyed cultists on the fringe. Me too.:D--> Who said anything about Martin Luther?

I saw VP and JP play the guitar at a family table at ROA in 78 or 79. TWI took a pic and used it in their promos.

I don't know about you but knowing that the dead are not alive now and have scriptural confirmation comforts me much. OM I take comfort in knowing my son, who was a stillbirth, is in heaven right now fishing with his great-grandfathers. There's peace in that. Life is not fair, but calls people home for a reason and that is to bring Him glory.

The cute "little apocalypses" in the Synoptics do. Danny Sorry Danny, you'll have to be more specific. I found passages where Jesus prophesied about the Temple's destruction but that doesn't speak to the fact.

In other words. He was the Word (John 1:1), manifest in the flesh (John 1:14) Can it be any more simple?

Mike C'mon dude. Jesus didn't "qualify" for anything. He was born as the Word. That's how knew the Word he was the culmination manifest in the flesh.

This is where the idea that he was God starts to play in. A man without daily access to the scrolls could not possibly remember the passages. But if he had a hand in the original writing of the books, then that's another story. He wasn't called Lord for nothing.

Except that the Bar Mitzvah ceremony came during the Middle Ages.

But there were many copies of the letters and the Gospels. Most of those were written before 70 A.D. (None mention the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem.

Mike You start with a passage written by vpw as God-breathed, the rest of us are not going to drink that Kool-Aid any longer. Your idol died of a disease he said was caused by a devil spirit. If he was the man you say he was, shouldn't he be around today. Your idol was a fraud, and your arguments reflect that fraudulence.

Here's a good site. http://www.christianity.co.nz/

Bob and Dan Have you ever read Lee Strobel's "The Case for Christ" he cites his sources for how we can trust the Gospels for being historically accurate. Strobel was an atheist who decided to see if the claims of the Bible were true. He was the legal editor for the Chicago Sun-Times (or Tribune) and well-acclaimed. If the truth is what you say you want, it would be good to see all sides.

I would first grant an amnesty to all twi people, greasespotters, innies, cff, ces, and the rest. I would open up the files and see what really went on. I would bring in an independent investigator and auditor to check the books. I would fire bless patrol and rely on the sheriff for security. I would stop the classes and all programs and send everybody home for a year to collect their thoughts. I would bring all the best theological minds and see where twi's beliefs stack up. This would be a weeklong event and anyone on gsc or the offshoots that wanted to come and speak would be welcome. After we got things settled we'd take a look at what kind of ministry we really wanted.

Knowing his character and his heart, how can we say "he taught me the Word?" The sermon of his life, his testimony, if you will, should tell us of how far from the mark he was and how far we allowed him to take us.

Sun I am ex-twier who now believes in the trinity. I believe Jesus is God in the flesh. See John 1. I believe he was fully God and fully man. As for the question. I believe when we accepted Jesus as Lord, none of us knew him for who he really was at the time. If we surrended to his lordship, then he will bring us closer to him and we will know the Truth.

Then there's some of us who believe in a pre-wrath Rapture.

Instead of waiting for the return of Mike, lets get back to the subject at hand. Jesus tells us how he will return and when. Paul tells us it will be at the last trumpet, John tells us there are seven trumpets. You do the math.

Templelady Are you sure you haven't kept forsaking the spring of living waters for another broken cistern? LDS has an equally shaky beginning with Joseph Smith and his plates and special glasses and many painful lessons over the years including polygamy and racism. LDS theology takes many leaps with science and history, what makes it so appealing after twi?

But what about the guy who wrote a book saying the polynesian people are genetically linked to the Indians. He was booted for adultery when he was separated, but he and his wife have forgiven each other and reconciled. What is your take? Can your church handle challenges to the faith?

Grasshopper, I am glad you are finding a positive response there. There are many churches which are more than happy to reach out to former twi-ers. I'll pray for you.

I am of the opinion that God is in control. That said, I believe He allowed the selections or chose them precisely of the resulting exodus. Without them, the sham would continue and many of us would still be brainwashed.

Instead of looking for churches that teach way doctrine, why not learn about the doctrines your church teaches. That may prove more beneficial since twi doctrine is held in contempt by most denominations as heretical or demonic. I did it and learned how weak twi arguments really are.

Hey Eagle I go to a United Brethren Church in Michigan, just northwest of you. Was the pastor from your church the one who became bishop? def