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It is the same for those who are heck bent on exploring the gnostic gospels. The rationale is similar, trying to find hidden truth in "lost" books. Surely, because they were "hidden" they must have the real truth. Just as we have eyewitness accounts of the camps from the soldiers, survivors and liberators, we have plenty of documentation on how we got the Bible and why some books made it and others didn't. But why bother with the facts when there's a juicy conspiracy to exploit.

Belated birthday wishes Oak. In my house we celebrate the 12 days of birthday, hope yours was fun.

Hi Roy How have you been?

Maybe we could all just quietly forget everything lcm taught, since he was obviously on the highway to looneytown.

Why is it so hard to accept the Bible which says Jesus was God's son, not Joseph's. Even by the age of 12, Jesus knew who his father was and often talked of his intimate relationship with the Father. We know that Jesus existed before his earthly birth and does not the Bible say Jesus was born of flesh and bone — not tainted blood?

Wes Studi Dances with Wolves Graham Greene

Or it could actually mean what it says and that we all all born in sin. We are a rebellious lot by nature. If we weren't born in sin, children would never be selfish, never disobey and never throw a tantrum. That's why we need a savior.

True Islam is anything but tolerant, as evidenced by Mohammed's evangelistic style of coversion by the sword. Saudi Arabia is one of the most brutal forms of Islam in that they kill Arab Christians and hold weekly executions.

the prayers is used by some church as a pattern A - adoration C- confession T- thanksgiving S- supplication

The lord's prayer is a classic example of the attitude we should take when we pray.

CM Jesus Christ is God. He was fully man and fully God. I know this hard for wierwillists (both orthodox and reformed) to accept, but it is truth. We can see time and time again where vpw changed words to fit his theology and with this issue it is no exception. Some of the things I have learned for example is that the title "Son of Man" is considered a title of deity. Not the erroneous position that it means Jesus was the son of flesh, because even Wierwillists know that.

Propaganda? OM, your books and mags are filled with the stuff. vpw could have made Goebbels jealous.

TWI and vpw were focused on power. The renewed mind was about power. Walter Cummings taught that if you renewed your mind, you could live forever. (Perfecting the flesh indeed!) The class was about power. Believeing was about tapping into the power. Our lives in twi was all about power, both real and imagined. The holy spirit teachings were all about power But Christ talked about love. Reaching out to the lost and sacrificing one's needs for the sake of another. The church is supposed to love others and that is to be a sign to a sin-starved world. twi was all about giving glory to vpw, lcm and now rr. Where did God come in? or Jesus? or the Holy Spirit? OM and Mike, you may have the doctrines down, but the practices is what we remember, making the words all the more worthless.

God will do whatever He wills that will bring Him glory. You don't think Jesus had a desire not to be crucified? How about Paul, do you think he wanted to be shipwrecked, beaten and have other such misery imposed on him? Believing is not a law. Yes God makes promises, but he also makes demands. And it is that bottom line we must also consider in our walk.

The Bitch (a movie, not a criticism) John Ratzenberger Monsters Inc.

If we could get the gay lobby to come down hard on pedophiles, may be we'd trust them when they say there are just like everyone else.

The little-known third gunman of the JFK assassination.

Tref's right, jihad is holy war, the sixth tenet of Islam, added after Mohammed struggled to win converts with his first five.

Hi Mike Good to see you back. CW I agree, TWI did take us away from Jesus, as did vpw, because he denied the true divine nature of the son. Check that verse in John 17 again, "and now, Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made." Jesus had glory with the Father, before the world began? And while Jesus has left us in bodily form, he is with the believers in their hearts.

It has been my post-Twi experience that organized religion thrives when people are open to education and critical thinking. I have been encouraged to puruse logic and other avenues of looking at the Bible, that TWI would have called devilish. Abi, it may be the particular religions (sects) you have met that have these views. Not all are the same.

My S.S. class are adults, approx 21-50. We are studying a book called Cat and Dog Theology and the lesson was that many Christian songs suggest Jesus was thinking of us while on the cross. The book suggests that Jesus was focused on bringing glory to his Father in death, just as he did in life. Look at John 12 and 17.

Peter Lorre Five Weeks in A Balloon Red Buttons

Orson Welles Citizen Kane Joseph Cotten

Mark I agree that God allows evil to exist. The story of Job shows how Satan has to aske permission to mess with one of God's people. The point is not in us overcoming evil with Good but how much we stay faithful to God when evil comes. Do we curse God and die? or do we endure? Perseverance in the face of unfathomable odds is a common theme of the Bible. Some eveb perserved unto death (the nine generations in slavery in Egypt, the Israelites who lived in exile, and the Christians who were persecuted) As for God causing men to sin, that I don't believe for a moment. God did tell Joshua to rid the promised land of all non-Israelites, so not all violence and death is sin.

Brad Pitt A River Runs Through It Robert Redford