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But God's love does not call for accepting or tolerating sin. To say it does makes God a liar. I am all for parents loving their children, but that doesn't mean they have to accept their lifestyles. What if the child was a drug addict, or stole things? Should we just accept him and let them go on?

This is what I love about gsc. This thread has taken so many turns and twists. It's gotten so far off course, I don't even know where its at. Enjoy the trip.

We had a discussion in my Sunday School class about this question. I was wondering what my friends at GSC had to say.

Belle Which parts of christianity are wrong?

Belonging is a christian thing to do. We are not to be hermits. We are to love one another, encourage one another. We are a family.

Many homosexuals (could we drop the use of homos, its derogartory and unChristian), are angry, bitter people toward straights. Why? Beats me. It could be they sense the hopelessness of their lifestyle and can't see any way out. So if they can't change (the stance of the so-call gay rights side) then they can be angry over the dead-end road they are on. But there is hope for the homosexual. Deliverance is possible.

I heard on the radio that we are discovering more oil than there is demand. Because at $50 per barrel, it is beneficial to look deeper. We could also cut back on gas consumption by carpooling, mass transit and burning our SUVs.

I believe the Bible is God's word, but not in the same way I did when I was in twi. Textual criticism is a new field to me as is Church history and apologetics. So while my research is not that comprehensive, my early conclusions still lean toward the affirmative.

I will respond to everyone's points. I am working the book in my "on a new tangent" thread.

Here's a sample of the outline I gave my SS class. By Bob Sjogren and Gerald Robison A. Introduction 1. Why were we saved? Romans 15:8-9 2. Who was this world made for? Col 1:16 3. What is the focus in heaven? Rev. 4:8 Everything God created He created for His pleasure! B. What’s our focus? 1. What’s our motivation? a. Cats walk backwards toward heaven away from hell. b. Dogs walk toward heaven Matt 13:44 2. Is salvation fire insurance? 3. Who are you praying for? C. Some differences Cats Pray only for their church, often, always and only. Dogs Pray for the kingdom, other churches and world. Cats Inward — Pray for things to build their kingdom. Dog Inward — Pray to build God’s kingdom. WORSHIP Cats Praise for what God has done for them. Dogs Who He is and He has done. Cat Songs with “I” and “Me” perspective. Dog Songs with a “Him” focus. Cats- seek Personal glory. Dogs seek God’s glory. LORDSHIP Cats — He is Lord as long as it is fun and you are being blessed. Dogs- Lord no matter what. Obedience all the time. Cats want to be close to God, but only as long as it does not not interfere in their acquisition of blessings. Dogs say "Anytime, anywhere, only asks 'how high?'" GOD Cats have a half image of God Focuses on God’s love, mercy and grace, never on His hatred of sin. Dogs understand God judges. 1Chron 21:1-17 Numbers 20:9-12 Cats- God never judges them. God never judges USA. Dogs - Sept. 11 was God’s judgment on USA. Cats- Perks Dogs- Responsibilities. SUCCESS Cats define by human standards. -Church size -baptisms -S.S. attendance Dogs-Divine standards. Not numbers, but how are people obeying and worshiping. THE WALK Cats - Repentance out, self-esteem in. Dogs -Repentance part of life. Holiness is in. Cats- Loves head knowledge. Dogs Loves that which draws them closer to God. Cats - Bible trivia is fun. Dog - Obeys lord rather than simply knowing Him. Cat -Wants full picture before obeying. Dog Obeys the little the Lord gives. Cat -Church is at peace. Dog -Church is at war. Cat-Believes in arbitrary truth. Dog-Absolute truth. Cat: Feel-good theology. Dog: Obedience Theology. Cat: Deters kids from mission field. Dog: Encourages. Cat: Rejects eternal punishment. Dog: Sees hell as infinite because people reject infinite glory. Cat: Outsiders are threat. Dog: Outsiders are an opportunity. Cat: Jobs give wealth. Dog: Jobs are ministry opportunity. Cat: God means to an end. Dog: God is the end. SALVATION Cat: Saved from hell. Dog: Saved to bring glory to God. Cat: Believes "I am not going to hell." Dog: Point to God’s mercy. Cat: I am not going to have to pay the penalty I deserve. Dog: Saved to Worship God. Giving Him the glory He deserves.

Sixteen pages and 300+ responses. This has been a fun thread.

Tigers beat the Red Sox and the O's are in first. Ain't baseball great?!

In case anyone was wondering about my rant. I was trying to make the point that if you are going to accept your child's professed homosexuality, then you had better find out who he/she is having sex with, because it is well-established part of homosexual literature of a teens' first time being with an older partner. Some gay teens have been molested and take it out on younger children. There are consequences to the homosexual sex acts. Anal and oral sex isn't the only thing they do.

Rob I posted on some other thread, I know you very well, and your folks. Good to hear from you.

As for what Jesus did and didn't say and who he hung out with. Remember, he came to heal the sick, find the lost and judge the hypocrites, but he NEVER condoned sin. If he did encounter a homosexual, he would never have said that it was all right. The God who gave the law to Moses called it an abomination.

The Bible condemns a lot of nasty behaviors and says that Christians should not commit them. And anyone who practices (indulges) them will not see heaven. So your child comes to and says they are gay. According to some, we should welcome them and find out who they are having sex with and welcome them into our homes. First, maybe you would want to ask your child why they feel this way, why they want to act out in this way and how old is their partner. In my state it is a crime to have sex with anyone under 16. Second, ask yourself what you say if your child was having sex with an adult? Would this change your view of their "lifestyle"? Or what would you say if they said they were seducing/raping younger children. And what kind of gay person are they planning on being? There are many types and not all live healthy lifestyles — nor do they want to. Are you knowledgeable enough about gay sex practices to counsel them about the consequences? Will you ask your child to be celibate until they are an adult? How will/would you enforce it. Would you deny them access to pornography or homoerotic literature so they can better express themselves? Now fill in some of these questions with drugs, alcohol, gossip, stealing, lying, cheating, and see what answers you get.

Rob Good to hear your out. We knew each other in Kalamazoo in the 70s and 80s. I was in your mom and dad's twig at Bee Clean. Remember that pic of you in the Way mag behind JPW and VPW at the ROA? I was on the other side of the platform. JRP.

Rev. 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Doesn't appear anyone is getting out of this lake.

Here's a passage of scripture I found that seems to me a telling warning of what will happen to those who do not follow Christ. 3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7Therefore do not be partners with them. God's wrath is a reality for the disobedient. God is love, but he is also holy and just and his hatred of sin will someday come upon the world. Repent now and walk toward God.

Here's a look at the word "punishes" in the Bible (NIV) 1. Exodus 34:7 maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation." 2. Numbers 14:18 'The LORD is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation.' 3. Job 34:26 He punishes them for their wickedness where everyone can see them, 4. Job 35:15 and further, that his anger never punishes and he does not take the least notice of wickedness. 5. Proverbs 3:12 because the LORD disciplines those he loves, as a father [ Hebrew; Septuagint / and he punishes ] the son he delights in. 6. Hebrews 12:6 because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son.” [ Prov. 3:11,12]

punishment is for criminals discipline is for children.

Darn, And here I sit with a broken time machine. :D-->

I think we all know vpw made a lot of claims to boost himself up and try to make himself all things to all people.

Steve Give me details. P.S. Abi's mate and I want to do a good-ole ROA Mountain Dew party.

out there, how long have you been in GR? I am south of Abi's city.