penworks

Enjoy your birthday, Kit! Thanks for what you do to help keep GSC going. penworks

Does anyone here read any history of the Bible? Does anyone else question the dream of trying to get the "accuracy" of such a book? If you're here, I'd like to hear from you. To me, that issue is at the root of what drives groups like this new one. I was in the old one for many years. Seems to me time and energy is better spent on other ways of improving the world, but that's just my opinion. Guess I forget I've been outside the box so long it's hard to remember the blind idealism still inside it.

If anyone is interested, other books regarding these topics of who wrote the Bible, the history of the text, and who decided what documents to include in the canon are: The Bible - A Biography by Karen Armstrong (her latest), Beyond Belief by Elaine Pagels, Misquoting Jesus by Bart Erhman, Wide as the Waters - The Story of the English BIble and the Revolution It Inspired by Benson Bobrick, and Who Wrote the Bible by Richard Elliott Friedman to name a few good ones I've read.

Lisa, Welcome to GSC! Your work sounds great and in my opinion is very important. I don't live in Colorado, so I can't help with that, but there are tons of people on this site who might be fairly near you and available to interview. I suggest you post a notice under the general topic here called About The Way. Good luck!

I found them. Please disregard this request now. Thanks!

I like your channel analogy. I agree that in 1975 there was a lot going on, and I'll just add a little more background to your comment: "IMO......The Way Channel started expanding its market and, more agressively, separated from other Christian work in 1975." While I was in the Corps in 1971 - 73, VP conducted The Way Presents in an attempt to immitate Billy Graham's crusades, I think. Anyway, it was a big move for more national attention and we, as Corps, had to get out there and sign people up for PFAL following VP's teaching at the event. So in one way of looking at it, he was trying to expand his market even then and especially so after the first Corps graduated in 1972 and carried "the heart of the ministry" to a few major states, pushing all his programs and running big meetings for VP. I do remember VP using tapes of other people "healing" so-called possessed individuals, for instance, during the advanced class. But after we heard the tapes, he would give a critique of those ministers, finding them "off" in some way or another. To me, this indicated that VP knew a better way, a more accurate knowledge of the subject. He was more spiritual than those other poor ministers who were trying to do good but just didn't have the greatness of the Word to guide them like we did in our ministry. From the rhetoric I heard during my Corps training, I'd say he always hyped his ministry as being the only one teaching the accuracy of the Bible. And so often, he neglected to give credit to sources he used for his information (to put it mildly)...

I found him. Thanks to all for their help in the search!

"But she blessed a lot of people in STL and probably elsewhere. Is all that just meaningless now?" Regarding the thinking reflected in the sentence above: IMO this is a good example of the black and white thinking Tex and others have pointed out as a characteristic of TWI. It's a characteristic of most fundamentalist groups. I think the answer is not a simple yes or no. Just because I left TWI and now consider, as Tex does, that mind control was implemented in my indoctrination, doesn't negate the good hearted kindness I extended to people, IMO. I look back and would like to think most of my actions came from a good heart, that I was trying to do something helpful for others and sometimes I actually DID do something helpful...but often because I was misinformed about what would be the best kind of advice to give, I may have caused more damage than healing in people's lives, i.e. by telling them to renew their minds instead of referring them to a professional counselor. Those instances are my regrets. Meaning is a big philosophical topic, but in a word, and IMO, the answer is No, the kindnesses were not meaningless. You value the "good", leave the "bad." Determining what was the good and what was the bad is our ongoing challenge and needs to be evaluated carefully and not with a blanket generalization.

I appreciate the education you're providing here. It's easy to see it is a political investigation when it's conducted by a member of Congress...a previous post I made stands corrected. Cheers! penworks

Tex, I'm sooo sorry about your losing your mother - that is a heavy blow! And now a broken ankle to deal with. I trust you'll heal well - take good care of yourself. IMO your blog is educational yet personal and I for one appreciate the care with which you present your story. Today I'm preordering your book! Best wishes to you and your family for a happy new year! Love, penworks

Thanks for the blog link. That about sums it all up!

Yes, I believe it's a legal issue regarding finances (has their non-profit status been abused?) that's why a Senator on the Finance Committee is investigating it.

Welcome to the Cafe, Tex! Glad to have you here, some of us have been "out" for about 20 years, too, so you may run into old friends. I for one am very excited about your upcoming book, so let us know when it's available! You're a courageous person and an inspiriation! I can imagine it's been a long road but a very worthwhile one writing your story. Enjoy your holidays and stay well !

Happy Birthday, Rocky. Hope you see this before midnight. Anyhow, have a super year and enjoy the books on that reading list you recently commented on... Take care and don't forget to order Christian's book; it was released today on his site! Stay well!

If you slept in an assigned bunkbed in a trailer...er, mobile home...for two years straight, with four more bunkbeds lined up in a row next to yours and they all had matching blue plaid bedspreads... you VERY likely were in a cult.

I love his web site, agree he's a very talented writer, and have been in communication with him, also. It's great to see the support he has here on GSC!

Belle - It took courage to do what most of us here did: break off the association with an influence that was not good for us. It was a huge upheaval and took its toll in many ways, depending on our individual constitutions. Currently, I'm reading a book called Battle for the Mind - A Physiology of Conversion and Brain-Washing (How Evangelists, Psychiatrists, Politicians, and Medicine Men can change your beliefs and behavior by William Sargant. This, along with MANY other such books and information about fundamentalism, etc. have helped me understand the complex nature of what we were involved with and how leaving it affects us. Trust yourself. You very likely did the best you could given the circumstances...remember no one can perfectly navigate difficult situations. It's Thanksgiving...have an extra slice of pie and a good belly laugh. Both are good medicine for the soul. Cheers!

Does anyone know whether Bernita Jess is still living? If so, how can she be reached? Jim Jess, her son, is a Corps grad, I'm not sure about Sharon, her daughter.

Thanks very much!

I'd like to find Jeff Schmidt (I think that's spelled correctly). He was a counselor at Childrens Camp around 1985 I think. He later married a woman named Joan. Are you here, Jeff? Does anyone know how to reach him?

I hope to find Mike and Arlene Westphal from Florida. They entered the Family Corps in either 1986 or 1987 but I don't know if they graduated or stayed with TWI or what. They had about 4 children then. I was in Florida in the 80s when they were there and would like to contact them.

Ray and/or Fran, if you're here, please PM me. I used to live in your area of Florida. I left TWI 20 years ago. Hope you are OK.

I appreciate the validation and insights from so many other people here! If I write just one thing on this site that is helpful to anyone, it's worth my time and effort here. When I left TWI in 1987 I felt VERY alone. I WAS very alone. Only a handful of others I knew would still talk to me, and that was because they'd left then, too. But we were scattered across the country. So I turned to education and journaling to help me recover my former identity. That process continues to this day. To have been told "just get over it" when I left TWI would have done a great disservice to me because I would have felt my voice was once again silenced. I would also have missed the adventure of studying my life for its lessons. It took a long time to process 17 years of a highly complex experience...I believe I'm still processing parts of it even now, 20 years later. I do want to stress that what I write at GSC is my opinion ONLY and my reflections on my experiences. Nothing I say is intended to slander or libel anyone or slam anyone's beliefs. I distinguish between beliefs and the process by which a person is made to accept them. [more on that topic is found in Steve Hassen's book] Just my 2 cents...

I don't remember which class I heard that in, only that I heard it numerous times from VP and others (and I probably taught it myself at some point) during my 17 years involvement. IMO, this phrase is akin to "You have no friends when it comes to The Word." To me it meant I couldn't count on my feelings to be anything of value, especially in decision making or trying to make friends. I understand what you mean about how the phrase may appear to an "outsider" to be "good" but I think they would need to 1) believe that a person could accurately apply verses (usually out of context) to any given situation 2) that gut feelings or intuitions or whatever you might call them are not important and don't carry weight in decision making. IMO, for my life in TWI, there were many times I should have followed how I felt about something rather than sticking a "positive" verse in my mind or doing what VP said because I believed he was walking with God. Since I accepted the claim that TWI was THE ministry for this day and time, I interpreted my whole life in those terms, whereas had I opened my mind, I could've had a more inclusive attitude towards others (understatement). For instance, VPW's teaching about turning your back on believers who reject the truth (what he was really referring to IMO was his interpretation of the Bible) meant I should cut off any communication with people who didn't get involved in or left TWI, while in my "gut" I felt I wanted to get their side of the story, not shun them. In such a case, my feelings didn't matter, only the Word as defined by VPW did. This phrase also cultivated the attitude in me that my opinions didn't matter, only what the Bible said or what VP said or another leader in "charge of" me said. Maybe it was just me, but I suspect others experienced this, too. More directly on topic now, I'll say that I caution myself against telling others what to do like "get over it" since I'm far from being a trained psychologist or counselor. We're all on a very unique path and need different things. In checking out books like "Combatting Cult Mind Control" by Steven Hassen, I did find a section on Emotional Control, pg. 63, 64 that is helpful, "In order to control someone through his or her emotions, feelings often have to be redefined." WOW! In order to deny my feelings of wanting to talk with people who didn't believe as I did, I had to convince myself I was doing the right thing according to TWI teachings no matter how I felt. I learned not to trust my emotions. Thankfully, I've undone that indoctrination, but it took awhile to relearn to feel.