chockfull

No you were not “merely pointing out” I’m not doing this again. I gave a reason for my personal past decision regarding kids. You didn’t like that I said atheism is a label used to target by fundamentalist Christians. Is that statement untrue? No it is 100 percent true. Then you twisted my statement and contradicted it by citing a dictionary and saying oooh no it wasn’t “started” by fundamentalist Christians. I never said “started”. I am going to stop posting personal details because God doesn’t want me casting pearls before swine. You in the analogy are a jack@$$ that is represented by the swine comparison just to completely clarify. I’m out.

Sweet picking at my personal sharing. Who the f cares what Merriam-Webster says. So I’m wrong I’m not worrying about them being an atheist according to a dictionary? What about you? So you have kids? Are you married? What is your skin in the game in all this beyond “it occurred to me while driving”? If you wanna raise kids via dictionaries then try it and tell me how it goes. Thats the last personal info sharing I’m giving on this thread. And mostly why I don’t share personal things much here as there’s always that one person.

My kids have seen the impact of a fundamentalist Christian cult on our lives and have experienced some of that as children. They are very aware of the abuse involved with Way leadership and their treatment of us as ministers. They will never go to anything related to Wierwille or the Way. That is 100 percent due to the actions of current and former leadership and their putrid example of Christianity. They are grown and out of the house and exploring on their own growing and developing their own ideas and spiritual views and priorities. I don’t worry about them being an “atheist” as that is a classification label used by judgmental fundamentalist Christians. They have a respect for God and scripture an understanding of Christ and encouragement from us to explore what helps them most in life. They are wonderful caring contributing members of society that are balanced and help others. One organized at their work a group making blankets for the homeless, which will help the homeless infinitely more than “the class” would. I’m sure many would have questions about them but I don’t want to write a lot of personal details. They deserve the privacy of enjoying their lives without more cult backlash. That is another reason why I’m not writing a memoir. I’m sure they will probably at some point get witnessed to or sent a postcard. They can respond with a puzzling look and a “no thank you”. Much better than an entangled life of lies and bondage. Kids growing up in a cult have a special Dante’s Inferno they endure. Mine have. I need their adult lives to be free from that and not impacted by my decisions and goals. They certainly don’t need impact from any personal moglet ascension priorities which I don’t have unlike 98% of my former friends in the Way Corpse.

Great blog it was an enjoyable read along with the comments. My observation regarding the new “post card ministry” that the Way has going on. The Jehovahs Witness Governing Body has mostly turned that high control cult into a publishing organization and a construction organization. Everyone on planet Earth has probably seen at least one copy of the “Awake” magazine published by the JW GB. “Witnessing” as an activity among the Jehovahs Witness “Publishers” (their name for witnessing group) really only involves handing out those magazines and recording who took them. This is done door to door and by putting pull carts full of literature at common public events in the community. Sending post cards via mail is their way of “low risk witnessing”. Like the JW there is no intelligence necessary, there is no necessity for understanding their doctrine completely to witness and there is no negative rejection to face. Post card mailing lists can be handed to Way Ambassadors for follow up. I don’t mean to sidetrack the main thread point but I definitely see patterns where TWI employs similar tactics to the larger and older established cults. It is all about avoiding any friction for the leaders and dispersing 100 percent of the work to underlings.

You can assume whatever you want. Yes if I post a link to a book, online article or online class it is one that I have read or participated in. If it is one with a photo of the book cover yes I own it. Why else would I recommend it? If I need a summary of links on a topic I’ll ask ChatGPT. The robots have read the books lol.

I saw this on Reddit posted by an active Jehovahs Witness regarding their assembly meeting and the teaching of the Governing Body. This is way funnier than anything I could say so here it is: —————————————————————- I took extensive notes at our assembly yesterday, thought I'd share Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told.

Hey Charity thanks for the effort searching out topical scriptures and the articles. I’m going to set aside some time to go through all of those just for perspective. I appreciate the work and sharing with us.

I agree with this. Dealing with NPDs or those on that spectrum involves a whole level of manipulation way beyond the norms and the abuse and forgiveness cycle to me seems definitely distorted. Beyond that people’s logic can be affected by emotion. If a person is real upset that clouds their vision and puts blinders on so they can’t see simple logic as it applies to them. I actually believe scripture to be true about people whose conscience is seared with a hot iron. Those in power who continually make abusive decisions lose their moral compass. In that they completely resemble a narcissist and just can’t see simple truth or logic as it applies to them. One example of this is VPW firing John Schoenheit for publishing a simple word study on the word “adultery”. My gut feeling is that forgiveness is a broad topic that has many underlying nuanced truths. And that it doesn’t fit really well into an extreme fundamentalist viewpoint. There are too many twists and turns that can be involved. I think most basically forgiveness opens a door to the future, whether for self or for a relationship. There are also seemingly contradictory concepts in scripture. You have Jesus teaching to forgive your brother of a trespass 70x7. You also have Jesus teaching about millstones and the future of Pharisees. These need to be balanced by nuanced interpretations not extreme bigoted fundamentalist interpretations.

I don’t view atheists as having reprobate minds. I think I called you some names though over the hypocrisy of purporting to speak for what God wants while not believing in Him. I was over the line calling you names. I apologize. The scenario I can think of regarding the 70 x 7 answer I can make a parallel to my dogs behavior. I have a hound pup whose nose gets him in trouble and I have to get after him 70 times a day easily. But I can’t get bitter towards him because he’s a pain. He’s a sweet pup. Sometimes I get exhausted dealing with him so he goes in his crate and wife and I get a break. Thats probably a stupid example but it’s the working one I have.

Honestly I am divided on this topic. All the bickering is unpleasant. However without it certain people control the narrative 100 percent. This topic of “forgiveness” is among the worst for that due to how all these cults manipulate it so that they are not responsible to either ask for or to grant forgiveness from another. False forgiveness keeps people in cults. Genuine forgiveness releases a burden and allows for healing.

Maybe you should own the book at least if you are illustrating it as something that is pertinent to the topic. Have you read it or is it just a recommendation on Good Reads from someone?

And this thread is on forgiveness? Well we see the gaslighting part that prevents people from taking accountability for their actions and asking for forgiveness. I guess that is a small illustration. And using manipulation to say “do this” and I’ll forgive you. Holy crap this is a great illustration of how that cult used the emotional strings of forgiveness to play us like a violin .

Gaslighting is continuing to insist that the things I brought up didn’t happen, or just refusing to address them at all despite very clear instruction on the areas where I am calling out your behavior. This causes me the writer to doubt memory, perception to the point where I have to quote you to prove what I am saying. I asking rhetorical questions does not consist of gaslighting. However criticism of someone for answering a rhetorical question and multiple posts where you act like that didn’t happen ignore it, sluff it off, IS gaslighting. I received similar treatment in TWI when I would bring up things to top leadership. Ignore the points act like they didnt happen and control the narrative. Now you’re acting like a victim like I’m giving you orders. I am simply doing what you asked multiple times and spelling out the problematic behavior. And you are taking a parent child tone with me belittling me and insinuating I didn’t learn certain skills when I was growing up. I can’t say kiss my entire @$$ loud enough. Now you can act like a victim again and tell me how hostile I am. Congratulate yourself you are behaving exactly like your former captors who you profess to stand against. Your behavior and your high levels of criticism toward my posts DID happen. I’ve never seen anyone go to these lengths to deny their own behavior on here.

Are you going to explain it to me like you did rhetorical questions? It is to tell the other side of the story. It is not an Underground Railroad to smuggle questioning people out of TWI. Are you not aware of the mission of GSC?

I just did spell it out. The repeated question is gaslighting. Please explain what I asked in my previous post without all the BS. I am not upset I am just not letting your BS criticism go unmentioned this time. Maybe you are projecting how upset you are onto me. I’ll repeat it 1. Explain constant criticism singling me out 2. Explain calling me Mike or just like him 3. Explain Dostoyevsky post and how it relates to forgiveness and why it was brought up

Then why do you consistently single out and criticize my posts? You certainly do that and I’m not allowing you to gaslight me on this. You explain. You still haven’t explained how I’m like Mike logically. And yes lying. Explain the Dostoyevsky post in the midst of this back and forth. Or answer directly. Do you feel that quote is something I represent? It certainly appears that way in context. Oooh but no that’s coincidental. How does it relate to forgiveness then?

Ummm that would be you criticizing me and comparing me to people and calling me names. I’m confident that you want to be the king of this website and somehow feel threatened when I post a lot here so you pretty much revert to criticizing me or attacking my posts in some fashion. You have way more posts here than anyone else by a long shot. No I didn’t understand your comparison of me to Mike other than understanding it’s a delusion of yours to push my buttons. If it’s logical then please explain more about how I’m like Mike. I don’t have any message or mission to help people escape TWI. People have to do that for themselves. Oh and in the context of this argument it is fairly apparent that you do intend the Dostoyevsky post to be aimed at me despite your oooh it’s not aimed at anyone disclaimer. So that is you lying about it to your audience. I respect those whose actions and words garner respect. If your words do not perhaps you should look within.

Or maybe you can stop criticizing people for stupid things like possibly responding to a rhetorical question. That is you failing to convey your message in a logical and kind manner. You really thrive on criticizing my posts. Saying that I sound like Mike is beyond that and simply delusional. My response is you can kiss my entire @$$. My words included 3 rhetorical questions similar to the ones you criticized me for answering. But you can’t take someone giving you the same back. You are remarkably thin skinned for someone that is that obnoxiously critical. Forgive me or not I really could care less. Trying to control someone’s behavior with forgiveness or not is called manipulation. You started the tangential crap with picking at me so you got it back. I’ll stop when you do.

No I expect you to be sharp enough to know I understand what rhetorical questions are and have been responding to you with them since you criticized me for responding to your rhetorical questions. You didn’t pick up on it and have been doing exactly what you criticized me for over the last 3 interactions. Answering rhetorical questions.

To me practically I approach this topic from a “cast your cares upon Me” type of perspective towards Jesus Christ. I toss the concerns about the need for petty revenge upstairs and let him sort it all out. Then the Searcher of Hearts will be the one to determine the need for forgiveness or repaid vengeance in His time. I ain’t got time to carry that load of depression and anger around - screw that haul it to the dump and move on lighter in the heart. Whatever. The approach works ok for me.

Will I understand them better by you answering mine?

So I should stop answering your rhetorical questions then?

Do you really want me to start listing out all the possibilities??? On the anonymous interwebz?

To me that reads “don’t get all high and mighty with your brothers and sisters as your shiz also stinks”. Now the line for all the fundamentalist corrections of my interpretation starts over there ->

100 percent. I haven’t talked to the splinter moglets directly. But that bath water stinks of stolen BS and despair! Which is probably why I haven’t talked to the splinter moglets directly. That is the stupidest damn statement anyway. Who here has actually bathed one of your children, but instead of using clean water you recycled it? Thats exactly what joining a splinter would be like.