chockfull

With some victims it is possible that maintaining some form of rationalization for the past actions is necessary for them not to experience a psychotic break. I am sorry for what happened to her and the extremity of what was necessary to live with it. I look at the Nexim cult as to the extremity of what goes on with manipulation and control in the sex categories. TWI will have varying degrees of that going on, or at least did in the past. I don’t think the current leadership acts that way but they are heavily invested in covering up VPs faults there because they have doubled down on his class PFAL Today.

I feel like you pick at me to the point you can no longer logically defend your posts, then you bail. Leave it wherever you want to.

No more than yours was.

Oh so you CAN’T explain how your statement fulfills the characteristics of an “I” statement? Interesting…

This is an “I” statement. It is totally not about Rocky and Stayed. Did you know gaslighting and lying are kissing cousins? https://www.happierhuman.com/gaslighting-vs-lying-wa1/#:~:text=%235.-,Lying is a tactic to hide the truth while gaslighting,the case with compulsive lying.

Cool. Can you clarify how your post about definition #1 is really an “I” statement? I didn’t read much “I” in it. It was mostly about what you were not saying about me. Plus the gaslighting def #1. The only thing I felt was representative of the post you linked to about the “I” statement was you saying it was an “I” statement. The content was not congruent to me.

Yes the post was not on this thread but another. So? I suppose you could search for “apologize” and find it quickly. It may only appear once or twice in your 14,000 post history. Thanks for the well wishes. I don’t know what is going on inside your head. Just what you post.

I guess I need to go quote your post here too? Go review the post where you supposedly apologized and read it again. Like Stayed who first claimed to never have said “started”? After reading the “I” statement article what I can say is “I feel like you two are gaslighting me because you deny previous posts and call them inadvertent mistakes and you forget and mischaracterize the content of previous posts to make yourselves look better”

So rather than cherry picking the definition why don’t you link the reference? https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gaslighting Also if you actually read the entire article in Psychology today it’s real easy to identify the tactics I am mentioning getting people to doubt their own memory by feeding them misinformation.

What is an “I” statement and how do you distinguish it from sounding you are talking directly about the person you are posting about? The easy question is “then why did you post it in the context of an argument except to infer association”? Does an “I” statement mean that you are the one that represents the definition you posted?

Stayed I can’t copy your Bs from inside the box to answer. It’s so tedious to respond when you post like that where I can’t quote your post. It does obscure what you say so that you can deny it later. I find a number of those examples. So tldr on the last one. Yes both you clowns are performing #2 definition right here. And you’re both triggered. You both are highly manipulative posters. Rocky your apology was for contradicting me which 100% of the audience knows that wasn’t what I called you out on. And in the same post as your “apology” you called out my mental health in question. So you and your apology can ride out on the same horse.

Oh look the gangs all here I was going by Merriam Webster dictionary definition #2 “the act or practice of grossly misleading someone especially for one’s own advantage” But thanks for playing. PS I don’t buy your BS about inadvertently making mistakes. You know exactly what you are doing posting BS

Hey anybody that technically performs the act of gaslighting is gaslighting. It sounds like you were triggered by hearing the definition of it. Maybe you wanna blame your good buddy Merriam Webster.

Yeah. You don’t read apparently which adds to the issues. Look back at your first response to me 3 posts up and tell me one more time how it’s my imagination you used the word “started” . It’s real hard to miss it’s the 9th word of your post. Just to point out - when something real occurs but you deny it and accuse it being in someone’s imagination, that practice is called “gaslighting”

No you were not “merely pointing out” I’m not doing this again. I gave a reason for my personal past decision regarding kids. You didn’t like that I said atheism is a label used to target by fundamentalist Christians. Is that statement untrue? No it is 100 percent true. Then you twisted my statement and contradicted it by citing a dictionary and saying oooh no it wasn’t “started” by fundamentalist Christians. I never said “started”. I am going to stop posting personal details because God doesn’t want me casting pearls before swine. You in the analogy are a jack@$$ that is represented by the swine comparison just to completely clarify. I’m out.

Sweet picking at my personal sharing. Who the f cares what Merriam-Webster says. So I’m wrong I’m not worrying about them being an atheist according to a dictionary? What about you? So you have kids? Are you married? What is your skin in the game in all this beyond “it occurred to me while driving”? If you wanna raise kids via dictionaries then try it and tell me how it goes. Thats the last personal info sharing I’m giving on this thread. And mostly why I don’t share personal things much here as there’s always that one person.

My kids have seen the impact of a fundamentalist Christian cult on our lives and have experienced some of that as children. They are very aware of the abuse involved with Way leadership and their treatment of us as ministers. They will never go to anything related to Wierwille or the Way. That is 100 percent due to the actions of current and former leadership and their putrid example of Christianity. They are grown and out of the house and exploring on their own growing and developing their own ideas and spiritual views and priorities. I don’t worry about them being an “atheist” as that is a classification label used by judgmental fundamentalist Christians. They have a respect for God and scripture an understanding of Christ and encouragement from us to explore what helps them most in life. They are wonderful caring contributing members of society that are balanced and help others. One organized at their work a group making blankets for the homeless, which will help the homeless infinitely more than “the class” would. I’m sure many would have questions about them but I don’t want to write a lot of personal details. They deserve the privacy of enjoying their lives without more cult backlash. That is another reason why I’m not writing a memoir. I’m sure they will probably at some point get witnessed to or sent a postcard. They can respond with a puzzling look and a “no thank you”. Much better than an entangled life of lies and bondage. Kids growing up in a cult have a special Dante’s Inferno they endure. Mine have. I need their adult lives to be free from that and not impacted by my decisions and goals. They certainly don’t need impact from any personal moglet ascension priorities which I don’t have unlike 98% of my former friends in the Way Corpse.

Great blog it was an enjoyable read along with the comments. My observation regarding the new “post card ministry” that the Way has going on. The Jehovahs Witness Governing Body has mostly turned that high control cult into a publishing organization and a construction organization. Everyone on planet Earth has probably seen at least one copy of the “Awake” magazine published by the JW GB. “Witnessing” as an activity among the Jehovahs Witness “Publishers” (their name for witnessing group) really only involves handing out those magazines and recording who took them. This is done door to door and by putting pull carts full of literature at common public events in the community. Sending post cards via mail is their way of “low risk witnessing”. Like the JW there is no intelligence necessary, there is no necessity for understanding their doctrine completely to witness and there is no negative rejection to face. Post card mailing lists can be handed to Way Ambassadors for follow up. I don’t mean to sidetrack the main thread point but I definitely see patterns where TWI employs similar tactics to the larger and older established cults. It is all about avoiding any friction for the leaders and dispersing 100 percent of the work to underlings.

You can assume whatever you want. Yes if I post a link to a book, online article or online class it is one that I have read or participated in. If it is one with a photo of the book cover yes I own it. Why else would I recommend it? If I need a summary of links on a topic I’ll ask ChatGPT. The robots have read the books lol.

I saw this on Reddit posted by an active Jehovahs Witness regarding their assembly meeting and the teaching of the Governing Body. This is way funnier than anything I could say so here it is: —————————————————————- I took extensive notes at our assembly yesterday, thought I'd share Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told. Do what you're told.

Hey Charity thanks for the effort searching out topical scriptures and the articles. I’m going to set aside some time to go through all of those just for perspective. I appreciate the work and sharing with us.

I agree with this. Dealing with NPDs or those on that spectrum involves a whole level of manipulation way beyond the norms and the abuse and forgiveness cycle to me seems definitely distorted. Beyond that people’s logic can be affected by emotion. If a person is real upset that clouds their vision and puts blinders on so they can’t see simple logic as it applies to them. I actually believe scripture to be true about people whose conscience is seared with a hot iron. Those in power who continually make abusive decisions lose their moral compass. In that they completely resemble a narcissist and just can’t see simple truth or logic as it applies to them. One example of this is VPW firing John Schoenheit for publishing a simple word study on the word “adultery”. My gut feeling is that forgiveness is a broad topic that has many underlying nuanced truths. And that it doesn’t fit really well into an extreme fundamentalist viewpoint. There are too many twists and turns that can be involved. I think most basically forgiveness opens a door to the future, whether for self or for a relationship. There are also seemingly contradictory concepts in scripture. You have Jesus teaching to forgive your brother of a trespass 70x7. You also have Jesus teaching about millstones and the future of Pharisees. These need to be balanced by nuanced interpretations not extreme bigoted fundamentalist interpretations.

I don’t view atheists as having reprobate minds. I think I called you some names though over the hypocrisy of purporting to speak for what God wants while not believing in Him. I was over the line calling you names. I apologize. The scenario I can think of regarding the 70 x 7 answer I can make a parallel to my dogs behavior. I have a hound pup whose nose gets him in trouble and I have to get after him 70 times a day easily. But I can’t get bitter towards him because he’s a pain. He’s a sweet pup. Sometimes I get exhausted dealing with him so he goes in his crate and wife and I get a break. Thats probably a stupid example but it’s the working one I have.

Honestly I am divided on this topic. All the bickering is unpleasant. However without it certain people control the narrative 100 percent. This topic of “forgiveness” is among the worst for that due to how all these cults manipulate it so that they are not responsible to either ask for or to grant forgiveness from another. False forgiveness keeps people in cults. Genuine forgiveness releases a burden and allows for healing.

Maybe you should own the book at least if you are illustrating it as something that is pertinent to the topic. Have you read it or is it just a recommendation on Good Reads from someone?