chockfull

My point was that rather than someone providing a fictional story about their opinion of what “scholarly consensus” means for the sake of conversation can we just post the links plus a summary? This is now 3 posts in the off topic category and this one seems designed to make me new friends.

I mean sometimes time and political climate in a local area can completely affect not seeing any history or resources on a topic. Like for example let’s go research the history of the detractors of Kim Jong Un. Just for fun. How does Fox’s Book of Martyrs come into play evaluating the climate for Christian narrative and writings of the time?

And you have a sarcastic wit like myself which can help or hinder research lol

Is this like the quote on how 95% of statistics are made up on the fly including this one? Would it not be more helpful to summarize the scholarly consensus and provide detail like so we all can trace the logic?

I have not delved in depth into the current climate of archaeology and sociologists on this topic of the authenticity of Jesus earthly life from a scientific proof perspective. I don’t really know how that would be a fruitful endeavor given the scarcity of external resources. We have Josephus and Eusebius I’m aware of and have looked at. The TV you guys are referencing seems to be just a small section in Josephus where he writes about Jesus being the Messiah. The common scholar views on it contain 2 extremes - it is 100% true it is 100% false and also the consensus seems to be down the middle with it having some accurate accounts and some interpolation and cross referencing. The whole field of sociology extrapolates stories and thesis papers from pottery. So I am not real sure what the goal is in this exercise.

From the timeline and his own letters and testimony, Paul’s accounts were meeting Jesus Christ after his resurrection. So from a straight logical perspective if Paul was traveling in Pharisee circles prior to his conversion he would not have and did not by any account have any live interaction with Jesus. So no Paul might not be useful in establishing facts about the life of Jesus pre resurrection. From any point of logic regardless of beliefs.

Hey annio! Thanks for sharing. I appreciate hearing about your growth and movement post TWI. It sounds like you have found a comfortable presence of the body of Christ in your area and that’s great! To me some of the difference in views are exactly that - now I can be part of a larger body of Christ as described in scripture where all parts are valued and part of a greater Christian extended family where common grassroots virtues and goals are shared and there is tolerance for differences in the body without an extreme cult-like view. Where all members in Christ are equal and important and not to be treated like rock stars with entourages. Denominations have good and bad aspects including accountability and governance of course flaws creep in to human constructs. There are some cool community churches around too and some concept based churches with no denominational governance. It’s kind of like a huge family worldwide with different languages cultures and ideas can be dysfunctional at times like most families. I like it personally a lot more than the bondage of being a slave to “bring the heart of the BOD to all believers on the field and strive to run classes according to the overseers directed annual schedule”. I like it personally a lot more than the recently trademarked “WOW” phrase that will serve as trademarked justification for the same ongoing for future generations. Want to go in a different philosophical or spiritual direction? I think my faith in God says He is fair enough to see your heart and reward you for your efforts. If people made it more about Him and less about them then maybe there wouldn’t be a ton heading for the hills. Congrats on your continued faith and local family!

I don’t see the Way changing much at all anymore now than they did with the last wave of requests for change. Those resulted in shunning. What a lovely example of the body of Christ functioning together as one with a bunch of major factions each with their own leadership shunning one another. They do not have the elements or capacity to change as they have cemented themselves into their patterns and positions as their major achievement in life. As a group of Christians it is probably available for the lay follower to live a relatively benign Christian life in the Way as long as they mouth the support for the leaders often and not be too controversial. Certainly don’t do any Biblical research studies and send them in. The leadership is rife with Machiavellian politics and that has existed through several iterations of leadership. For me, I was seeking a grassroots Christian movement kind of like the Jesus Revolution portrays. To me that had life excitement appeal and a future. What it actually turned out to be was for me a huge disappointment. For me it lost or never had the real heart of Christianity that I had experienced as a new Christian introduced from denominational Christianity. Paper games with petty egotists is what it turned to be.

Is this where the friction from all the paper rubbing going on marking capital and lower case H’s and “also’s” cause spontaneous combustion?

Hello Cults S3 news followers. One of the questions that I had for many years was “do cults change?” And the following “what causes change?” In the JW world we are seeing some changes. https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/7M8iDVVflL They are changing some minor policies that people complained the most about. Then you hear rumors about the big questionable policies. For JWs the main ones are shunning and the blood transfusion issue. There are rumors of a new policy of “everyone follow their own conscience” on the blood issue and dissolving the groups that form to pressure hospitals and families on the matter. Shunning changes are only rumored as that remains the main form of compliance control for all cults - regardless of the message they peddle, Scientology, JWs, Mormons, and The Way all share very common practices surrounding shunning. It is rumored that a drastic drop in membership is what causes the JW governing body to consider changes. Nothing about the morality of what they do enters in. Corporations also follow this pattern which is largely a self seeking selfish lust for power initiative. In reality like corporations only pain drives change in cults. Which is very strange considering the underlying unstated objective of all major religions is to increase virtue in individuals while minimizing vice. Morals don’t come into play in a Machiavellian world.

Emotional intelligence seems to me like a healthy balance. I usually find this balance while swinging by it on a Tarzan rope

Thx for the correction on the RC doctrine. I certainly have a less detailed understanding of that than you do. I’ve discussed some of teachings with relatives. Isnt there coherence between this and the process for sainthood? Those candidates bypass Purgatory and go directly to heaven? Do all other denominations subscribe to the either direct resurrection of souls to be with God or the soul sleep doctrine that the Way has?

Dude I was expanding upon a question of how the RC church came up with purgatory, not taking shots at someone who may have a profile on this sites denomination. What I said was pretty much the RC MO in that period of time and their own disclose this also. No RC I know including extended family gets highly offended over the RC history through the ages. Let’s consider the thinness of the skin when we are bringing up kindness. When you get paranoid and attack that is not kindness. Accept accommodate integrate. Oooooooo it’s so offensive. Christmas? Easter? 10000 other pagan customs assimilated? What active RC is highly offended over those 3 words? I doubt the pope himself would be offended at that description. I guess the question goes to why are you so offended then?

So with RC history the pattern seems to be accept, accommodate, and integrate. An intermediate state between death and judgement keeps the followers in dynamic tension allowing for a greater level of control. Do good? Pay your toll? You advance. Don’t pay your toll? Everlasting hellfire buddy!

Yeah because Fundamentalists always need a scriptural analogy, queue up the Moses and the “promised land” analogies where there is a spiritual reason to exclude boomers. The Jr Rock - The Babysitting Event of the Year. Mom, Dad, now’s your chance. You could pack up a tent and slip away to a free campground somewhere for vacation. Maybe they won’t notice you gone and ease up on the “let’s get a Plaffy class together” witnessing outings. Hey at least it’s better than an annual forced family vacation filled with every member working 80 hours. And you can’t save for both - Way events, tithing, and a self care vacation.

It’s this link. Hope that’s better.

I would agree. Simultaneously he poured water on the fire of the “Groovy Christians of Rye NY” and in both cases placed his goon Way Corps grads leading both West and East Coast arms of the movement - Moynihan was one of them. The only survival of the Jesus movement persisted in the influence of Calvary Chapel which produced a new denomination of Christianity and various other Christian movement changes. The Jesus movement, which was originally one that originated from the fire in the hearts of the masses, was overrun by the weeds of human greed and corporate institutions. “The Way” or “The So-Called Way” or “The Way International” produced a rock star existence for VP and a subservient existence for the lay follower. A stagnant pool of lust for power and bondage.

The pickles were bomb. And that huge monstrosity of a chicken fryer. Delicious fried chicken.

Yes as well as the “hook shot revolution” showing Kareem the way.

socks! We have a sighting So funny about the parallel elderly groups. We do have an R&R splinter group going on - I do think it must stand for Rest Home and Rehab my take is the brain trust probably all saw the matinee show for The Jesus Revolution and had an epiphany. But the people would rather see the Jesus Revolution than PLAF-T Why? Because Christianity is for the masses not the brasses. And Jesus in peoples hearts is better than a fat lie about “The Teacher” chewed up in 4 different cow stomachs and regurgitated for the world once more. Peace.

So this year the JW Governing Body has made the policy change for all its cult followers that they no longer have to report up through the organization the number of “pioneering hours” they spend per week. They just check a box instead. This is causing some internal challenges. https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/DdBwS5j1Ps I wonder if The Way International has modified any of their volunteer witnessing policies over the years. When I was a leader in TWI they had policies for every single leader position in the organization. The instructions to every single leader included “Carry out the heart of the Board of Directors to all members on the field”. This was called the “Rise and Expansion” policies and was part of the “Way tree” structure throughout our country. It included that every local group would “strive to run a class” according to calendar goals. So to fulfill this, leaders designed similar outreach tactics to the JWs with door to door, public stands and planning and recording outreach activities conversations and results. When I look back on this now it is all control and zero Bible at the basis of this. Jesus Christ when he returns is not going to ask everyone at the bema how diligently they “carried out the heart of the BOD to the members on the field”. No the BOD will get their very own dunce cap dedicated to those who promoted their own interests in the name of Jesus Christ. Christianity is not a hierarchy of power like you see in the world with organizations. It is a grassroots movement at the individual not the organization level. And nobody anywhere cares one iota about what the “heart” of a group of controlling dolts on a small farm in Ohio is.

Ok I tried once again to listen to the incredible forehead. I got as far into the teaching as him going on about God making a way to escape with the temptation and how you should be getting warnings from God ahead of time to avoid the trap. Then irony closed in. And I shut him off.

Rev 20:13 the sea gave up the dead that were in it and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. These groups of people mentioned probably gave rise to the idea of purgatory - which seems to be a mythical place trapped between heaven and hell. Who is it really talking about though? Who are the dead in the sea as opposed to the dead in Hades? And the dead in Death? Who are not in the sea or Hades? Who are they? Will they have name tags in the 3rd Heaven and Earth of Revelation? Hey bro I’m a sea dead. Oh yeah well I went to Hades and back. Whoa.

Yes WoW - TM

Yes it fits right in with Bible accounts like the twelve meeting the seventy where they said “we own the trademark on everything you’re doing” and called them “swagger jackers”.