Rocky

I agree. What's more important --- the message, or the messenger?

While you're at it -- cut off your nose to spite your face, eh? :o

Some stories need to be heard --- regardless who tells them (just my imo).

Geez... PEOPLE... I wasn't criticizing Mr. Beck for telling this person's story.

And I certainly wasn't criticizing RR for posting the link to Beck's clip.

My statement was simply that I can't listen to the guy.

I think I adequately explained WHY I can't listen to the guy.

By all means, I reflected MY neurosis in saying that I can't listen to the guy.

I will still feel free to criticize Beck... but certainly NOT for telling this lady's story.

IOW, neither I, nor LindaZ was suggesting anyone needed to be politically correct in their beliefs or opinions or statements or actions...

And I appreciate the kind act by the person who found the other clip.

RR:

My tongue was firmly planted in my cheek, but I guess my little smiley face didn't make that clear. Sorry, RR.

Lazy, I'm not, thankyouverymuch. Well, maybe a little. But it's not laziness that prompted me not view the video. I'll probably watch it later. I'm trying to watch Dancing with the Stars.

If I told you to kiss my derriere (and I say this with affection, a very evil grin, and only because I know you in real life), would that be a personal attack? In that case, I'd better not say anything like that. :P <-- tongue released from cheek now

You're not the only one who can't take watching Glenn Beck... I think the guy is just plain creepy.

I like Facebook for both personal and professional reasons. Since my last name isn't what it was when I was in school, it's nice to be able to find classmates (or for them to find me!) via Facebook and without paying a fee like on Classmates.com.

YES!

I strongly dislike classmates.com but have reconnected with a handful of people I knew in high school (37+ years ago).

... on facebook, that is.

Coincidentally, I've been thinking about starting a topic about facebook. My brother got me involved with it and I really enjoy it. I've found several friends from high school and managed to suggest friends to other friends who were very excited about finding each other. Both my brothers, my niece, and a cousin are also on it, so it's nice to do a little family connecting also. It's like anything else on the internet, you have to be careful with what you put out, but you don't have the opportunity to browse info without the other person aware of it.

My brother says his liberal friends tend to gravitate toward myspace while his conservative friends like facebook. Does make some sense to me. Maybe we'll get a greasespot group going there....

I know plenty of Liberals on facebook (including ME). I don't like MySpace.

Here's what it (facebook) means to me:

17 years ago, my brother died, leaving a (then) 14 year old daughter and 8 year old son. For at least the last 10 years, it's been difficult for me to stay in touch with them.

I joined facebook in December 2008. IMMEDIATELY, I connected with them and am in touch and communicate with them every day. I'm thrilled about that.

I was born in Rochester NY but moved to AZ more than 40 years ago. My dad had a second family. Even with email, it was difficult to stay in touch with family in NY. (Dad died 12 years ago this month). I invited my half sister to join facebook. She did so a couple of weeks ago. I'm thrilled about reconnecting with those folks back east.

I have friends on facebook from GSC, from the WC social site, (many of whom live outside of Arizona) and from people I used to work with and know from my involvement in local politics.

Facebook makes it easy and convenient to stay up to date with what is happening with each of those people in each of those groups.

Like others have said, you can control how much of yourself you tell about and show on your facebook page. AND you can control who you allow to view that information.

AND... there are games.

Games can be time wasting activities OR they can be important mental exercise(s) for us 50+ people who would like to put off loss of memory and other thinking related skills.

I play Scrabble on facebook. It's a social activity as well as mental exercise.

House Judiciary Cmte to look into Arpaio's tactics

March 11, 2009

A day after the Justice Department announced it is conducting a civil rights investigation of Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio's office, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee said he will hold hearings to look into complaints that deputies enforcing immigration laws are discriminating against Hispanics.

U.S. Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., chair of the Judiciary Committee, will hold the hearings next month along with the chairs of the immigration, crime, and constitution subcommittees looking into allegations that deputies enforcing immigration laws are unlawfully targeting Latinos to search for illegal immigrants.

"We're not trying to persecute or take advantage of anybody," Conyers said at a press conference. "Law enforcement officers have a very important and valuable function. The problem is they can't interpret the law their own way to harass or use racial strategies to determine who they arrest." (continued)

Arpaio to investigated over civil rights claims

March 11, 2009

The U.S. Justice Department has launched a civil-rights investigation of the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office after months of mounting complaints that deputies are discriminating in their enforcement of federal immigration laws. (continued)

Sheriff is getting investigated by the Federal government - see Fox News website.

WG

One can find it on other websites too... including the local news site for Joe's county... azcentral.com

Every March 4th, I can still hear Walter say that line. He was so sweet and excited about it, too. I always thought that he was one of the nicest folks there.

There was a core group of folks, and I include Walter in it, along with people like Rhoda, who were just sweethearts.

I sometimes think that if everybody there had been as mean as Dr., we'd have seen through it long before we did, but if he fooled Walter and Rhoda, with their close associations to him, and their obvious devotion to trying to always do the right thing, I sometimes don't feel so unutterably stupid.

I agree with you niKa... and hope you don't feel stupid very often, because you're NOT stupid.

In more contemporaneous news about the Masked Avenger... er, Sheriff Joke, consider this article, in which Arpaio gives tacit acknowledgement that his racial profiling/crusades against illegal immigrants has been targeting those who are "easy targets," instead of those who are a threat to the public safety of Arizonans in general.

Arpaio likely to drop out of Homeland Security agreement

March 6, 2009

Homeland Security officials will make it clear in newly written guidelines that a federal program that lets local police enforce federal immigration laws is primarily for going after immigrants who commit serious crimes.

But Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio said Thursday that he would likely drop out of the program if

immigration officials attempt to curtail his enforcement powers, including his ability to arrest immigrants for merely being in the country illegally.(continued)

Today is MARCH FORTH!

The ONLY day of the year that is a COMMAND! :)

Well said, Twinky.

I agree!

Hey! Cut Dmiller some slack! He's defending our northern border from all those Canucks wantin' to play hockey down here!

Something occurs to me after reading this thread.

Don't many people turn to a life of crime because they were abused, mistreated, humiliated, and/or tortured during their childhood and youth? So what on God's green earth does this Arizona cowboy Joe think abusing, mistreating, humiliating, and torturing inmates will accomplish, really? Seems to me this sort of treatment would simply serve to fuel more anger and lead to more antisocial behavior. Many of these individuals have known hate all their lives. More of the same isn't going to make them better citizens if and when they get out of prison, that's for sure.

(Why does that song from West Side Story..."We're depraved on accounta we're deprived...." keep running through my head?)

I'm not saying convicted felons should be coddled in prison, but c'mon. Living in tents in the Arizona heat? Eating crappy food. They don't need steaks but they should get nutritional meals.

Back to the original post...

I do think the dog-training program is a great one. Someone besides Joe A must have instituted that one, if all accounts of his usual approach are true! I've seen documentaries on similar programs at both men's and women's prisons, and I think they're fantastic. They teach the prisoners responsibility, give them someone to care about and take care of, and give them a productive, rewarding way to spend their time. In turn, dogs love them unconditionally, as only dogs seem able to do, and the dogs ultimately get homes instead of being euthanized. Everybody wins!

I know by experience what a dog's love can do for a person. At particular a time in my life when my heart was really hurting, one of the things that got me through was a beautiful little rescued mutt who came to share my home and steal my heart. So for prisoners, many of whom have never known unconditional love, I can't imagine the depth of healing that can take place when an innocent, frightened dog looks up at him or her with trust and affection and gives a cuddle or a happy wag or a a big slurpy kiss on the cheek.

So I'll give Joe a thumbs-up for that, even if his motives were only to help the bottom line. The rest of his antics are worthy of the Jerry Springer Show, from what I've seen.

Linda... I agree on the animal care programs. Arpaio is concerned about animals, goes after known animal abuse emphatically.

Here's more contemporaneous Arpaio doo doo...

March against the sheriff

Several thousand people marched nearly 4 miles in central Phoenix on Saturday to protest Sheriff Joe Arpaio and the federal program that allows his deputies to enforce immigration laws.

Opponents of the sheriff marched from Steele Indian School Park to the Sandra Day O'Connor Federal Courthouse in a half-day event that also drew about 150 Arpaio supporters.

Organized by several groups, the march attracted protesters from Los Angeles to Miami. (continued)

Law Enforcement Circus continues

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, and children of all ages, once again it's show time.

Performing for your entertainment this week is the renowned TAG Team of Thomas, Arpaio and Goddard. Once again we're going to be treated to the state's master showmen of elected law enforcement officials.

The first act was Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, who started the week's entertainment by rounding up "deadbeat dads" on Valentine's Day. Joe stole for show. The sheriff gave us the same old schtick, including his world-renowned growling for the camera, as he showed off another catch of low-hanging fruit chained up in pink handcuffs. If you're easy to find and arrest, he'll track you down and parade you around like you're Charles Manson, even if your charged with a cracked windshield. (continued)

-------

(Emphasis mine)

The East Valley Tribune is a VERY conservative Phoenix area newspaper (Mesa, AZ).

The writer of this column, Bill Richardson (NOT the governor of New Mexico) is a retired Mesa police officer, living in the East Valley (suburbs of Phoenix).

I just saw a newsclip of Sheriff Joe on Doctor Phil. They round up deadbeat dads on Valentine's Day and throw them in tent-jail until they pay a $10,000 bond.

Now I ask you (and please don't think I am excusing nonpayment of child support) how is the guy supposed to pay off the late child support if he just lost his job because he got tossed in the slammer?

They do that here, too. First, they take away his driver's license so he can't get to work. Then he loses his job and can't go anywhere to find another, and he gets tossed in the graybar motel and the child support just keeps on mounting.

I know a lot of people are stupid about paying, but some of them, my kid included, have problems getting a job because of a lack of training/education, lose the job or get laid off, can't afford to hire a lawyer to get it reduced, and are probably behind the 8-ball by that time.

The advocate for dads on Dr. Phil called it a "political stunt." I tend to agree.

Twas up to me, I would find a job for these guys with a fair wage, make them work it as long as they were in arrears, bus them to it and take as much of their paycheck as I possibly could in order to pay off the child support. We got a lot of bad roads up here and think how much money they could make and how they could benefit the state/county by repairing them, maybe even learn a trade.

Sprout has a job now. He has a new wife and child. He owes back child support, however, and guess how much of his income tax return his ex-wife gets in child support? 100%. She lives with three to four other adults, makes good money herself, and spends very little money on MiniSprout. She wouldn't even take him for speech therapy, saying that he would be in kindergarten and that way she wouldn't have to use extra time to fill out the paperwork to get him FREE speech therapy where he would even ride a bus rather her having to drive him.

I know, but Sheriff Joe did get me started!!!!!

WG

Actually, you provided a pretty good real life example of the ramifications of publicity stunts that media whores like Arpaio do on a regular basis. So, I think it goes quite well with the subject of this thread.

Glad you're happy. :)

I know you didn't. That was my point. I figured you would follow your own advice to post links and do so in your own post.

Others did (which I'm looking at), but you've been negligent. Why should I google something that is in *your back yard*?

If it's at your fingertips, and you brought it up, it's incumbent upon you to validate the claims you make, dude.

You're letting others carry the water for you here.

My point is that when I make (made) suggestions for people to back up their claims, the inference is that if they do not, then I don't see any reason for me to take their claims seriously.

To apply that here, you are free to disregard my claims. I have no desire to spend time researching what I already know about OurPieHole. Take it or leave it.

It happened more than once.

I had no idea about any of this. I am really sickened if this is true.

Imagine you are the mother of a mentally handicapped thirty-three-year-old-man. Your son functions on the level of a twelve-year-old boy. His disability often causes him to act erratically, but you still hope that one day, he can lead a normal life. One night in August, 2001, he is arrested on a misdemeanor loitering charge when he begins acting strangely in a convenience store. When officers arrive to arrest him, he is clinging to the store's coffee machine and won't let go. Four officers forcibly remove him from the store, handcuff him, and throw him to the ground to be hogtied. The force seems excessive, since your son is disabled and only weighs about a hundred and thirty pounds. A few minutes later, his limbs bound behind his tiny frame, officers load him into the squad car to take him away. Before they pull away, your son asks you, like a little kid:

"Mom, will you ride in the car with me?"

"I can't," you tell him, "the police won't let me."

You figure that the police will probably hold your son overnight, and you head home to get some rest.

Two hours later, your son is dead.

When Charles Agster arrives at Madison Street Jail, he is confused, as is typical of his condition. He tries to wriggle underneath a bench, and although he is still hogtied, three or more officers and a sheriff's deputy jump on him, punch him, and knee him in the side. One officer grips his face, pressing upward toward his chin. Although he is now unresponsive, the officers drag him, face down, into the Intake area and strap him into a restraint chair. They place a spit-hood over his head, encasing him in darkness. Minutes later, he stops breathing. The original autopsy lists "positional asphyxia due to restraint" as his cause of death.

Videotape of the incident shows guards trying to resuscitate Agster, but he's already brain dead. A 2002 Amnesty International report expresses concern "that the degree of force used against Agster was grossly disproportionate to any threat posed by him."

Rocky,

I think your words will fall on deaf ears....well, blind eyes. To many people around here, if you're not a U.S. citizen, you have no human rights and can be tortured, murdered, raped, or whatever with no consequence. You have to provide more examples like the one I did of a U.S. citizen being rounded up and accused of being here illegally, or more of the many cases where U.S. citizens have been arrested on demonstrably false charges, or other cases of innocent people (remember that only U.S. citizens count as people to some here) treated horribly.

Well, how about THIS: Experts call ICE program used by Arpaio a failure

Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio's continuing and controversial crackdown on illegal immigration and the federal program that lets him identify and arrest undocumented immigrants is a financial and public-safety failure, according to a new report.

The program, known as 287 (g), has been touted by Immigration and Customs Enforcement as a public-safety measure aimed at removing criminal illegal immigrants. But the Sheriff's Office and other participating agencies have focused on easy targets such as traffic violators and day laborers who pose little threat, says the report by Justice Strategies, a non-profit nonpartisan research group based in Brooklyn, N.Y.

Arpaio defended his participation in the program, which he said has led to the identification of thousands of illegal immigrants.

Here's something very current about OurPieHole:

Mexican official criticizes Arpaio

The Mexican Consulate in Phoenix has joined the chorus of federal lawmakers and advocacy groups coming

down on Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio and his treatment of undocumented immigrants. Earlier this month, Arpaio segregated undocumented immigrants in the county jails and marched 220 convicted inmates from Durango Jail to Tent City.

The sheriff said it would save money and help facilitate visits by attorneys or the Mexican consulate. That's a sham, Consul General of Mexico Carlos Flores Vizcarra wrote in a letter sent Monday to the county Board of Supervisors. Vizcarra believes the "highly publicized spectacle of ethnic prisoners is in clear violation" of the United Nation's Standard Minimum Rules for the Treatment of Prisoners and asks the board to "put a stop to these tactics."

Arpaio is an elected official and sets his own policies, but the board approves his funding. The supervisors are reviewing the county's potential legal fallout based on comments made by Maricopa County Attorney Andrew Thomas, who publicly opined: "racial and ethnic segregation by the government is unconstitutional."

"These practices are clear violations of the privacy laws, civil rights afforded by the U.S. Constitution and of longstanding standards of international treatment of prisoners," said Vizcarra's two-page letter.

(continued)

----------

Please also note that County Attorney Andrew Thomas is a close ally of Arpaio. For him to make such a stark declaration underscores the severity of Arpaio's abuse of human rights, laws and dignity in this situation.

Dude yourself. Sure I can Google. Seems to me (just an imo on my part), that you DEMAND proof from anyone who happens to hold an opinion against yours and if I recollect correct, you've made MORE than one demand for them there who oppose you to prove it by offering links/ studies/ "official" renderings on the subject at hand ---- but for you??? No. You ask that I Google to find out what you *claim*.

You can believe it or not --- but since you said you lived in the county in question, I believed you thus my question for *sources*. I figured if anyone had them it would be you, and what did you do?? You blew me off.

You may have credible sources proving what you said, but with that last post, you lost any and all credibility with me.

Try to live by what you preach, eh???

The difference? I did NOT, in this situation, directly or indirectly quote or refer to any source.

I -- LIVE -- in Maricopa County. OurPieHole is far too often in the news and usually it is for something that should shame him.

Unflippin believable with all this going on the citizens would re-elect Sheriff Joe with 83% of the vote. Is that number correct? 83%? Did the voters really do that? I don't have a dog in this show.

I have read how the sheriff treats those not yet convicted or been to trial the same as those who have. I don't think that is right.

I remember reading that the sheriff got his idea of pink from our state. The inside walls of a maximum security prison here are painted pink and the prisoners wear pink. That has been so for nearly 21 years. Supposedly, a study said pink has a calming effect.

NO that number is NOT correct for this last election.

YEARS ago, before very many people started catching on to his shenanigans, he had that high approval... but not now.

He barely won... and ONLY because he hits the nerve too many people have about illegal immigration.

He talks tough on doing what is the job of the federal government and people want to hear it regardless of whether it's within his charge by law.

And your sources for claiming so are . . . . . .??? (especially #'s 1 & 3).

Dude... all you gotta do is google...

I -- LIVE -- here (Maricopa County)

The guy can't keep his pie hole closed. That's why his name is Joe OurPieHole.

He's ALWAYS looking for cameras.

I don't need to prove anything to anyone.

But if you WANT to know, it's available for you to find.

Rocky is completely right. My sister in law lives in Maricopa county, and under the watch of "Sherriff Joe" the city has been successfully sued and cost the city great deals of money, crime is skyrocketing which he is doing nothing about, and he pulled people off of things like homicide to work immigration law (which often consists of arresting hispanic U.S. citizens for doing things like driving while hispanic, then expecting their families to bring birth certificates in to prove they aren't undocumented immigrants.) Phoenix is now the kidnapping capital of the U.S. because of his incompetence and failure to do anything about crime.

Sherriff Joe is a fascist who would be at home in WWII era Italy, except that he wouldn't even be capable of keeping the trains running. He is nothing but hype and has caused more problems than he has fixed. Painting prisons pink and forcing prisoners to live in tents in the desert sounds tough, but it is all just theatrics.

That is a FAIR characterization.

I have always been a HUGE fan of Sheriff Joe! I have no sympathy for scofflaws and it pains me that some of them in our fair state live better than those who have lost their jobs and homes or live in the inner city. Of course, here they would be wearing pink parkas and sweat pants in the cold tents! Hmmmm! Not a bad idea!

May God bless Sheriff Joe, and may his tribe increase!

WG

God will NOT bless Sherrif Joke. He can't keep his pie hole closed for two seconds.

His abusiveness is vast and deep and extends well beyond anyone who has been convicted of any crimes.

I live in Maricopa County AZ.

i love this sherrif

please send him to maine

and if you wern't in the big house,you wouldn't be "dehumanized"

learn your lesson,and when you get out get a job

and i don't mean selling crack

you f**ed up,now deal with it

I'd love for you to have him.

Not everyone in jail gets convicted.

Convicted prisoners should be treated with at least some degree of humanity.

Prisoners not yet convicted should only be kept from the possibility of doing any harm to society, pending trial.

I'm VERY glad God's view of people is vastly different than yours.

Maybe we should let Obama know,this could save us money.

Arpaio COSTS Maricopa county taxpayers more than what is on the books.

He has been successfully sued for numerous violations of laws and rights of prisoners.

He has caused harm and death to people who would not necessarily have been convicted.

Apraio used to have an 85+ percent approval rate.

He barely squeeked by in his last election. Many voters have come to realize the true facts about this evil man.