Rocky

btw, the persons who are allowed free reign on that site are particularly the fundamentalists, both christian fundamentist (read, extremist) AND political fundamentalists (read, extremists).

And the founder of that site has essentially adopted a practice of APPEASEMENT to wierwille apologists while denying that he is one himself... at the same time as he quickly and harshly shuts down anyone who criticizes TWI... AND anyone who dares to challenge the kind of political hate speech that we've been seeing in America, and which has, indeed been expressed on that WC social site, even to the end of encouraging and/or condoning illegal and violent acts against the government of the United States.

Btw, harking back to this editorial thread on TWI, and my previous "advocacy" for the WC social website, I wanted to now tell folks here that my view of that experience has changed.

The founder of that social website had quite a falling out with people on this site shortly after he started his site. While I still believe his intent was benign and noble, it is now nearly two years (and more than 1300 members) later and as things have evolved, it is clear to me that the founder of that site has gotten himself in over his head.

The rules and intent stated at the start was to keep that site's forums on subjects of a general nature, applicable to the community of members therein. His stated intent was to allow members to express themselves (more or less) freely on blogs that each member could post to his/her profile page and be responsible for, and control whether or not they wanted to allow feedback (comments in response).

At first, it was more freely. Now, for some it is more, and for some it is MUCH less.

For example, Penworks' outstanding analysis, which Penworks posted on that site, drew some responses... actually thoughtful responses.

However, the founder of that site, as soon as he caught wind of this brilliant analysis and those thoughtful responses -- SHUT IT DOWN.

This he has done a couple of times to me also.

If this topic is of interest, I can expand on it in it's own thread. But i think this much, since it involves a comment posted directly to this thread, which goes directly to the point of this thread, I hope I do not offend anyone by posting this here.

Needless to say, I have already gotten the "spiritual cold-shoulder" from the founder of that site.

Live goes on.

YET....I could easily make the arguement that wierwille was a narcissistic tyrant, plagairist, a sex predator, and devised the corps program for self-gain and exploitation.

The corps program was a bait-n-switch......and wierwille knew it.

By 1980, lots of good corps.....and plenty of wonderful faithful followers....were onto wierwille's trickery ONLY TO BE HAMMERED BY TWI'S BUREACRATIC FIST ONCE AGAIN.

As valid as those reflections are, I think Penworks' analysis is the very best I've ever seen or read.

The bottom line was that it was always about Wierwille's bottom line... but in terms of describing the organization and the experience for the follower, Penworks summarized, capsulized and put it in a nutshell brilliantly.

Thank you for clarifying what I was saying: we are basically in agreement. As far as more of a burden of proof being on the alleged perpetrator, I'm cautious about agreeing with you, not that I'm in favor of the perpetrator, but that it's very difficult to prove a negative, particularly in a he-said, she-said type of argument with little or no physical evidence being available (as a lot of harassment suits are).

During my time in the military and my time in the corporate world thereafter, I've had to take a whole lot of training on ethics subjects, to include sexual harassment. As a manager for a number of years (both military and civilian), I have learned to be extremely cautious that nothing I say or do could possibly be perceived as even approaching harassment, because of the already-existing "burden of proof" issues you mention. The basic assumption is where there's smoke, there's fire. And how the alleged victim feels about something is just as important as what actually happened. For example, if a female were to walk by your desk and look at your monitor and you had a picture of a scantily clad or nude woman on your monitor, you could be charged. Likewise, if a "victim" walked past a couple of people who were telling the wrong type of joke (not even realizing he/she was within earshot), both could be charged. Why? For creating a "hostile work environment." And that is considered a form of harassment nowadays.

I'm not saying that it is uniformly the same standard everyplace, but in both companies where I've worked since retiring, and in the Air Force since about the 90s, that has been the standard. (I personally know a 26 year E-9 who was forcibly retired due to him having a huge catalog of jokes and not using adequate discretion as to when and within earshot of whom to recount them)

As far as teachers and clergy, again, as far as accusations go, there is already a strong informal degree of guilt assumed when an accusation is made, due to the number of cases that have actually been dealt with. I actually sort of feel sorry for them, as this must change how they do their jobs significantly (I feel for the 98.4% who are good, honorable people whose ability to effectively do their jobs has been impacted by the 1.6% who have abused their positions -- stats are mine and are just for reference only). Take, for example, a clergywoman: dare she counsel a member of the opposite sex behind closed doors? What if the member of the opposite sex, upon receiving spiritual direction he does not wish to receive, decides to accuse the clergywoman of making an advance toward him? Or a teacher keeping a kid after school for tutoring? It's got to be in their minds, how do I protect myself...and that's got to make doing their jobs far more difficult. I could imagine that the same situation would exist with psychologists, as well.

As far as the bad ones, they need to be caught, prosecuted, and removed from their positions. But I don't want to advocate lowering the bar for proof so much that good, honorable ones get swept away with the bad ones.

Good points...

I don't think there's much difference between that and the naughty-teacher-syndrome. And, for that matter, I don't think there is that much difference between that and standard boss-subordinate sexual harassment.

I think it is more a matter of degree rather than type.

Of course, in those other scenarios, there is a dimension of power imbalance in the relationship that makes it very clear that consent is questionable at best. I don't disagree with you on this Mark, I'd just clarify that intimate relationships/relations between a teacher/student; a boss/subordinate; and clergy/parishioner should be explicitly stated in applicable ethical codes to be improper. Further, as applicable, if anyone needs to assert or provide proof that nothing in such a relationship took place improperly, the burden of proof would need to be on the teacher/boss/clergy member... at least when it came to any court action of a civil nature (as opposed to criminal), and that statutes can be amended to place MORE of the burden on the alleged perpetrator, if not all of the burden.

Baylor University researchers found the problem to be widespread...

by Jacqueline L Salmon

Washington Post Staff Writer

Thursday, September 10, 2009

One in every 33 women who attend worship services regularly has been the target of sexual advances by a religious leader, a survey released Wednesday says.

The study, by Baylor University researchers, found that the problem is so pervasive that it almost certainly involves a wide range of denominations, religious traditions and leaders.

"It certainly is prevalent, and clearly the problem is more than simply a few charismatic leaders preying on vulnerable followers," said Diana Garland, dean of Baylor's School of Social Work, who co-authored the study.

It found that more than two-thirds of the offenders were married to someone else at the time of the advance.

Carolyn Waterstradt, 42, a graduate student who lives in the Midwest, said she was coerced into a sexual relationship with a married minister in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America for 18 months. He had been her pastor for a decade, she said, and told her the relationship was ordained by God. (continued)

Do you know what day it is? (except for on the West Coast, then it's in an hour or two)...

It's 9-9-09

That's OK (about not having time to post), My post got to stay at the top for three weeks. Always good to hear about someone having a big reason to smileWe all want to be of value to others, and you certainly are.

Right on! (to both Lifted Up and niKa) :)

[quote name=notinKansasanymore' date='29 July 2009 - 11:15 AM' ti mestamp='1248891304' post='471939]

And speaking of Cash for Clunkers (see, I told you it's impossible to derail),there is no longer a beat-up, gas-guzzling Wowmobile in the niKa driveway. There's an inexpensive, gets-great-gas-mileage, something-reliable-to-commute-to-the-new-job-mobile.

And because of the stimulus plan, we can deduct the state and local sales taxes on it.

Interesting week.

Wooo-hooooo!

Karmic, still thinking about you, Sweet Lady.

WOO-HOO indeed!

And Karmic, me too!

Thank you for the kind words. I'm sorry I derailed the thread. We should talk about something else... How about the fact that my son, home from finishing his first year at University of Chicago, my 14 year old daughter, and my 11 year old son have hijacked the family room for the last 24 hours to watch "Christmas in July" on QVC. They definitely put life in perspective for me... That's not true they confuse the heck out of me, but I think they are so entertaining.

What about you? Ever watch/buy from QVC or the Home Shopping Channel?

Never have bought anything from QVC or HSN/C... what a wonderful bunch of kids you have there... and the oldest must be incredibly smart, going to the University of Chicago! :)

I think I am ready to tell someone, and since I've actually met a few of you and think so highly of our visits...

My son, Troy, passed away June 16, 2009. He was 27 and battled testicular cancer. He was Mini corps F-12. I am devasted...

Oh... (((((((Karmicdebt))))))), I'm SOOOOOO sorry. It is most understandable that you would feel that way.

We watched him from Viet Nam to the moon. His style, grace and honesty will be sorely missed by many. Infinitely preferable to the large breasted bubble brained moron script readers on modern "news" channels.

The Walter Cronkite School of Journalism at Arizona State University remembers it's namesake

Wow - 28 years since we were unleashed upon the unsuspecting world? Weren't most of us younger than that then? We were such sweet babies.

Indeed, most, but not all... I certainly was younger than 28, 28 years ago.

And now, we're such sweet . . . grownups!!

BTW today is the 28th anniversary of our 9th Corps graduation. Whoppee!

Chuck reminded me of that today. It's easy to remember because our 28th wedding anniversary is the 16th.

Gongrats to you and Chuck on 28 years (tomorrow)! :)

It was one hundred and four degrees here today, and this was a pretty typical day for us, lately.

Maaa-aan. If it doesn't move, I'm watering it.

Tomatoes love the heat, though, and they're getting big and red.

Happy Summer, everybody!!

114 here... it's like walking (or running, or bikeriding or driving) through a convection oven. :)

Hiway... I could be wrong, but I think Way8394WC17 was corps.

Exactly. The person asking about Mr. Bailey indicated he had graduated from the WC. Therefore, I indicated that he could find two persons with that name at the linked website. I gave no thought to how the info would help anyone other than the person who asked the initial question.

If the initial inquiry would have been from someone not having been in the WC, I would communicated something different and done so in a different manner... probably offering to pass along contact information from the inquirer to the person asked about, and probably would have done so privately.

I was s spiritual partner for Dave after I graduated the 17 corps. would like to track hi down if possible

There is more than one "David Bailey" at Way Corps social networking site.

I think it's because when some high profile celeb dies, it makes each of us more aware of our own mortality.

Heart attacks (one's own) can get the job done (making us keenly aware of that one's own mortality) pretty well... like some of us had last year...

The above was posted by two friends from another site.

May Ed, Farrah, and Michael all R.I.P.

Who decides when three particular deaths are appropriate for the "they come in three's" concept?

You know...

I liked Michael Jackson's stuff. The operative word there is "liked" - past tense.

He hasn't done much more than make controversy in the past 15 years or so.

While I'd never wish death on anyone, I certainly can't feel anything but a "meh" about his death.

Then again, I simply don't get the fascination with celebrities.

That pretty much says it all.

Yea, yesterday (Friday) around 4 pm.

NIKA, the obvious change refers to my gender. I hope I'm never a grandma! Rocky has it right.

I don't mind, personally, getting mixed up with Rocky! Politically that may be different, though he may not know it since I don't get much into that field.

How about when you get the "Grandma" title???

I always thought it was interesting that women you couldn't get close to getting their ages out of will brag to no end about being a grandma.

Just thought about that, since today or tomorrow I may gain that title, with one minor obvious change.

Being a grandpa just seems like it would be about the best thing in the world!

Whatever happened to the days when the burden of zoning enforcement fell on a government entity?

Privatization. End of story.

Btw, I escaped HOAland when I sold my house in 2005. I now live in a 55+ retirement/manufactured home community (even though I won't be old enough until later this year).

I own my home but rent the space. There's reasonable balance in power relationships here.

I'm late in joining this party but here is my two cents... I started a diet plan back in January. It was given to me by a personal trainer/nutritionist. Basically it is high protein and green veggies, low-low-low carbs, no fat, no salt, and tons of water, all broken into several small meals each day. This we did for three weeks, then once a week we added a low-glycemic, high fiber carb meal so the body didn't go into "starvation" mode for the rest of the program (a total of eight weeks). Then you go off the strict diet just to give yourself a mental break. You can go back after two weeks if you want.

For exercise, three times a week we would go to the gym and warm up with cardio, then do weight-training to build muscle mass, then warm down with cardio. Three other days we were asked to do something cardio for 30 minutes. And we were told to take one day off a week.

We kept track of our pounds and inches lost. All of us in the program got amazing results!! And while I haven't done the actual diet or exercise plan since, I still eat several small meals a day, drink almost nothing but water, and stay active. I have not gained anything back, in fact I've continued to lose about a pound a month.

The whole package, he told us, comes down to this: get your metabolism cranking, feed your body the right balance of healthy stuff so it knows it doesn't have to hold onto the fat it has stored, and build muscles (they burn more calories than other tissues or fat does). If you can do all those things at the same time, you WILL lose weight and prime your body to keep it off down the road. I am convinced he knows what he is talking about... I am 25 pounds down, and ready to start working on the next 25!!

Congrats to everyone here who is doing whatever they need to do to lose weight and get healthy!!!!

THW

Same insight has been shared on this thread repeatedly. It works.

People have obtained said insight in various ways, but it all really boils down to that. And in the long run, to keep it off, a person will have to develop eating habits beyond any structured diet.

Congrats. :)

The entire concept of HOAs is UNAMERICAN.

These breeding grounds for annoying neighbors (the ones who want to lord it over the rest) are, by virtue of their inherent structure, both FASCIST and COMMUNIST.

I will not debate the merits of any given issue regarding HOAs... I simply believe they should be completely BANNED in America.

However, they will not be banned anytime soon. The reason they have quietly become the dominant form of quasi-municipal government is because they provide and insidiously quiet way to "raise taxes" for municipal services.

Of course, none of them want to be known or defined as such, but allowing homeowners to be taxed with little to no voice or oversight, practically speaking, is the secret they want kept hidden.

The false label of "free market" choices being made by informed homebuyers is complete BUNK.

In most cities in the US these days, there is almost NO new housing being built (for single family ownership) WITHOUT an HOA in place.

I am within lbs of my ideal weight. I've lost right about 150 lbs since this thread started. My goal was a line from a Beatles' Song, "I'm just half the man I used to be" I was about a 55 inch waist and now comfortably wear 36 inch waist pants. I've gone from only being able to shop at Big and Tall Shops to not being allowed in.

Rocky, your info made me think of what one of my students related to me. She and her husband lived in Scotland for 5 years while he worked on his PhD. They visited many places in Europe. When they returned to the U. S. it was culture shock acclimating to the mega this and that from department stores to restaurants. She said the Europeans would never believe the portions served in restaurants here in the U. S.

I can understand that. There are a couple of times in my life when I've undergone some culture shock.

I spent about 3 years on a small island in the Atlantic Ocean (Terceira, Azores). When I returned to the US it was significantly shocking.

In my mid 20s, I spent a year (as a WOW) in a small town in northern Ohio. When I returned to real life in Phoenix, AZ after that, I was REALLY shocked, culturally.

===========

Anyway, two other important American food industry items to note:

a new documentary movie is scheduled for release in June (in selected cities), titled Food, Inc.

and (apparently released in 2008) another book, In Defense of Food by Michael Pollan.

=========

Btw, I have found myself feeling wonderfully liberated (from my appetite) since I started reading Kessler's book.