Rocky

So, Sky, are you saying equality is not a worthy ideal?

Why was he turned away from twi hq?

The information on audio and video tapes is coded by way of magnetic processes. A large magnet can destroy the message on the tapes.

Holy crap!

Subtlety indeed. VERY insightful thread. THIS is the essence of twi being a cult.

And yet, how long did it take any of us to figure it out... at least enough to decide it was not what we were going to do with the rest of our lives.

For me, it took 12 years. And it's been 25 or so years SINCE. Yet, it remains a major aspect of life between my ears...

Young adults are so vulnerable...

Thankfully, the naivete eventually faded for many of us.

Wanda Wierwille and Howard Allen are engaged.....now, please stay calm and proceed back to whatever you were doing.

What'd did he do with Emogene?

They removed Glucophage from my prescription list..

well, for the third year I weigh in at about 203 pounds. maybe that is my natural weight.. it is barely a *tad* above what a 6'0 in the morning person in height should weigh.. but the cumulative blood sugar measurement is better than somebody who is perfectly healthy..

I weighed about 250 when I went in with blood sugar problems. It's amazing how much difference 45 pounds makes..

Where do we go from here.. I dunno.

Aerobic exercise. Minus the drug. not to mention.. enough garlic, cinnamon, vitamin A and D.. Chromium.. plus.. EXERCISE. I think the last thing on the list has done to most..

even a stinking twenty minute walk through Michigan snow and ice in a day.

In the comfort of your own home... well, at least not having to go out in the snow and ice...

I bought one of these, got it set up on Sunday, using it every day so far. Clearly getting a workout. 30 minutes today and heart rate and respiration in good exercise range for extended aerobic workout.

VERY comfortable to ride. Easy to assemble (with two people).

Gold's Gym Power 390 recumbent exercise bike.

They had $54 million in 2008, according to the last public balance sheet from the state of Arizona.

This might also be picky, but the balance sheet referred to is -- on file with the state of Arizona's Corporation Commission -- not "from the state of Arizona. To my understanding, it was not an audited statement, just something that a couple of the corporate officers signed, possibly under (threat of) penalty of perjury. Nobody checks those, for the most part.

Hey, Rocky......what's with the political jab?

If politics were to enter this discussion, I'm sure there are others who would counter

that by saying "So.....in 2008, did God call Obama to the office of US President?"

Religion and Politics......Beware of the leaven of the hierarchy!!!

I'm not remembering Obama having claimed any call from God to be president. My comment was intended to show a couple of people who have laid claim to said calling when it appears they are just a good bit full of themselves.

God Almighty called me to the WAY CORPS!

Yeah, and God called W to be president... and now he's calling Michelle O'Bachman and Rick Santorum to be president.

I listened to about seven or eight minutes. It felt to me like there was a very serious narcissistic overtone. In my life these days, I write and a think in terms of what will make sense to my readers or listeners. I may describe (I DO describe) things I've observed and what it means to the people I am writing or speaking to. But Victor was always speaking about what he was doing. The implied meaning being that he was doing the will of God. The subtext was adoration of the MOG rather than empowerment of his listeners.

I don't think there is a "right" way to go about leaving them. We owe them nothing, not even an explanation. In some ways I think not giving them an explanation is a statement that a person is taking their freedom back and denying the way international authority they don't rightfully posses in the first place.

Agree. I also don't think there is a wrong way to leave either. As long as it is on your own terms.

On Sunday, I met Another Dan (facebook friend Dan Haas) face to face for the first time. We've chatted many times online. It was a joy to get to see each other's face. I also met a few more former followers of twi (and former way corps). We shared a few war stories and the joys of grandchildren. For me, 2011 has been a fruitful year, bountiful and greatly enjoyed. I established a brand and a widely read blog with the vision to grow to have a wider reach with an expanded team effort in 2012 and beyond.

I'm excited for the path I see in front of me. Those who want to pop in from time to time to check on my progress can find me at "Arizona Eagletarian"

It doesn't really other than he was always saying to "speak the truth".

There are several places where he seems to have had a real problem with truth, and stretched, changed, alterred or just plain made things up for some reason or another.

Re: snow on the pumps

I dont really care all that much if he met Barth or not, maybe he did, maybe he didnt....just asking to see if anyone has catalogued this.

VP had such flights of fantasy its hard to tell where he told the truth and where he didnt.....

Much of his reality, and what he taught his followers to emulate, was an illusion that he created around himself.....something that many followers and those that were exposed to him still do

good points.

Source- http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Karl_Barth

According to the wikipedia article on Barth, he lectured at Princeton Theological Seminary in 1962. That is where Vicster supposedly got his Masters in Theology, albeit I think a bit earlier than that (???). Perhaps he went to one of those lectures, or one at the University of Chicago in 1962.

This is an interesting note in the Wiki article too:

hmm given that Vic liked the JBS and other neo-Nazi-like organizations I guess VPW did not listen to everything Barth said.

While not endorsing Communism by any means, Barth did not like the Church getting so wrapped up in its hate towards Communism and Socialism,

@Ham- with Weirwille's German background he should have known better regarding the German "th". It is pretty much always pronounced as a "t". I feel certain he did not spend any significant time with Barth. Probably a handshake in a receiving line after a lecture or something.

also very good points.

Why does it matter? We do know that he "borrowed" ideas from plenty of other people. a quick look at the wikipedia article on Barth shows that he was widely respected as a great 20th century philosopher/theologian who put several unconventional ideas forth. It's not unreasonable to figure he met the guy, whether Barth thought it was a big deal or not.

Btw, how EVIL is the concept of the "doulos?" Slave to the Lord in concept but slave to the TWI hierarchy in practice. No thank you. The entire concept, as I recall (having left twi 25 years ago) as it was taught and practiced, was counter to the dignity of the individual, made a mockery of free will and engendered mental laziness (since the doulos only had to follow orders, not figure things out for her/himself).

Yeah.....I caught that oversight as well when I re-visited my post.

Perhaps, I should have just added another category as......some found a new direction.

Thus, it would be an all-inclusive sector for those who changed faiths, rejected any

faith/religion, divorce, lifestyle changes, aspiring to a higher calling, desiring to

find solitude and peace, society involvement, political activist, high on life, bitter

from twi-past, health enthusiast, etc.........or dead.

I should know, by now, that when a list is put out there......someone gets left out.

Yeah, that would cover it. :)

From my twi tenure.....clearly, my twi-"friends" cover the vast continuum of the spectrum.

Some are at the highest levels of staff positions at twi's headquarters....

Some have joined splinter groups and taken up their banner....

Some have found a local church that they absolutely enjoy....

Some have found solace in scripture reading, prayer and family-centered joys...

Some have self-destructed and their lives are now in shambles...

Life swiftly moves on.....and for many, twi is but a faint memory.

Might some have found new direction in their lives without being involved in a local church, solace in scripture reading, prayer and family-centered joys?

Transitions in life can bring upheaval and life can seem for a time like it's in shambles. Emerging from those times, a man or woman can find new direction for service and meaning and a higher calling outside of what social and religious structures he or she had become familiar (and comfortable) with. Ultimately, finding a life's calling in service to something bigger than yourself, be it God, service to society or whatever.

For a few years, I attended a church and became close with an assistant pastor who had known a few others who had been involved with twi. Eventually, that church grew to be a weary experience for me. I'm happy and believe I've found my calling, at least for now. But am not involved with any church or ministry.

Perhaps.....a cult leader's mission is closely aligned with the goals of a community organizer. To get others involved, one has to stir and agitate. As the group becomes more "like-minded".....unity and commitment intensify.

Yep....Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" comes to mind.

For Alinsky, organizing is the process of highlighting whatever he believed to be wrong and convincing people they can actually do something about it. The two are linked. If people feel they don't have the power to change a situation, they stop thinking about it.

According to Alinsky, the organizer — especially a paid organizer from outside —must first overcome suspicion and establish credibility. Next the organizer must begin the task of agitating: rubbing resentments, fanning hostilities, and searching out controversy. This is necessary to get people to participate. An organizer has to attack apathy and disturb the prevailing patterns of complacent community life where people have simply come to accept a situation.

Not all community organizers take things to that extreme. And, btw, anyone who was politically to the left of Attila the Hun was also demonized by Wierwille... and that much continues with many former followers.

Thanks Ham. :)

Yep....wierwille cherry-picked verses that aligned with his "live as you fool please" lifestyle AND distorted other verses to obfuscate their true meaning. While he highlighted the NO CONDEMNATION aspect of the verse.....he would NOT clarify that being "in Christ Jesus" would clearly mean NO SINNING.

IMO.....EVERYTHING wierwille ever taught was distorted to fit his self-serving and sinful lifestyle. Every vpw-teaching is suspect to perversive twists and turns to move boundaries and seduce.

A false teacher does that.

Nailed it.

It's a HUGE part of the equation. Yet, Rosie and the gang are oblivious to the obvious. First off, they don't want honest feedback from field way corps. When I was way corps I kept in contact with several people who were branch and limb level folks and all of them said that the internet was killing them. The common theme goes like this "We witnessed to so and so and they were really excited at least until they got home and googled the way international." This info either never makes it to Rosie or she doesn't think the internet is relevant enough to matter, even though it's been killing them slowly for years. (or both)

That's tremendous. This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine! And by God it's going to dispel darkness.

And.....I tend to believe, that not only do the newly-witnessed people check the internet and come across the Greasespot Cafe website, BUT advanced class grads and corps have been reading too!

I mean, really....after years of seeing pathetic numbers in class registration, major events, sunday teachings, corps sign-ups, etc. its hard to ignore the OBVIOUS: Twi is dying out. No longer do the cliches and propaganda work to deceive the people. Greasespot Cafe tells the other side, the evil, of twi.

Living well......AFTER TWI......is the greatest revenge, and testimony.

Amen and amen!

Lately, I've seen a sort of inverse of this same thing. Some people seem to be revisiting/revitalizing their current beliefs and opinions to coincide with their old Way beliefs, despite their extended absence from the actual organization. Maybe this stuff is like a virus that you can never really get rid of.

You can get rid of a lot of it. Enough to where you can live a life that is not dominated by habits and rituals (yes, there were rituals) of life in TWI. And you can keep what you want to keep.

Prove all things, hold fast that which is good. :)

There is a lot of diversity of paths taken and beliefs held by people after twi. And I think that's wonderful.

And......the scriptures pinpoint "compartmentalizing" as a FALSE doctrine.

Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

I'm not suggesting otherwise concerning a ministry. However, actual trees DO compartmentalize and when the overall tree is vigorous and healthy, the diseased part is isolated (compartmentalized) and the tree might still produce fruit. It is just an observation on trees, not intended to be a rationalization or justification of anyone's behavior.

And people DO compartmentalize also. I'm not sure it's something that you can teach people not to do as individuals.

...Some may go the denial route, but many will be left ferreting out how so much good and so much evil can be delivered by the same man...

It's the concept of compartmentalization.