Rocky

Religion sucks.

I wish them all well too.

After re-reading what I wrote I fear I may have cast Tim in a bad light. He is a great person and a kind man. I merely meant that I felt people treat him stand-offishly because the looks like LCM and he may remind them of him unfairly via resemblance and personality and that can bring up uneasy or bad feelings, obviously not his doing and not his fault. I only have positive memories of all 3 Martindale kids and hope they are healthy and happy.

According to the Sidney Daily News, July 5, 2013, (page 8) Dorothy graduated from Ohio State in May 2013 with a Bachelor of Science in Social Work, Summa Cum Laude.

Speaking as a person that's run his own company for the last 20 years...

They had everything. No taxes. Great profit margin. Free labor. Free advertising. Dedicated and committed workforce.

And they fsked it up big-time. If the had kept their dicks in their pants and spoke the truth, we'd still be coming to ROA 2015.

Have you got a mouse in your pocket?

Why even believe in God at all if He can't even give the increase on your ABS? What CAN God do if He can't do that?

VP said it best. He said 9/10 with God's blessings on it will go farther than 10/10ths without. He also said tithing without recognition of God's goodness and love is sheer folly. What, exactly, is 'recognition of God's goodness and love'? How about just taking time to be thankful for stuff. I can be as grumpy and whiny as anybody, but there's much to be thankful for. Every single day is a gift from God.

If God doesn't directly do anything to bless your life, then religion is vain. All you get from going to church is the same false moral superiority that the guy gets from going to the bar. No difference.

Teaching you that concept "VP said it best." was how the guy made his living. The more people he could pull the wool over their eyes, with that schtick, the more money Wierwille made.

Incarceration is pretty much a big business now.. with corresponding privatization.

cheap labor..

the State pays for housing, food..

It's all about the first part of the 13th amendment to the US Constitution.

Not just cheap labor, but slavery.

.....then I have a few questions.

1) Are twi-innies STILL called "Followers of The Way?"

Back in the '70s and early-'80s, I remember hearing this a lot. At one time, it was the public relation definition in their promotions....ie "A follower of The Way is filled with, and manifests, power from on high and freely avails himself (blah, blah, blah)...." Of course, the double-reference meaning.....a follower of the way incorporated [FIRST] and, oh yeah, a follower of The Way, the Lord Jesus.

But then.....if sort of evolved into this GROUP IDENTITY THING, where in unison they all were "the true household" and needed to cross over the bridge together. The individual component dropped.....and the groupthink wording took its place.

2) If the corps program is a LEADERSHIP program, then why did twi drop the terminology of Trunk leaders Region leaders, Branch leaders and Twig leaders?

So...let me get this straight: corps get trained as LEADERS, but then after graduation and all...they revert back to coordinators or something? By definition, isn't coordinator someone in a structural position to "arrange and adjust things in harmony" as ordered? Doesn't a wedding coordinator simply follow thru with the instructions given by the wedding couple, those who are paying for the services?

So, really.......the corps program is a COORDINATOR PROGRAM whereby if twi were honest, the trainee [once graduating from program] is submitting to a lifetime of taking orders from hierarchy.

3) If Words Matter......and they do......then twi is telling you EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THEIR SELF-SERVING MISSION.

The Way Ministry, The Way Household, The Way Corps, The Way Magazine, Way Disciples, .....etc. etc. Even the sanctity of "The Way Tree" teachings/class/logo was allowed to die on the vine because twi could no longer justify its biblical essence. It was given the "we don't talk about that anymore."

Also.....No inspiring pictures of Jesus Christ, no pictures of crucifixion or resurrection, or apostles, or the Lord's supper, or the Sea of Galilee, etc. Twi is void of inspiration artwork. Thereby, the nebulous and evolving nature of "words" are like sand shifting under one's feet.

Even the "Corps Chalet" has devolved into a generic, non-descript cabin in the woods.

Today's twi has become about as non-descript in their abundant living brochures

as their single-wide, dilapidated trailer units hidden at the back of the property.

By golly, it looks like you broke the code. You've figured out the real meaning of the vocabulary and how it's used. Congratulations.

Does the name Ernest Angley ring any bells?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2014/10/14/tv-evangelist-accused-of-running-cult.html

By the way, Sky... I wholeheartedly agree with your analysis on "spiritual protocol" being an indoctrination mechanism.

When we got suckered into twi the whole culture of the times was different. In general, people were more trustworthy, so that when a promise like what twi made we expected it would be fulfilled. It was beyond our belief that we could be duped. Today, that's not the case. The culture of the times today is not one of general trust. People are much more cautious so I doubt anything like twi tried to project on us, would't have the same effect on the populace.

If only...

For the last eight years I have been a wedding officiant in the Midwest. My wife and I have officiated at close to 400 weddings during that time, including for one of my Grease Spot buddies in 2012.

We advertise locally and on the internet and are occasionally pleasantly surprised that someone we know calls or emails us about performing their wedding ceremony. A few months ago I agreed to do a wedding for a young man whose parents had been in The Way when I was. His mother had taken PFAL in my house in 1981 and she and her then-husband had been in the same Twig as I during the 90's. I knew this guy since he was a toddler.

The wedding was today. At the rehearsal last night the groom's mother and her new husband were there - she was very nice to me - I did not ask her if she was still involved in The Way, although I think she is. At the ceremony today I spotted the local Twig Coordinator, his wife and another couple who had been involved when I was kicked out in 2001. They did not see me...until I walked up the aisle with the groom...the looks on their faces were great! Shock...surprise...changing to frowns as I read a service that was "off the Word" in so many aspects. I left immediately after and did not interact with them at all.

Sometimes it's just great to be me!

Did you see smoke coming out of their ears? :confused:/>

so far i haven't been invited but i haven't check just recently

either howard is lazy or i'm not let in because i won't use my real name. well, i don't want it that bad i guess

i heard all hell broke loose for regular wayferish reasons -- it's a "social network" as long as you love V - prucking - W

and ralph is the savior and if you don't think so bye bye stuff like that. big surprise barf lol

I understand you are also new to Facebook overall. It takes some effort to establish your identity in that social network.

That's not for wayferish reasons. In order for people to trust you, they have to know you're really who you say you are.

There has been an epidemic of people establishing fake/duplicate FB profiles to steal people's identities.

To play devil's advocate for a moment, for the people who, in that group, to feel safe spilling their guts, they probably become less than comfortable when someone shows up or tries to show up

and won't identify themselves.

I'm not in that group, so I don't know anything more specific than that broad general concept. And I'm not friends with the Howard who moderates the group.

green card comment priceless

i know howard i think i tried to find him but there were so many of them i didn't know which one

where the heck is he from

ps. hello garth lol

Ohio. Don't know if he's living there now, but I visited him in Dayton in the late 1990s.

that's the only reason i'm interested

so who can invite me?

Howard W*lker is the administrator, if you know him.

If it's a "closed group", only members of the group can see it.

It's a secret group. That's even more private than "closed."

You're supposed to use your real name on Facebook. But if you join that group, what you post to it can only be read by those in the group.

Search engines can't find that information.

I only know about it because for a time I was a member (it's been a couple of years). I got tired of the politics of people like Ralph G and Jeff W***ace. JW and some others still thought/think TWI is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

From what others have told me about recent history in the group, it took going through quite a bit of turbulence to emerge from the heavy handed "only say nice things about TWI" BS originally imposed by the founder of the group. That founder had also started the WC Ning website that stirred things up here at GSC in 2008/2009.

I still don't have a desire to rejoin the group, but as I understand it, several women have been relieved that they've had the opportunity to share their own real life experiences with wierwille and/or martindale.

The link...you may have to ask Howard Walker (new moderator) for permission to join, if you can't find it....he's on facebook

Way Corps FaceBook Group

It's a secret group. That means it isn't subject to search engines cataloging the posts. The only way you can become a member is if you are invited.

You can be invited by any member, but might have to be approved by Walker.

I'm not a member but have several who are.

Excie- true dat! haha (((mwah)))

Kit- I will lovingly disagree with you on some of the past teachings validity of truth and who the Holy Spirit is talking to today. I'm finding some on the list you named give me shuddering bad vibes.

Maybe it's just me.

But, you are right, Vic was a theif....

"You can't out give God" was just the schtick of a con man squeezing all the money he could from hard working believers.

Kit, indeed from a spiritual perspective, there may be some good in it for those not looking for material abundance.

Why would any of you want to be someone other than who you are now?

After watching "The Hunt" last night with John Walsh, I must say I was a little disappointed. They never mentioned Barnard's affiliation with twi and it was so apparent that he was heavily influenced by them. They profiled Barnard from the time he started his own cult until the present...no background whatsoever. I'm wondering if twi threatened a lawsuit if they mentioned them on TV...

Other than that, they portrayed Barnard as a lying scum bag pedophile...but they could have done better.

Consider that The Hunt was not aiming to bust TWI.

There will be plenty of time and media coverage on his background once Barnard is apprehended.

I think most folks would say "if I had a kid who got rid of all that so quickly – there must be something wrong with that boy." Yeah, that would be a big red flag to parents. If the "Almost Famous" movie could mention a second message of parental guidance to kids besides "don't do drugs" I think it should be "don't join cults".

A wonderful idea.

Why does ANYONE care what Raf believes? Why does anyone care what johniam believes? Bottom line, Raf came to change his beliefs and shared what that means to him and how he reasoned it out. Nobody else's beliefs are jeopardized by a person doing that, are they?

Where is my shoutbox?

Did you leave it in the bathroom?

I think Oakspear's comment (#35 on this thread) hit the nail on the head. Christians or any other religion that claims "to know" for certainty anything is only peddling BS.

When she discussed the Parkinson's Disease, I believe his wife also said his sobriety was intact.

Personally - - I wish that so much of this was not released via the press to the general public. The family and closest friends have asked for privacy but it seems the Press thinks they're giving privacy when they don't interview the family! All these interviews playing so often over the airwaves must be tearing those family and friends to shreds. I know that this is a free country.....but I also know that my liberties end where yours begin.....at least that's what I was taught in civics class.

I'm very glad that folks are becoming more aware mental illnesses and what some of them entail. But I wish these discussions were separated out in the "distance" of time.

You made several good and important points. Sobriety intact. That's good to know. Hearing about PD may cause some to grasp that Robin was facing a stressful time in his life and knew his future would be difficult. but suicide is not a rational decision people make (almost always, I figure). For someone so gregarious and seemingly open, so much of him was quiet and withdrawn. He had to have impressive skills at keeping his pain hidden. I'm not so sure that was a good thing.

I, too, appreciate the info newlife posted.

The news stunned me as it did millions of people all over the world. He touched hundreds of millions of people with the healing balm of laughter. Besides that, he was such a warm and kind man. All humanity lost a part if its heart when Robin died. And it was and is a tremendous loss for American culture.

You made several good and important points. Sobriety intact. That's good to know. Hearing about PD may cause some to grasp that Robin was facing a stressful time in his life and knew his future would be difficult. but suicide is not a rational decision people make (almost always, I figure). For someone so gregarious and seemingly open, so much of him was quiet and withdrawn. He had to have impressive skills at keeping his pain hidden. I'm not so sure that was a good thing.

I, too, appreciate the info newlife posted.

The news stunned me as it did millions of people all over the world. He touched hundreds of millions of people with the healing balm of laughter. Besides that, he was such a warm and kind man. All humanity lost a part if its heart when Robin died. And it was and is a tremendous loss for American culture.

I also feel for his family. For them, this tragic, trying time is no doubt more stressful because of the media attention. But because he touched so many lives, "we" needed to know how this all could have happened.

I am glad that people here on GreaseSpot Cafe oppose a liar like Victor Barnard, but again I am amazed that people around this person or that knew this person and knew what he was doing when he was doing it, but did not see this as wrong and harmful and oppose this person.

It is amazing that there exists such clandestine, insidious psychological manipulation that members of the group couldn't detect it or cause the perpetrator to be called to account.

There are records suggesting some tried but got pushed out of RRF. They weren't a match for the sociopathic Mr. Barnard.

Barnard will be John Walsh's target on The Hunt on CNN this coming Sunday (Aug 24).

Click the link for a 30-second preview on YouTube.

Glad to see this thread brought back up to the top...had fun reading it.

It's hard for me to imagine how anyone ever took Geer seriously...outside of cult indoctrination that is. Seems that after the cornfield preacher was finally planted under the fountain, his most ardent disciples started playing musical chairs with the tools of group think methodology. The only problem was that when the music finally stopped, there were no more chairs to sit in. The end result of course was that those who thought they could pull it off started their own game with the portion of the cult that they could sneak out the back door with and rename.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice and it's time for a complete mental overhaul at a rehab clinic. The real losers of this experiential mind f**k are the ones who are still doing the back stroke in the septic tank of delusional mental illness. God is personal to each of us and shame and disgrace upon all those who turn it into a business.

Preach it, Brother Groucho!