Rocky

The molestation is a big deal, no question. A far bigger issue, though, is how a concerted effort was carried out for 10 years to sweep it under the rug. Even the state police were involved. The TV series is a high revenue producing franchise. In addition, the Duggars represent a fundamentalist organization (Family Research Council) that preaches the values of honesty, purity and chastity. Not only is a loss of revenue at stake, hypocrisy looms ominously over their heads. Now, it seems that the police report has been uncharacteristically destroyed. Fortunately for us, nothing ever really disappears from the internet.

HERE is the police report, all 33 pages of it.

edit: I chose this particular source because it ironically represents a part of our society (LGBT) that Family Research Center rails against.

FRC is a Dominionist organization (as well as being fundamentalist).

I would hate to think of how much grief I would get if my teenage misadventures came to light.

How many adult males are 'pure' of the sin of fondling a female not their wife? I am not pure of that sin. Let alone back when I was a kid.

Did you participate in sexual activity with people more than a year or so younger than you?

If not, then it's not the same thing as in this situation with a highly public family.

Additionally, I don't think bickering over the semantics regarding the relative evil of molesting vs intercourse is really relevant to the discussion... unless the intercourse resulted in pregnancy. Otherwise, it's still sexual activity most likely in violation of state laws, depending on which state they are or were living in.

This might only be sorta kinda on topic.

It's not just something you get over... -- Leah Remini

On the subject of her leaving the church of scientology... two years ago now.

I bet there are plenty of former wayfers who understand what she means.

I realize the intent/mission of GSC: bash twi. In monitoring, this forum has drawn the most passion I have seen for some time on a forum thread, the renewal of the bashing, don't get me wrong, it's well deserved but after this length of time, I simply ask, is it maybe time to bury the hatchet and move onto a new course - a new mission.

There is so much knowledge, Biblical and other by the long standing folks here, what if that knowledge and energy where put to more efficient use...

NO, I am not here to try and highjack anything but in all honesty, it is for mine, and hopefully others, enlightenment.

A MIND IS A TERRIBLE THING TO WASTE - how's that for crappy humor?

Here's the rub, MRAP. YOU have your perspective and you're welcome to it. BUT... who the h e l l are you to say whether anyone else's energy and knowledge is misspent? Isn't that sort of overly arrogant of you?

That and that you believe your insight will provide enlightenment for anyone else. Okay, I think maybe my insight MIGHT enlighten others. But if I think my insight is NECESSARILY the right insight for anyone else, wouldn't that be just narcissistic?

I put my thoughts out there for others to read. If THEY decide what I have offered is useful to them, that's wonderful. I'm confident, however, that there are plenty of people who read what I write and think I'm off my rocker.

And that's just fine with me.

One of the primary subculture problems with twi was that others, primarily in the "chain of command" thought and acted as if whatever they decided (because it must have been revelation from God) I should do, they had a right to demand I do.

That's just f***ed up.

And that you expressed these concepts (multiple times), judging the words and actions of other posters here at GSC as somehow deficient, improper or otherwise not as efficient as they should have been in their lives, might (a word to the wise, etc.) help you to have the light come on in your mind as to why people respond(ed) to you they way they have and they do.

Okay, so you were a lifer in the military. Good for you. I served one enlistment, so I got a taste of military life. There is NO chain of command at GSC. There is no chain of command in life, unless you specifically choose (or are unlucky enough to have found yourself unwillingly in) an organization so structured.

Put plainly, you have no right and no standing to pass judgment on anyone here.

As if, waysider. The guy was, at the very least, a narcissist. Probably a sociopath. Neither are inclined toward self examination.

Probably?

Nice to see you again, Skyrider. :)

I concur wholeheartedly.

You...you mean the snow on the gas pumps story wasn't real????

Well, shut the front door. Next thing you'll be saying is that his doctorate was phony.

Ladies and gentlemen, it's been a DISGRACE to have been in this fellowship this evening!!

One of the best things I learned in my early days of recovery at the cafe was that everyone has a different reality based on their own individual experiences in life, and that IT IS OK if we don't all experience the world, or even the shared cult experience the same way. Someone else's opinion may be different from mine, someone else's beliefs may differ from mine. It's ok if I don't agree, and it's ok if they don't agree with me. I can still respect that person, care for that person, and treat them well, even while disagreeing.

It think it's pretty nifty. I like being kind. It's pretty awesome.

But then again, I'm not an "old Catholic" yet... At 42, I still think I'm pretty young. Right? />

However, I still reserve the right to turn those trying to sell me religion away if I have better things to do - like laundry, or drinking a peaceful cup of coffee, or petting the cat, or playing with my kid, or spending time with my husband, or watching Game of Thrones.

You certainly are still young. :) You were an infant when I first was introduced to twi at age 19.

I pretty much got the jist on this site: not too many folks take the word seriously BUT there are a few that do. What follows is not directed to those who are not "nay sayers".

So really you majority of GSC posters, you know who you are and hopefull know yourselves: can you possibley address issues in a non condesending manor, hate to say it, but I think not. This site has imploded, nothing new, most hits are on "tell me the quote of that movie or song". Really good folks, is that all you are good for. When I came onto this site and laid myself out there you jumped on me like raw meat - think about it. Anyone who monitors this site sees your actions - no wonder I was the last person to join back in March of the year and no one since. Really, how many new folk have entertained themselves on this site in recent years? You regulars for the last 15 years, you have made yourselves inaccessible, alot because you have made yourselves into a clique. You see, if you have been around for years, you are quite personable to each other - not a way to entreate newby's (they see it). Things I have been ostrized for as disrespectfull (making short of names) I have observed by veteran GSC members. There should be no such thing as earning your wings.

I honestly have learned alot on this site - had to sift through alot of the nasty bull to get to it (some of you just talk/write way too much before you ever get to the point and at times, get so consumed in your own discertation that you never get there). Yet, I am more than blessed to have found GSC, what you all take as common knowledge (given you backgrounds that I respect) I just suck it up - good stuff.

So, like I told Raf a while back, you can all discommunicate me - or whatever the secular religious word is for "throw out". Oh, discommunicate is actualy a very acurate word, because anytime MRAP appears on a Forum or sub formum, there is no response from the seniors. Now if it's on the doctrinal forum, then there are some learned responses but not from the seniors (you old folks) unless it is of a smacking nature.

It's been fun also, watching how older Christian women and men become vicious. I thought that was only indicative of old Catholic men and women - well, you proved me wrong.

Now I am not perfect but what I have said, those are just observations from an old and learned man. You folk need to become self aware if you want new folk to learn from your vast knowledge and experience: become more accessable and drop the clique syndrome that is overly obvious. Now, if you don't care, then screw it. I KNOW, this is a recovery site for injured Way Folk; when's the last time this site accomplished that edict in the GSC mission statement?

Yes, as a true brother, I have been honest, I have praised and pointed out problems and accepted my own frailty in making such statements. You are all a very special people, you are my brothers and sisters but you are more than that to me because of a common pain and enlightenment. So please, take this from an old man with a true heart who cares for you, your mission and appreciation for the friendship that you share with one an other - that is the true phileo.

Of course, that's not necessarily the thread topic, but hey, why not set forth (probably a bit less awkward if you had started a new thread dedicated to setting forth your observations) what you have seen and how you put it all together in your perception?

Your perception/observation/opinion is just as valid as anyone else's. I don't agree with it or see it the same way, but that's okay.

The only concern I'd have with what you said above is to be careful in making heavy handed judgment of people. Your perspective is not the only valid way to look at it all.

As to the GSC mission, I wouldn't worry so much about it. The information on peoples' experiences with TWI, Martindale and Wierwille have been spelled out in painstaking detail. People who come here can take it or leave it, just as you can.

Nobody's getting paid to advance the mission, whatever that mission may be. So, as a message board, GSC has provided a forum for people to both express and read about their own and other people's experience. That's really all it's about as I see it.

It's been real. :)

Thank you for giving us yourself. You will be missed.

I think some people are bothered by this sort of thing because we, as human type creatures, have an innate desire to be the one who is "right".

(But I could be wrong.)

Especially as former twi followers. Most humans, however, have an even stronger desire to belong.

Not. Any. More. (pop pop fizz fizz oh what a relief it is...)

I can say AMEN to that! :)

Why would I care what anyone else believes about God? Unless they were harming people...

I do, but the writer apparently doesn't think so.

And there was a legitimate point about loss of compassion in there.

Superficially, perhaps it seems like a stretch to connect.

Indeed, the loss of compassion is legitimate and connected.

For people who might be interested in exploring the sociological and psychological issues beneath the surface,

let me remind you of the Stanford Prison Experiment.

Of course, we know that the New Testament explicitly states that the love of money is the root of all evil.

But really, how robust is the human understanding of what the "love of money" entails?

Could it be that when the love of money (a significant Wierwille motivation, most likely) causes an individual or

social groups (churches, ministry organizations, corporations, etc. are certainly in there) to supplant compassion for

living beings with self-interest and personal gain, tremendous evil is expressed and manifested.

That's really why twi fell apart. Wierwille talked from time to time about his (and others') appetites. Well, appetite is just

another word for desire. When one can't put off self-gratification, and instead uses people all hell breaks out.

Anyway, that's the connection as I see it. And no, I don't think it's a stretch, in the least.

That's one that came down from the top.

The consequences of things like that- often intentional at the top-

was that twi'ers DON'T CARE about other people.

There's no COMPASSION for other people.

This infected people, to a large or a small degree. And when they left

twi, some people were able to discard it within a few years, and some

never have. I thought about that when I saw a poster here talk about

fellow Christians with whom he disagreed (Trinitarians), who worship

the same God he does, who have the same Lord he does, but who view that

Lord and that God somewhat differently while they do. He said they

were "praying to an oil can." It's unlikely that he actually thought

his fellow Christians were bowing and serving an oil can, so the

comment was meant to belittle and demean those with whom he disagreed.

Amd that's over a decade after leaving twi, which illustrates that one

can leave twi without twi leaving them. One can stop attending SNS,

one can stop listening to the tapes and phone hookups, but without actually

thinking and growing past it, one is still doing most of the same harmful

practices that hobbled those unfortunates who learned them in twi in the

first place.

Wonderful insight.

This current column by Chris Hedges shows how similar things happen with people around the world.

The Way HQ property has been sold to Six Flags Amusements. Their plan is to demolish the World Over The World Auditorium, decommission The Fountain Of Living Waters memorial and build the worlds' largest ostrich petting zoo and parakeet display. The Way Woods, likewise, will be reconfigured to accommodate a large scale petunia garden/gift shop.

Happy April 1^st!

:rolleyes:/>

Off topic: I read in some forum that someone was looking for original PFAL books, I think I still have some - anybody there who can help me find that person. Are they collector's items now?

Oh, WordWolf, As a canine, I find it strange that you would use the word: "fixed". If it don't work this time, I will foregow any future attempts at humor.

There's always eBay. A couple of month ago, a friend of mine sold an entire TWI library on ebay. I think he may have gotten a couple hundred bucks for it.

You'll let us know, right?

Hi Broken Arrow,

If you click the link in penworks' tag line (her real name), it will take you to her website where you can subscribe for updates on her book and blog.

KG looks like LCM. Am I the only one who got that?

Nope. I got it right away. :)

Hey Bolshevik,

From the description of the television offering this thread links to, that potential pop culture vehicle might provide some movement in the direction this thread inquired about.

I bet it's got Rosie's panties in a bunch! :)

Coincidence or really based on The Way??

According to the Hulu.com blog, the show, which will be produced by Katims' True Jack Productions, will center around a faith-based movement that causes all kinds of controversy. The show will follow a family caught in the thick of this controversy, and viewers will see how it affects their relationships, marriages and power dynamics.

Read more: http://www.gospelher...m#ixzz3VMSh4vIO

Had not heard of it. Sounds intriguing.

He also was the one who had the original idea for fast food restaurants. Then he tried to give the idea to some Christian businessmen but they didn't have the believing to bring it into fruition. Then the idea was in the senses realm and the devil was able to counterfeit it.

Too many of us bought that BS.

Rocky, you just made my point, thanks, I need say no more other than: maybe see you on a more civil forum.

Which point was that? I don't see it. Please explain. :)

Gee Waysider, your definition of a cult, well, that sounds like the military. The differnce is that: it is you (for the military that is). When a corp or other "training program" person went home for holiday turkey with family, who were they? In the military, you just left all that behind at the table (just like a job) but in a cult, like you elluded I think, you are expected to stay in character. Actually, in the military, when not out on mission, you went home to wife and kids daily so you never really stayed in character. That's what VPW never understood, he was always able to go home (up the hill to his house)he tried to make the corp into "the Marine Corp" but he was never in the military and thus not into a position to make it like a military organization (too much TV and movies and not enough reality). But darn, did he not get his dream (then I pose the question, what was his dream).

Endless supplies of young, attractive women to schtupp, and hundreds of obedient drones. He got those fulfilled... for a time.

Seniority doesn't confer privileges here. Manners do. Tact does. You are lacking in both. Stop getting mad at us for pointing it out and start accepting responsibility for the tone you are setting. The problem is not everyone else. You're rude. A diverse group of people who are accustomed to disagreeing with each other on a variety of issues are all quickly reaching the same conclusion. That's not an accident

Bazinga!

You are quite right WordWolf, I made an assumption that there were alot of ex-corp here and thus, had expectations of some Biblical insight; that was a very bad assumption. So, are there alot of old/ex corp on this site?

There's not a whole lot of anybody here anymore. There's no "in crowd." There's no "crowd."