Rocky

After watching "The Hunt" last night with John Walsh, I must say I was a little disappointed. They never mentioned Barnard's affiliation with twi and it was so apparent that he was heavily influenced by them. They profiled Barnard from the time he started his own cult until the present...no background whatsoever. I'm wondering if twi threatened a lawsuit if they mentioned them on TV...

Other than that, they portrayed Barnard as a lying scum bag pedophile...but they could have done better.

Consider that The Hunt was not aiming to bust TWI.

There will be plenty of time and media coverage on his background once Barnard is apprehended.

I think most folks would say "if I had a kid who got rid of all that so quickly – there must be something wrong with that boy." Yeah, that would be a big red flag to parents. If the "Almost Famous" movie could mention a second message of parental guidance to kids besides "don't do drugs" I think it should be "don't join cults".

A wonderful idea.

Why does ANYONE care what Raf believes? Why does anyone care what johniam believes? Bottom line, Raf came to change his beliefs and shared what that means to him and how he reasoned it out. Nobody else's beliefs are jeopardized by a person doing that, are they?

Where is my shoutbox?

Did you leave it in the bathroom?

I think Oakspear's comment (#35 on this thread) hit the nail on the head. Christians or any other religion that claims "to know" for certainty anything is only peddling BS.

When she discussed the Parkinson's Disease, I believe his wife also said his sobriety was intact.

Personally - - I wish that so much of this was not released via the press to the general public. The family and closest friends have asked for privacy but it seems the Press thinks they're giving privacy when they don't interview the family! All these interviews playing so often over the airwaves must be tearing those family and friends to shreds. I know that this is a free country.....but I also know that my liberties end where yours begin.....at least that's what I was taught in civics class.

I'm very glad that folks are becoming more aware mental illnesses and what some of them entail. But I wish these discussions were separated out in the "distance" of time.

You made several good and important points. Sobriety intact. That's good to know. Hearing about PD may cause some to grasp that Robin was facing a stressful time in his life and knew his future would be difficult. but suicide is not a rational decision people make (almost always, I figure). For someone so gregarious and seemingly open, so much of him was quiet and withdrawn. He had to have impressive skills at keeping his pain hidden. I'm not so sure that was a good thing.

I, too, appreciate the info newlife posted.

The news stunned me as it did millions of people all over the world. He touched hundreds of millions of people with the healing balm of laughter. Besides that, he was such a warm and kind man. All humanity lost a part if its heart when Robin died. And it was and is a tremendous loss for American culture.

You made several good and important points. Sobriety intact. That's good to know. Hearing about PD may cause some to grasp that Robin was facing a stressful time in his life and knew his future would be difficult. but suicide is not a rational decision people make (almost always, I figure). For someone so gregarious and seemingly open, so much of him was quiet and withdrawn. He had to have impressive skills at keeping his pain hidden. I'm not so sure that was a good thing.

I, too, appreciate the info newlife posted.

The news stunned me as it did millions of people all over the world. He touched hundreds of millions of people with the healing balm of laughter. Besides that, he was such a warm and kind man. All humanity lost a part if its heart when Robin died. And it was and is a tremendous loss for American culture.

I also feel for his family. For them, this tragic, trying time is no doubt more stressful because of the media attention. But because he touched so many lives, "we" needed to know how this all could have happened.

I am glad that people here on GreaseSpot Cafe oppose a liar like Victor Barnard, but again I am amazed that people around this person or that knew this person and knew what he was doing when he was doing it, but did not see this as wrong and harmful and oppose this person.

It is amazing that there exists such clandestine, insidious psychological manipulation that members of the group couldn't detect it or cause the perpetrator to be called to account.

There are records suggesting some tried but got pushed out of RRF. They weren't a match for the sociopathic Mr. Barnard.

Barnard will be John Walsh's target on The Hunt on CNN this coming Sunday (Aug 24).

Click the link for a 30-second preview on YouTube.

Glad to see this thread brought back up to the top...had fun reading it.

It's hard for me to imagine how anyone ever took Geer seriously...outside of cult indoctrination that is. Seems that after the cornfield preacher was finally planted under the fountain, his most ardent disciples started playing musical chairs with the tools of group think methodology. The only problem was that when the music finally stopped, there were no more chairs to sit in. The end result of course was that those who thought they could pull it off started their own game with the portion of the cult that they could sneak out the back door with and rename.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice and it's time for a complete mental overhaul at a rehab clinic. The real losers of this experiential mind f**k are the ones who are still doing the back stroke in the septic tank of delusional mental illness. God is personal to each of us and shame and disgrace upon all those who turn it into a business.

Preach it, Brother Groucho!

For those interested I just was informed of this:

Next Sunday 9pm ET - John Walsh profiles Victor Barnard 14th Way Corps

Here's a link to a

And given that there was a VB siting the other day, I'd say it could be very soon that they have him in custody.

life after greasespot.

And you get to decide what to believe, what to do, where to live, who you're friends will be. Lot's a good things. :eusa_clap:/>

It makes complete sense.

I agree completely.

Twi's rolling billboard......the 18 wheeler, ie The Way International On The Move

was advertising what? A biblical research ministry that pointed the way toward the more

abundant life.

What are the TWO main takeaways from pfal: 1)the "law of believing" and 2)the manifestations

of the holy spirit field. Supposedly, these two converged at points in time to give the believer

*power for abundant living.* Power to believe, power to manifest to the world around us that we

were unique and special vessels on this earth. Yet, EVERY ASPECT from the trustees down thru the

leadership ranks was marketing material abundance.....planes, harleys, big rigs and the

"biggest tent on earth p.t. barnum's roa."

All that emphasis on speaking in tongues is perfect prayer to God, etc. was twig talk.

You know, good for the little people going to twig and singing those child-songs.

In contrast, the big boys hung out in wierwille's clubhouse and drank Drambuie....and talked

about power and shiny-material abundance.

Behind the mask, the double-standard was smirking.

Somewhere, it seemed, like the elites had taken enough left turns that they were simply driving

around the block of the devil's enticed world. Wanting to be seen of others; wanting a Harley;

wanting to hang with the in-crowd; wanting to be in wierwille's inner circle.

Was the trustee's believing SO SMALL that one accident, the 18 wheeler, shattered their little world?

If it was okay to own it before, then why wasn't it replaced? Surely, it wasn't the money....after all,

at that time, money was flowing into twi's coffers like crazy.

Yeah.....by 1981, twi was rolling down the road of life alright.

Just on back country roads, that's all.

THE main takeaway from the PLAF class was that the ONLY way to know the will of God was to listen to (glorify, worship, etc.) Wierwille.

It took decades to figure that out, because the secret of their (his) success is (was) the secrecy of their (his) tactics.

i believe it was cancer, outie, and he tried a lot of holistic stuff toward the end

i miss him very much

Yes, it was cancer.

Controlling the flow of information is a long-known, longstanding group (small and large) manipulation strategy.

See 935 Lies, a book written by investigative journalist Charles Lewis, recently publiished and available on amazon.com

We recognize it looking back on twi, but it was by no means unique to our cult.

Someone who spent a lot of time with Wierwille back in the day recently described to me even worse. W was much more cruel than simply using a spoon on dogs. More like kicking them hard enough to send them flying.

I found that incident, as relayed to me, highly plausible based on my observations of Wierwille's cruel narcissism toward his followers.

I was going to start a new thread but when I saw this one, I thought it might fit here. I hope so, anyway.

A couple of weeks ago, I was in youtube looking at some video clips. To my surprise,

Probably, I had previously looked for clips from dickedher (wierwille) or twi. Anyway, it was posted by a cult sycophant named Maurice Goulet.

I posted a comment and fortunately saved the comment to a separate file because it disappeared from youtube in less than 24 hours.

Here's what I wrote:

-----

My experience with Wierwille was first hand. He was a mean, nasty, narcissistic SOB.

He used and abused anyone he could, especially those of us gullible enough to enlist, as young adults, in the Way Corps (I was in the 9th).

He built a subculture based on the works of others (plagiarism). His "Way Tree" had accountability completely backward. Instead of, as was in the Book of Acts, the traveling ministers were accountable to the people who provided their sustinence, whenever Wierwille traveled, his minions were instructed to provide him with every comfort and luxury, but don't dare demand accountability from him. In other words, in his arrogance, he believed he did not have to answer to anyone. As a result, he used many of the young female WOWs and Way Corps for his personal toys in the 1970s and early 1980s. He holds a great deal of responsibility for what LC Martindale did that got him tossed aside by The Way. Wierwille both mentored Martindale and built the closed subculture of reckless abuse of women that Martindale got caught up in and perpetuated after Wierwille's death.

Martin Buber wrote (I and Thou) about the difference between people and things. Wierwille preached that people were to love and things were to be used. But he DID exactly the opposite in far too many instances.

I don't know that "mainstream media" even knows or cares who Wierwille was anymore, let alone believe anything about him. Having personally worked in corporate media, and now blogging regularly, I know that there is plenty of information online to document what Wierwille actually did.

Furthermore, his "foundational class" was FULL of irrational, non-logical and unsound arguments.

That class was nothing but indoctrination into a mindset where he set himself up to be the ONLY authority on what was the will of God.

His interpretation of Proverbs 29:18 is a poignant case in point.

There may be redeeming social value in a close examination of the history of The Way for understanding how people can be indoctrinated and change their behavior without basis in rational sound reasoning. But as far as I'm concerned, that's about it.

If you want to know the God of the Bible, you'll probably need to cast off a good bit of what you may have learned as a result of Wierwille's "ministry."

-----

I used Goulet's name on purpose. Maybe he'll think more about whether he wants to continue to bow down to dickedher's legacy if he knows that he can't completely disassociate his name from the legitimate criticism.

And Skyrider, I agree completely with your point about twi not providing room for people to grow up.

Dammit. I was trying to spell Mississippi. Which was where I was. The Branch leaders were telling some other leadership that were going to take over that they "didn't have this" their first year there - meaning the waiting on that they were receiving - implying that such servitude was their due. Their servants were apprentice Corps. Oh, the poor branch leaders, can you imagine that they might have to actually get their own ice tea and bring it to their guests??

I was looking around in youtube a day or two ago and in the list of recommended videos on the right side of the window showed up one titled something like Wierwille's last public teaching - The Hope. It was, of course, bulls*it and I didn't bother to watch more than the first two and a half minutes or so before I couldn't tolerate it anymore.

But the guy who had posted the video is named Maurice Goulet and boy is he a Wierwille sycophant. There are lots of comments on the the video... so, I added one. Fortunately, I saved my comment because he apparently didn't like it and either deleted it himself or got google to do it for him by flagging it. Anyway, the indentured servitude concept got me wound up and here's what I wrote.

My experience with Wierwille was first hand. He was a mean, nasty, narcissistic SOB.

He used and abused anyone he could, especially those of us gullible enough to enlist, as young adults, in the Way Corps (I was in the 9th).

He built a subculture based on the works of others (plagiarism). His "Way Tree" had accountability completely backward. Instead of, as was in the Book of Acts, the traveling ministers were accountable to the people who provided their sustinence, whenever Wierwille traveled, his minions were instructed to provide him with every comfort and luxury, but don't dare demand accountability from him. In other words, in his arrogance, he believed he did not have to answer to anyone. As a result, he used many of the young female WOWs and Way Corps for his personal toys in the 1970s and early 1980s. He holds a great deal of responsibility for what LC Martindale did that got him tossed aside by The Way. Wierwille both mentored Martindale and built the closed subculture of reckless abuse of women that Martindale got caught up in and perpetuated after Wierwille's death.

Martin Buber wrote (I and Thou) about the difference between people and things. Wierwille preached that people were to love and things were to be used. But he DID exactly the opposite in far too many instances.

I don't know that "mainstream media" even knows or cares who Wierwille was anymore, let alone believe anything about him. Having personally worked in corporate media, and now blogging regularly, I know that there is plenty of information online to document what Wierwille actually did.

Furthermore, his "foundational class" was FULL of irrational, non-logical and unsound arguments.

That class was nothing but indoctrination into a mindset where he set himself up to be the ONLY authority on what was the will of God.

His interpretation of Proverbs

is a poignant case in point.

There may be redeeming social value in a close examination of the history of The Way for understanding how people can be indoctrinated and change their behavior without basis in rational sound reasoning. But as far as I'm concerned, that's about it.

If you want to know the God of the Bible, you'll probably need to cast off a good bit of what you may have learned as a result of Wierwille's "ministry."

Hi there Excie. If that was meant for me, fine. If you want to take your time before sending the manuscript, that's fine too. My friends that I used to work for in the printing business are still in business, and they have the folks there with the know how to do a book/ manuscript up right. Those guys (and gals) are great when it comes to page lay-out, graphics, and the final printing thereof, but they cheerfully admit that they suck when it comes to marketing the final product.

I'd be glad to toss in some of my own money (and I ain't got much, but I do have some "discretional cash") to help get this published in a format that could be easily copied and passed on from one person to another as the need arose, even in a "bulk printing". Learning is an exciting adventure. Time for folks to learn, eh? Are there any legal limitations to getting Jim's manuscript published? He was a first hand witness to a lot of this, and his story of it all should have been told long ago. Better late than never.

As to legal concerns, if it was Jim Doop's manuscript, ownership now rests with his estate or his heirs.

Never underestimate the power of self-delusion.

I'm not sure who first said that, but I heard it from an investigative journalist just a few minutes ago.

Religion (including Wierwille's) is and was all about people. God was incidental.

We were staging social manipulation... because we were "true believers" in the TWI religion. At least for a while (about 12 years in my case).

It's perhaps no wonder that a couple of years ago, I had to post something to JAL to (symbolically) give him a slap to wake up and realize that we are no longer little kids but grown ups who have had to figure out our way in life.

I remember doing "Little Bunny Foo Foo" at Way Family Camp.

Didn't we do "Heads Shoulders Knees and Toes?" It's been so long.........

If nobody grows up and learns to think for themselves, they remain dependent on TWI for their entire lives. Could that have been the idea behind having adult humans repeatedly doing mass indoctrination exercises like Father Abraham, Little Bunny Foo Foo, the Crocodile song, etc.?

Kevin and Sara Guigou have three grown children ... twins named Micah and Grant and a daughter named Dottie, all married. Victor Wierwille is John Paul's son....so Sara would be Victor's uncle. SOWERS is sort of part of the ministry that Kevin is ordained in in Tipp City, Ohio .. the one John Shroyer started when he was kicked out. The name escapes me momentarily.

Sarah sure dresses funny for an uncle. :biglaugh:/>

What? Too graphic for you?

Too nebulous. You really didn't give any one anything to go on as to what you intended by using that term.

Sodomization

You know, other than letting us know where your head is at. :confused:/>