Rocky

Back in 1974......the young, rebel nature in me liked wierwille's directness on religion. Teaching after teaching, he jabbed and poked and mocked denominations and their ministers who didn't have answers; who lacked power just when they needed it most; and some who feared their own shadow. Wierwille embellished "his stories" to empower his message.

Yes, back then....wierwille had "game" and was adept at offense. He marketed his approach to the youth and their rebel-rousing ways against authoritarian rule. Whether it was institutions of higher learning, religious hierarchies, dudley do-right church goers, or misguided parents.....wierwille dismantled support systems and targeted vulnerabilities. The agenda is to knock you off-balance....to get you to question.....to raise suspicion and doubt. Once doubt is sufficiently raised, the "door" opens to a whole new set of paradigms.

After 33-hours of pfal.....supposedly, we now had "the keys to unlock the doors to the more abundant life."

Yet, year after year, I started to detect a pattern to wierwille's teachings. Interspersed at certain junctures was a scoff, or a scorn, or a smug snigger, or a mocking, or a putdown, or a potshot........at the opponent. Plenty of these were scattered even in pfal.....the scholar on the other side of the English Channel that wierwille wouldn't "waste his time on".....the fearful mother whose little Johnnie was killed while walking home......when vpw spoke High German and the ministers were giddy with excitement that vpw had spoken in tongues. At the expense of others' character, wierwille attempts to elevate his search, his findings, and summit.

No where was this pattern more prevalent than in-house corps and staff meetings. Rather than a genuine lifting up of the whole, the teachable moments were more predominant on the putdown/potshot side of the continuum. Corps meetings around 1980, 1981 was when I observed vpw's taintedness even more (as some 6th corps grads and clergy started exiting twi). Cop-outs, they were! See, they were in this nebulous, vague, general category of "forsaking the word" that was never explained. Just smeared! Even men like BG Leonard.....what did wierwille say about him? Or, EW Bullinger? Wait for it.......wait for it.......a scorn of "where they were off the word."

The game was either/or.

The game was black or white.

The game was with or against.

The game was us or them.

The game was "my way or the hi-way."

And, to this day.....twi IS smugly righteous in their own eyes.

I know.......I just had a long conversation with an innie yesterday.

:B)

.

Rumination -- chewing it over and over. Reflection -- a thought, idea or opinion formed as a result of meditation.

We had a LOT of experiences in TWI. Some of those experiences repeated over and over and over and over in similar if not nearly identical ways.

When we first went through those experiences, most of us as young adults perhaps (I was 19 when I first got involved with TWI) we interpreted those

experiences pretty much as we were told or according to expectations we had somehow developed.

Eventually, we were no longer just kids. Nagging dissatisfaction, coupled with learning from sources outside of the subculture into which we had

voluntarily assimilated may have caused us to begin questioning the original interpretations and expectations.

Some of us then post to Greasespot as a way of processing and reprocessing the replays of those experiences.

Pardon my rambling. Just thinking about how posting to greasespot and preceeding forums helped me reprocess the twelve years I was in TWI.

And subject to that reprocessing and re-imagining what it all really meant, I was able to assert independence from that subculture.

Okay, that's all I have for now...

Thanks for listening. :)

I've read both of these books and can recommend them! Something else that helps me to practice more self awareness is meditation or mindfulness, slowing down and reflecting more...

I probably wasn't clear that People of the Lie and Road Less Traveled are two separate books. Indeed, I agree mindfulness and reflection are helpful. :)

The only problem with Lynn's use of the description of hypocritical counterfeit leaders is that it's a perfect description of the leaders of CES, especially during the Momentus kerfluffle and the implosion of STFI.

Love,

Steve

That he can't see any of it in himself doesn't make it any less poignant and applicable.

It's extremely difficult for any of us to see stuff like that in ourselves. That's the whole purpose of the

psychological defense mechanism we know as denial, isn't it?

It's been several years since I've read much about this subject, but among the authors that address it are M. Scott Peck (in his books like The Road Less Traveled and People of the Lie)

and Daniel Goleman (Emotional Intelligence).

Self-awareness is often very difficult and raising awareness of areas of our (emotional and psychological) self that need to be healed is hard work.

It's often a lot easier to see it in others.

Ummm, yeah......I already said that.

Really? So now....you know what ALL of us experienced in twi? <_<

Mad? Not really. Just making an emphatic point about wierwille's cult/socialism. In wierwille's commune, when everyone is "paid on a need basis, guaranteeing basic needs to be met, staffers couldn't do any secular work or overtime to enhance their income, twi monitored the income salaries thru the PR department, all new "research" from research team was collectively wierwille's to proclaim and put his name on new publications, ownership was taught as unnecessary for staff/corps.....

YES.....if it quacks like a duck, its socialism.

What you have described as your experience -- that was objectionable to you -- is not socialism, but fascism.

You're not mad about what you experienced while involved in twi? Really? Do you even read what you write at GSC?

By the way, socialism is NOT communism. Use the word "commune" all you want, but you're still describing something that does not fit with the word (socialism) you want to label it.

Socialism has been in practice in the USA since before the Declaration of Independence.

There is probably no other word more misunderstood in American civics.

Getting awfully political here aren't you all ?

That was my impression also.

I think it's dramatically OFF POINT/OFF THE MARK (sorry for raising my voice just for a second) to equate TWI with Socialism.

There is a dramatic range of variation in what amounts to socialism in practice.

Democratic socialism, where the voice of the people to say what the government is does and doesn't do is FAR from what any

of us experienced in TWI.

On the other hand, despotism comes in a variety of governmental forms from communism to fascism to capitalist oligarchy and plutocracy.

So, I would encourage you, Skyrider, to figure out what it is you are really mad about and stick to working through those issues.

If you're mad about socialism, fine. But you seem to be mixing up issues.

Rugged individualism really means that in society we applaud losing. We condemn those who must not be believing correctly.

Does that sound at all familiar?

today is my 56th birthday

i have other things i want to say but i can't bring myself to say them

it would just show what a failure i am and i don't want to hear it out loud

"""☆¸.•°*”˜˜”*°•.¸☆ ★ ☆¸.•°*”˜˜”*°•.¸☆

╔╗╔╦══╦═╦═╦╗╔╗ ★ ★ ★ ★☆☆★

║╚╝║══║═║═║╚╝║ ☆¸.•°*”˜˜”*°•.¸☆

║╔╗║╔╗║╔╣╔╩╗╔╝ ★ B I R T H D A Y ☆

╚╝╚╩╝╚╩╝╚╝═╚╝ ☆★☆★☆ ★☆☆ Excie!

Hugs and warm fuzzies and fireworks. We're all wacky! :)

When your heart is heavy and your thoughts are less than kind,

the attitude of gratitude is your best state of mind,

just count your many blessings and God's perfect peace you will find.

Don't be so hard on yourself. Sounds like you've accomplished a lot since leaving twi. Nobody's holding a stop watch in your face. Anything you ever got from God you still have, and now you don't have to filter it through...THEM! Set goals. Focus on what you actually have; not what you left behind.

Some wonderful insight. Twi is not the only place people get sidetracked from the life they ultimately want to build. We're wiser for the experience regardless of regrets we might have about being hoodwinked.

It is a fact that young adults don't often have much of an idea of what they want to make of their life. Experience, and hard times build patience and wisdom.

On balance, can you move forward in the direction you want to go in life? If so, that's a lot to be thankful for. :)

hi rocky. how are you? i didn't notice anything

i did want to add how it amazed me how cold it could be in ohio in the morning before the sun came up in august and then be so hot as the day went on. i kind of liked that morning time

I'm keeping cool (as long as the electricity and a/c continues to work)! :) Hope you're well, Excie.

Did you notice that they registered the trademark, S.O.W.E.R.S.? and they also use W.O.W. Ambassadors with the ^TM to show they claim it as a trademark but that it is not registered?

Trademarks

Picture of said WOW-mobile:

Actually, restored, that could be a wonderful vehicle... but it would take a lot of elbow grease and other things to get it fixed up. :)

No, you'll get a worthless bachelor degree if you already have a real one, from a real college.

Isn't that special?

Good grief. This guy's office is a mere three miles from my home. He looks (from a very cursory scan of the text on his website) a quack. The location, however, in downtown Scottsdale, can lead one to figure he preys on (rather than prays for) affluent individuals with more money than brains.

And I thought the Way College only conferred associates degrees.

As soon as you quit your body starts to heal itself and recover.

The sooner the better. My 79 year old mother smoked for a long time but quit a long time ago. She has COPD and will for the rest of her days.

I thank God she quit before emphysema or lung cancer. But my brother wasn't so lucky. Heart disease got him at 36 and he was a heavy smoker since

early in adolescence.

where is the evan and alfa cat ?

I don't know about Evan, but alfakat is a regular on facebook under his real name.

btw, along with the conspiracy theory, paranoia stuff, don't forget DWA -- Dealing w/adversary... that definitely fostered paranoia...

What can we do for you now Kit? If there is anything specific to you and your family, please ask.

You have always been a kind and encouraging soul on this board. May God multiply the comfort and strength you have provided to so many here.

Of course, RockyRococo was "invented" (imagined and written) by Firesign Theatre. All hail to the Private Adventures of Nick Danger, Third Eye. A part of the culture many of us grew up with has passed away.

Not sure it's James Trimm.

Sounds more like Michael somebody-or-other who thinks he's some great Jewish guru and dresses in funny clothes.

TWI makes a habit of suing people for use of "The Way" and other such marks or those including the phrase "The Way" in its name.

Actually if such organizations knew what The Way was like, they'd probably want to drop the name pretty quick to avoid being associated with such a cult.

Perhaps you're thinking of Michael Rood. Seventh Way Corps... quite the Rabbi these days.

Thanks. Fred's dr and social workers are caring individuals, as are all the people over at the VA. He is fortunate to be there. (Plus they said his care wouldn't cost me anything, which is a big relief.) Thanks, again, for your prayers on our behalf.

So glad the best people in an excellent system are available for Fred now. The VA medical system has saved my life a couple of times. God bless them and God bless you Kit, and Fred. :wub:

My take on the clip is different than whoever posted (and titled) the clip. He was mocking that religion did not save the people and/or their homes or communities. He closed indicating it was sad the event had happened to the people.

Now, as to use of the expression, what might be the talker's connection to events wherein he had heard the phrase used? Are we to assume no one prior to Loy C Martindale ever used the phrase, the terminology, the expression? Where might Loy have heard it? Whose path did Loy cross or whose did Mike Malloy. Or could there have been degrees of separation (or of Kevin Bacon)?

Intriguing reflections nevertheless. :)

We used to call Rico "Rico the Robot."

I just remembered another incident: my Limb coordinator wife (new to the area) telling me and a couple of other single girls how after she got married she and her husband would HAVE to pull over and have sex on the side of the road all the time and that all married people did that.

Weirdo.

*edited for spelling

Well... I have it on good authority that it's not limited to married people...

Personal and emotional boundaries ARE common sense -- for those who have enough emotional and social maturity to recognize and consider (be considerate of) the needs of anyone other than him or her self.

March Forth! The ONLY day of the year which is also a command! :)

What you did by starting this thread, Sky... is to point out specific cases of where megalomaniacs have used "equality" as a ploy to centralize authority and then misuse that authority. You used lessons of history in political situations to define the early development process of the religious subculture (cult) with which we are familiar. My question to you had been intended to get you to think about whether the problem was the actual issue of equality or something other than that.

The politics forum was put to sleep at greasespot last year. It is not my intent to revive it.

Nevertheless, you answered the question and have your viewpoint. It is not my intent to engage you in discussion on that viewpoint. Rather, I recommend you consider whether or not the actual problem you identified has as its underlying issue whether the problem is humanity's desire for an egalitarian society or whether the problem is the megalomaniac who exploits that aspect of humanity to establish a culture/society that serves himself and his elite (oligarchy).

The instances you cited for comparison purposes are not nearly the only times when equality and the need/desire for it have played a defining role in the establishment of a new nation.

You did NOT cite American (revolutionary and pre-revolutionary) history.

We hold THESE truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal and are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are... etc.

The history of our country since that time has been a vivid drama revolving around tensions between the haves and the have nots.

The actual bottom line is that citing the two examples as you did can shed light on Wierwille and twi. But those two examples are woefully inadequate in proving that there is anything inherently wrong or evil with the concept of egalitarianism.

Depression sucks, big time. Compassion goes a long way. Just an understanding ear, a handshake or a(n unselfish) hug. I know, I've been there. Stress also contributes dramatically to depression. A narcissistic cult is unlikely to provide, as so many have said in their own words (telling their own story) to provide the support and does indeed compound the stress.

And Excie, no need to apologize to me for anything you've said here. :)

So, Sky, are you saying equality is not a worthy ideal?