Rocky

Thanks for that, Waysider.

I'm totally on board with what Waysider has posted in this thread. And I think JavaJane's comment above is wonderfully on the mark.

I still don't get what Bolshevik's ultimately getting at.

Nope....not just an animated movie.

All dogs go to heaven....

The Pope says so.

Click Here

Having lost my feline companion of 15 years less than a month ago, this idea is among the issues I wrestle with.

I saw the Dr Phil item. I felt really ill during and after watching. Even with an understanding of the background/cult indoctrination. I'd imagine the feelings of the general non-Wayfer population would waver between total incredulity and furious rage.

I liked that Dr Phil offered Lindsay some counseling to help her get over it. But not just offered to the "Maiden" - he also offered counseling to the father, Carmen, to help him come to terms with his own responsibilities and failures.

Notably the mother wasn't featured in the interview. She's just as culpable as the father.

The mother is still in RRF, VB's TWI offshoot. Darn tootin' she's just as culpable. I hope Carmen and Lindsay reconcile someday. It took a lot of guts for both Lindsay to come forward and make the whole thing public and for Carmen to come as far as he has so far in accepting responsibility. I realize he's got a ways to go still.

TWI was started by an alcoholic gathering up a bunch of hippies. Hippies on drugs, no? Altered minds get things going.

Of course modern TWI takes a stance against those things. Things conveniently change.

So perhaps firm enforcement against drugs and alcohol will prevent more cults from popping up?

If the above is bunk, could Law prevent groups like TWI from forming? (If TWI is corporate alone, wouldn't it be Law that needs to help?)

What kind of law did you have in mind?

The questions you ask about preventing "more cults from popping up" are not answerable in sound bytes that would be readable on a forum.

These are complex sociological, psychological questions/discussions. Get into the realm of legislation or constitutional law and it gets even more complicated.

I'm really wondering what your overall intention is with these threads.

The way I explain it is that I was involved in and worked for an abusive Christian ministry and the experience heavily affected my life during the time I was involved in it, and even affects me today from time to time because the experience was very traumatic. The reason it was so traumatic was because these were people who were supposed to love and do good for others, but the meaning of "love" and "good" were twisted to be manipulative and harmful to those involved on a mental, emotional, financial, familial, and relational level. It's doctrines were made to control every aspect of a follower's life.

I do use the word "cult" to describe TWI, but it's not my first choice. People hear the word and think of the Moonies, and Jim Jones, and Waco, and Satanism. I use the phrase "abusive fundamentalist Christian church" first, and then "fundamentalist Christian cult" once there has been some explanation of my experiences.

That's pretty darn good... and plenty concise.

His drinking could have certainly been a catalyst, though, yes?

Not really relevant to this discussion.

Dependent? Not to the degree Big AG would be unable to adapt.

Maybe you're being a bit too pessimistic there, Galen.

I'm connected with people who have their fingers on the pulse of the solar industry and I've never heard that about radioactive waste. Got a source? I'd be interested in evaluating it.

My sources tell me that the radioactive by product story is a false myth.

Indeed, my understanding of Solyndra comports with what WordWolf said.

And when the business plan becomes economically unfeasible, that's not the same as some government agency saying they aren't allowed to open for business.

And YES, what Wierwille built was a cult.

I've been in situations where I had to explain to some "outsiders" about TWI. Very important meetings and such.

I'll as an aside describe TWI as a cult.

They'll ask, "What makes it a cult"

What do you do? Hand them a book?

It can't be explained. Not in any serious context, not when it matters.

Maybe cults don't really exist? It's all in your head, right? Just a word for pop culture or something of the like? Cult, religion, church . . . all synonyms?

It can be explained. It has been explained. Just because you don't understand it enough to explain it doesn't mean someone else hasn't.

The wikipedia article Twinky cited has a couple of dozen references/citations/articles by scholars who have studied the phenomenon.

Philip Zimbardo, an emeritus professor at Stanford, studied and

There's the family you're given, and there's the family you choose.

Some chose TWI, some did not.

And that choice, thankfully, was revocable.

Skyrider is right on the mark. If you were ever in a private meeting with Wierwille, or in a corpse meeting, you witnessed his ungodly meanness. In those situations, if ever he was displeased about anything, he was not shy about it.

Twinky, I wasn't comparing the two "mogs."

Clearly, Wierwille showed Loy how to do it and that it was just fine to unload on people. Loy, of course, had a major problem with moderating his behavior.

Our current model of conventional Ag is dependent on petroleum for the manufacture of fertilizers. If we lose access to oil, that segment of our food production is crippled.

Our current model of conventional Ag is dependent on petroleum for herbicide synthesis [especially GMO crop production]. If we lose access to oil, that segment of our food production is crippled.

As for Nuclear pollution, keep in mind that Solar panel manufacture produces more waste in terms of radioactive heavy metals. But it does not get much press. Does anyone remember Solyndra? Why were they not allowed to open for business? They would have been producing solar panels, and also as a by-product radioactive heavy metal waste. Solyndra could not pass the EPA requirements for disposal of the waste. Which is why Mexico produces so much of our solar panels and IC chips.

Dependent? Not to the degree Big AG would be unable to adapt.

Maybe you're being a bit too pessimistic there, Galen.

I'm connected with people who have their fingers on the pulse of the solar industry and I've never heard that about radioactive waste. Got a source? I'd be interested in evaluating it.

Was VPW as harsh as LCM? That was all hidden was it not?

A good teaching was not a good teaching unless there was harshness. Being harsh to another was a sign of spirituality. The harsher, the closer to truth.

People thanked each other for being harsh to one another. Harshness was expected.

With emotions and feelings considered unimportant, almost evil, and generally not allowed to be expressed, harsh anger was substituted in their place, was it not?

How could there be a relationship without the rod of correction?

Fury is love. Fuzzy is evil.

Where do you think Martindale learned to be so harsh? Wierwille was, indeed, VERY harsh.

It is sad to watch him proclaim he is healed, and yet he looks unwell. Also dealing with extreme fatigue which indicates he's treading water at best. None of the name and claim or positive believing is rendering positive results it seems.

While that may be true, and I'm certainly no fan of what JAL preaches, it's his battle and his life. I wish him well and don't blame him for trying to figure out how to beat the illness.

And....not only were we categorized like Eve for questioning, wierwille flat-out told us

that when it came to biblical research HE would tell us WHAT TO THINK.

Where was the two-way dialogue?

It is SO REFRESHING to have back-n-forth dialogue on subjects of interest.

Twi was an indoctrination camp that suppressed ANY and ALL QUESTIONING.

I will give you a hearty AMEN to that point.

While we continue to innovate and explore ALL avenues of energy.....

solar, wind, electric, thermonuclear, etc. it is encouraging to know

there is every indication that we are going to stay warm during

these long, cold winters ahead.

*****

energyforamerica.org

NORTH AMERICAN'S VAST RESOURCES

OIL

Total Recoverable Resources: 1.79 trillion barrels.

 Enough oil to fuel every passenger car in the United States for 430 years

 Almost twice as much as the combined proved reserves of all OPEC nations

 More than six times the proved reserves of Saudi Arabia

COAL

Total Recoverable Resources: 497 billion short tons.

 Provide enough electricity for approximately 500 years at coal's current level of consumption for electricity generation

 More coal than any other country in the world

 More than the combined total of the top five non-North American countries' reserves. (Russia, China, Australia, India, and Ukraine)

 Almost three times as much coal as Russia, which has the world's second largest reserves.

NATURAL GAS

Total Recoverable Resources: 4.244 quadrillion cubic feet.

 Enough natural gas to provide the United States with electricity for 575 years at current natural gas generation levels

 Enough natural gas to fuel homes heated by natural gas in the United States for 857 years

 More natural gas than all of the next five largest national proved reserves (more than Russia, Iran, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and Turkmenistan)

Yeah, we'll stay warm... but will we be able to breathe?

LOL yes, I knew he was not a real dr. It's strange that both of these men were able to convince thousands of people that they were a father figure and then use their power to take advantage of young women. AND they got away with it for so long. So many people refuse to believe it. I was so shocked to learn the truth about both of them. I was a Way kid who grew up watching Cosby-- nothing will surprise me after this...

I assure you, other former wayfers have been thinking about this parallel between the two of them even though none has yet posted to gsc about it.

Intriguing. My thought is that there should be some legit academic studies done from a social science angle on the phenomenon, especially if there hasn't been any done yet.

"Someone ought to post this on the FB page for VPW's followers: FB page

It's a closed group so I can't do it.

I doubt it would last long there. ".......

I did that exact thing this week...along with about 7 or 8 posts telling them what I thought of their hero...I was booted and blocked before the night was over.

Badge of honor!

And again, your opening post seems to want to address TODAY. The posts here of mainly of YESTERDAY.

History is always rewritten. Followers of The Way read The Bible, which is ever-changing, and talk of Wierwille, who exists only in people's minds.

The retirement subject involves generations people in and out of twi. To say twi "kicks people to the curb", to point at leadership, is a lazy cop-out. All organizations do that.

Retirement was talked about. Sometimes by leadership. Mostly by the rank and file PFAL grad - who were a step above the rest of us.

The follower of the The Way will follow their reality . . . and take whoever they can down with them.

But skyrider, do you propose any ideas on how to deal with retiring wayfers? Or are we just here to mock?

Are you suggesting TWI is not worthy of mocking these days?

And "Happy Ho-Ho" just sounded stupid

As does most everything else about that creepy cult, especially 28 years after severing ties with it.

There's a five minute video clip on Huffington Post... not just a trailer.

It appears I may not have been clear in why I posted the link to the Huff Post story.

I just wanted to post the clip.

I'm in complete agreement with Krys about each point in her comment. I'm thankful I was out of TWI before having children. But even then, the harshness that was modeled by Wierwille and Martindale was something it took me a long time to shake and it adversely impacted my relationship with my daughter... which I very much regret.

It would indeed be great to see a program like Dr. Phil address the subtlety of the mind f**k we got ourselves into as young adults. A one hour television program goes by incredibly fast.

I've had the opportunity to participate in one hour radio shows recently and it goes by even faster when you're in the middle of it.

Sorry that I wasn't clear. I appreciate your perspective, Krys, very much.

I watched this afternoon and my stomach turned. I recall some posters (long ago) who spoke of similar things even with this particular individual, and while watching the show, the father was presented as being responsible although not to blame.

Those of us who were involved with the main organization - twi - were also "responsible" for things we permitted and or encouraged or even enforced among our families. The brilliant light of the show seemed to mark all of us as "responsible". Of course there is only so much time on one TV program, and I am glad that a magnifying glass was focused on this for informational purposes. But it would have been good to also show a bright light on how the subtle brainwashing into this cult mentality is - - for the same informational purposes.

There's a five minute video clip on Huffington Post... not just a trailer.

Carmen and Lindsay are going to be on Dr. Phil tomorrow (Tuesday November 25).

Set your DVR.

Thanks for posting that, Charlene. I wonder how long it will take before TWI starts proceedings or some other effort to get this removed?

Someone ought to post this on the FB page for VPW's followers: FB page

It's a closed group so I can't do it.

I doubt it would last long there.

And the WC group on FB. :)

thanks for finding and sharing that Charlene

I second that motion!