Rocky

Twi's rolling billboard......the 18 wheeler, ie The Way International On The Move

was advertising what? A biblical research ministry that pointed the way toward the more

abundant life.

What are the TWO main takeaways from pfal: 1)the "law of believing" and 2)the manifestations

of the holy spirit field. Supposedly, these two converged at points in time to give the believer

*power for abundant living.* Power to believe, power to manifest to the world around us that we

were unique and special vessels on this earth. Yet, EVERY ASPECT from the trustees down thru the

leadership ranks was marketing material abundance.....planes, harleys, big rigs and the

"biggest tent on earth p.t. barnum's roa."

All that emphasis on speaking in tongues is perfect prayer to God, etc. was twig talk.

You know, good for the little people going to twig and singing those child-songs.

In contrast, the big boys hung out in wierwille's clubhouse and drank Drambuie....and talked

about power and shiny-material abundance.

Behind the mask, the double-standard was smirking.

Somewhere, it seemed, like the elites had taken enough left turns that they were simply driving

around the block of the devil's enticed world. Wanting to be seen of others; wanting a Harley;

wanting to hang with the in-crowd; wanting to be in wierwille's inner circle.

Was the trustee's believing SO SMALL that one accident, the 18 wheeler, shattered their little world?

If it was okay to own it before, then why wasn't it replaced? Surely, it wasn't the money....after all,

at that time, money was flowing into twi's coffers like crazy.

Yeah.....by 1981, twi was rolling down the road of life alright.

Just on back country roads, that's all.

THE main takeaway from the PLAF class was that the ONLY way to know the will of God was to listen to (glorify, worship, etc.) Wierwille.

It took decades to figure that out, because the secret of their (his) success is (was) the secrecy of their (his) tactics.

i believe it was cancer, outie, and he tried a lot of holistic stuff toward the end

i miss him very much

Yes, it was cancer.

Controlling the flow of information is a long-known, longstanding group (small and large) manipulation strategy.

See 935 Lies, a book written by investigative journalist Charles Lewis, recently publiished and available on amazon.com

We recognize it looking back on twi, but it was by no means unique to our cult.

Someone who spent a lot of time with Wierwille back in the day recently described to me even worse. W was much more cruel than simply using a spoon on dogs. More like kicking them hard enough to send them flying.

I found that incident, as relayed to me, highly plausible based on my observations of Wierwille's cruel narcissism toward his followers.

I was going to start a new thread but when I saw this one, I thought it might fit here. I hope so, anyway.

A couple of weeks ago, I was in youtube looking at some video clips. To my surprise,

Probably, I had previously looked for clips from dickedher (wierwille) or twi. Anyway, it was posted by a cult sycophant named Maurice Goulet.

I posted a comment and fortunately saved the comment to a separate file because it disappeared from youtube in less than 24 hours.

Here's what I wrote:

-----

My experience with Wierwille was first hand. He was a mean, nasty, narcissistic SOB.

He used and abused anyone he could, especially those of us gullible enough to enlist, as young adults, in the Way Corps (I was in the 9th).

He built a subculture based on the works of others (plagiarism). His "Way Tree" had accountability completely backward. Instead of, as was in the Book of Acts, the traveling ministers were accountable to the people who provided their sustinence, whenever Wierwille traveled, his minions were instructed to provide him with every comfort and luxury, but don't dare demand accountability from him. In other words, in his arrogance, he believed he did not have to answer to anyone. As a result, he used many of the young female WOWs and Way Corps for his personal toys in the 1970s and early 1980s. He holds a great deal of responsibility for what LC Martindale did that got him tossed aside by The Way. Wierwille both mentored Martindale and built the closed subculture of reckless abuse of women that Martindale got caught up in and perpetuated after Wierwille's death.

Martin Buber wrote (I and Thou) about the difference between people and things. Wierwille preached that people were to love and things were to be used. But he DID exactly the opposite in far too many instances.

I don't know that "mainstream media" even knows or cares who Wierwille was anymore, let alone believe anything about him. Having personally worked in corporate media, and now blogging regularly, I know that there is plenty of information online to document what Wierwille actually did.

Furthermore, his "foundational class" was FULL of irrational, non-logical and unsound arguments.

That class was nothing but indoctrination into a mindset where he set himself up to be the ONLY authority on what was the will of God.

His interpretation of Proverbs 29:18 is a poignant case in point.

There may be redeeming social value in a close examination of the history of The Way for understanding how people can be indoctrinated and change their behavior without basis in rational sound reasoning. But as far as I'm concerned, that's about it.

If you want to know the God of the Bible, you'll probably need to cast off a good bit of what you may have learned as a result of Wierwille's "ministry."

-----

I used Goulet's name on purpose. Maybe he'll think more about whether he wants to continue to bow down to dickedher's legacy if he knows that he can't completely disassociate his name from the legitimate criticism.

And Skyrider, I agree completely with your point about twi not providing room for people to grow up.

Dammit. I was trying to spell Mississippi. Which was where I was. The Branch leaders were telling some other leadership that were going to take over that they "didn't have this" their first year there - meaning the waiting on that they were receiving - implying that such servitude was their due. Their servants were apprentice Corps. Oh, the poor branch leaders, can you imagine that they might have to actually get their own ice tea and bring it to their guests??

I was looking around in youtube a day or two ago and in the list of recommended videos on the right side of the window showed up one titled something like Wierwille's last public teaching - The Hope. It was, of course, bulls*it and I didn't bother to watch more than the first two and a half minutes or so before I couldn't tolerate it anymore.

But the guy who had posted the video is named Maurice Goulet and boy is he a Wierwille sycophant. There are lots of comments on the the video... so, I added one. Fortunately, I saved my comment because he apparently didn't like it and either deleted it himself or got google to do it for him by flagging it. Anyway, the indentured servitude concept got me wound up and here's what I wrote.

My experience with Wierwille was first hand. He was a mean, nasty, narcissistic SOB.

He used and abused anyone he could, especially those of us gullible enough to enlist, as young adults, in the Way Corps (I was in the 9th).

He built a subculture based on the works of others (plagiarism). His "Way Tree" had accountability completely backward. Instead of, as was in the Book of Acts, the traveling ministers were accountable to the people who provided their sustinence, whenever Wierwille traveled, his minions were instructed to provide him with every comfort and luxury, but don't dare demand accountability from him. In other words, in his arrogance, he believed he did not have to answer to anyone. As a result, he used many of the young female WOWs and Way Corps for his personal toys in the 1970s and early 1980s. He holds a great deal of responsibility for what LC Martindale did that got him tossed aside by The Way. Wierwille both mentored Martindale and built the closed subculture of reckless abuse of women that Martindale got caught up in and perpetuated after Wierwille's death.

Martin Buber wrote (I and Thou) about the difference between people and things. Wierwille preached that people were to love and things were to be used. But he DID exactly the opposite in far too many instances.

I don't know that "mainstream media" even knows or cares who Wierwille was anymore, let alone believe anything about him. Having personally worked in corporate media, and now blogging regularly, I know that there is plenty of information online to document what Wierwille actually did.

Furthermore, his "foundational class" was FULL of irrational, non-logical and unsound arguments.

That class was nothing but indoctrination into a mindset where he set himself up to be the ONLY authority on what was the will of God.

His interpretation of Proverbs

is a poignant case in point.

There may be redeeming social value in a close examination of the history of The Way for understanding how people can be indoctrinated and change their behavior without basis in rational sound reasoning. But as far as I'm concerned, that's about it.

If you want to know the God of the Bible, you'll probably need to cast off a good bit of what you may have learned as a result of Wierwille's "ministry."

Hi there Excie. If that was meant for me, fine. If you want to take your time before sending the manuscript, that's fine too. My friends that I used to work for in the printing business are still in business, and they have the folks there with the know how to do a book/ manuscript up right. Those guys (and gals) are great when it comes to page lay-out, graphics, and the final printing thereof, but they cheerfully admit that they suck when it comes to marketing the final product.

I'd be glad to toss in some of my own money (and I ain't got much, but I do have some "discretional cash") to help get this published in a format that could be easily copied and passed on from one person to another as the need arose, even in a "bulk printing". Learning is an exciting adventure. Time for folks to learn, eh? Are there any legal limitations to getting Jim's manuscript published? He was a first hand witness to a lot of this, and his story of it all should have been told long ago. Better late than never.

As to legal concerns, if it was Jim Doop's manuscript, ownership now rests with his estate or his heirs.

Never underestimate the power of self-delusion.

I'm not sure who first said that, but I heard it from an investigative journalist just a few minutes ago.

Religion (including Wierwille's) is and was all about people. God was incidental.

We were staging social manipulation... because we were "true believers" in the TWI religion. At least for a while (about 12 years in my case).

It's perhaps no wonder that a couple of years ago, I had to post something to JAL to (symbolically) give him a slap to wake up and realize that we are no longer little kids but grown ups who have had to figure out our way in life.

I remember doing "Little Bunny Foo Foo" at Way Family Camp.

Didn't we do "Heads Shoulders Knees and Toes?" It's been so long.........

If nobody grows up and learns to think for themselves, they remain dependent on TWI for their entire lives. Could that have been the idea behind having adult humans repeatedly doing mass indoctrination exercises like Father Abraham, Little Bunny Foo Foo, the Crocodile song, etc.?

Kevin and Sara Guigou have three grown children ... twins named Micah and Grant and a daughter named Dottie, all married. Victor Wierwille is John Paul's son....so Sara would be Victor's uncle. SOWERS is sort of part of the ministry that Kevin is ordained in in Tipp City, Ohio .. the one John Shroyer started when he was kicked out. The name escapes me momentarily.

Sarah sure dresses funny for an uncle. :biglaugh:/>

What? Too graphic for you?

Too nebulous. You really didn't give any one anything to go on as to what you intended by using that term.

Sodomization

You know, other than letting us know where your head is at. :confused:/>

And as we've come to realize, BECAUSE we continued to learn, IN SPITE OF twi, that it's all bull***t.

I sincerely doubt that TWI or any of its offspring will ever again grow the way it did in its hay day. There are lots of once popular cults that are now deader than door nails. The message of PFAL was dated when Wierwille recorded it. None of his later attempts to re-record it, like in 1977, were successful. None of the TWI material can speak to people today the way it spoke to us in the late-'60s, '70s, and early-'80s.

Some "cults", like the Mormons, the Seventh Day Adventists and the Jehovah's Witnesses survived the deaths of their founders and continued to develop and grow. The Way International did not. It ceased to develop, and imploded. As I have often said, Dave Arneson's invention of recreational role-playing has had, and will continue to have, a vastly more widespread, profitable and loving impact on society and culture than Wierwille's cult.

These guys are just engaged in a role-playing game... but it's not as much fun as D&D.

Love,

Steve

I partly agree and partly disagree.

Clearly TWI is nowhere'sville now. And the pathetically non-eventful ordination of V2P2 does not appear to put anyone or anything on a path similar to the mormons, 7th Day Adventists or JWs. But that doesn't mean somebody charismatically devious can't enter the picture at some point. I'll grant that it's unlikely, but not that it's impossible.

Indeed, I think you're on to something with the role-playing game insight.

The only word that comes to my mind is...pathetic.

Do these youngsters even know about the plagiarism, the adulterous affairs, the suicides, the lies, the control, the broken lives?

They live in a little pretend world based on the lies of their fathers...Walter has become a joke...no wait, Walter always was a joke. Did I see Sarah W playing the piano? Maybe they should have invited Craig...that would have made for an even funnier video

Yes. Pathetic. Yes, that was Sarah W playing the piano. Emphatically YES, a pretend world based on the lies of one jackass of a man.

Indeed, likely justifying it all as you've got to act like you deserve it before it will come to fruition. But really it's about the pipe dreams of the elders... Walter J Cummins (duly aged) and a ffew other old timers praying over the next generation guy who will be able to repeat words written by somebody else.

Not ONE word in that video was at all inspiring...

Listened to an 11 clip of V1P1 teaching. It was fully of logical fallacies. Dickedher could count on ensnaring young people without much intellectual savvy. Anyone capable of listening to wierwille and apply critical thinking could see right through it. Of course, at age 19 when I first was entangled by Wierwille's BS, I didn't have much of life to use to evaluate it.

As far as we've heard, nobody has located Barnard at this time.

I remember getting yelled at by wierwille a time or two, but don't recall ever having a pleasant conversation with him. Loy, OTOH, I talked with a few times but nothing memorable.

I remember getting yelled at by wierwille a time or two, but don't recall ever having a pleasant conversation with him. Loy, OTOH, I talked with a few times but nothing memorable.

btw, I am male. :)

And psychopathy.

Well....when I think about all those hours spent listening to wierwille in nightowls, meetings, and 'sharing his heart'.....most all of it was just common, everyday stuff. No biggie. No revelation. No grand plan. No secrets to the universe.

Sure, wierwille sprinkled in some scripture and all......but really, he was nothing special.

My grandfathers had the SAME insight.....SIMILAR stories. And, about every farmer in our county could spend hours

giving you the ins-and-outs about farming, weather, seasons, livestock, harvesting, family matters, etc. Of course,

wierwille knew how to embellish a story, and add dramatic flavor and all. But he was the average rural preacher....

nothing more.

Having an entourage of yes-men fronting his entrance, and a valet/bodyguard might have made him look like

a Michael Bloomberg billionaire......but really, if wierwille would have not added all the fanfare to his

posturing and mystique, he was just average. That's all.

The trappings of narcissism.

when the advanced class failed me from healing people, i pinned my hopes on the way corps training ( thinking did i not get it ? )

i also think i was influenced that it was the only way to be really spiritual and help to the greatest degree

i want to apologize to my sponsors i really do

i'm sorry

i hope i didn't change in the sense of acting elite

but i know for sure i didn't come through in helping people more

There was a LOT of that... you are definitely not alone.

So, where are all the 3,500 corps grads today?

What is the result of wierwille's spiritual "elite" corps grads?

Scattered to the four winds.

Some decided to actually have a life of their own choosing.

The doulos "teaching" wasn't even subtle in its manipulation/indoctrination.

Become slaves to TWI as a surrogate for God.

He said he could be running a Fortune 500 company - not just working for it. Didn't VPW start that lie? And LCM with his massive ego sorry humility believed it.

But he might be working for one now - who knows?

Any Fortune 500 company he was CEO for would soon be a Fortune 500million company - if that well off. He ran TWI into the ground, financially.

I don't think anyone here has any up to date information. Some years ago (10 years?) he was reputed to be working for a home handyman store or some such. He's no doubt moved or been moved on since then. Maybe moved on spiritually, too.

Nope, still moping around Toledo. Still, as I understand, living in that TWI paid for home and receiving a respectable (size) pension. Woe is him.

For as much as they used and abused us- the media really doesn't care about them, even the Loyster. They are just too stupid to profile on national TV. Any thoughts?

When Victor Barnard is found and brought to justice, corporate media will have renewed interest in TWI.