Rocky

I went to YouTube a little while ago. I don't know if this video suggests a bit of synchronicity or not, but I found it intriguing and though back to my childhood.

So sorry for what you and Tux are going through.

I statements are not blaming. They are An “I” message is not about being polite. It’s about being clear.  An “I” messages is not concerned with how the other person might respond.  An “I” message is not intended to force another person to “fix the problem.”  It is clear statement that says “this is how it looks from my perspective.” An “I” message says “this is how it looks from my side of things.” If the shoe fits, wear it. If it doesn't, no big deal. I don't understand the defensiveness in response to Marie's OP. I don't have a compelling desire to understand it.

Fair points. Nevertheless, "we in the corps" were duped. And yes, GSC has been sounding this alarm for more than two decades. Personally, I'm not offended even if she was engaged in a finger-pointing exercise. No reader at GSC is obligated to refrain from finger-pointing, last I heard. I ran for an elected position to the governing board of the school district my daughter attended, back in 1998. I faced a good bit of criticism, as candidates apparently always do. Thanks to a hit piece about my divorce in a community newspaper at the last moment, I lost the race. The criticism stung. At this point, this criticism doesn't bother me. You, Skyrider, have invested a lot and have valiantly made yourself vulnerable on GSC. That, I believe, is a solid indication of strength of character. I'm thankful for your input, both on this thread and over the years.

RE-reading Marie's OP, I realized the tone and the entire message was an extended "I" statement. Sure, she extended it to "we." What she did NOT do was blame anyone here for anything she did not own herself. MarieP's post was totally in line with emotional intelligence, IMO.

And perhaps sometimes when people show up and make a bold post, they might anticipate harsh replies. There's no social norm requiring the person to continue to engage. In fact, understanding such is implicit in requests made hoping she would engage further. Bottom-line: take it however you like, but I'd encourage people here to not badger people who do and say what Marie did.

I'm not sure someone posting rhetorical questions, suggesting readers examine their words/actions needs to verify her bone fides. I will review her OP, but right now do not recall her making any accusations or inappropriate claims.

Here's another thing we may not have grasped fully in twi: paradox. Two or more contradictory things might both be true at the same time. In my 60s, I can see how I have some wisdom I didn't have, especially between the ages of 19 and 31. We submitted ourselves (at least I did) to someone I now believe was teaching things by word and deed which were wrong a lot. How and why did I obtain such wisdom, if I did at all? I think of Romans 5. "we[c] also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us." Suffering? In the Gospel of John, doesn't Jesus tell us that in this world we will have trouble. Pressure? Stress? Make mistakes perhaps? (Many of them). But in Him we can have comfort and peace. Going through such experiences produces, if we are humble, a depth of understanding (including to correct our "path" or conduct) and wisdom. Wisdom comes by making mistakes and learning from them... rather than steadfastly believing we weren't on the wrong path to begin with, perhaps. Yeah, I use the word perhaps quite a bit. I'm not as certain about things now as I was 40 years ago.

Btw, from a philosophical perspective, I agree with your point on who holds the greater sin. On a personal level, however, I don't necessarily want to compare whose sins are greater or lesser. Nevertheless, Brother Skyrider, I very much appreciate, agree on, and relate to the heartfelt reflection in your two posts/comments this evening. And MarieP, I too encourage you to stick around and continue the conversation.

Proverbs 2: 1-5 come to mind. My son, if you accept my words and store up my commands within you, 2 turning your ear to wisdom and applying your heart to understanding— 3 indeed, if you call out for insight and cry aloud for understanding, 4 and if you look for it as for silver and search for it as for hidden treasure, 5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God. Some of those conditions are internal, attitude kind of things. But "search for it as for hidden treasure" seems to me to be more tangible, outward effort/action. In this context, readings the research of sociologists and psychologists who focus on cult related matters, for example. That's something I try to do.

BTW, You posed a very reasonable question for readers here. Thank you.

In reflection on my time at GSC, I believe you will find a good bit of self-awareness of that very notion in threads on GSC. For one to be willing to do so, s/he must be personally resilient and willing to be vulnerable, which I believe is an indication strong character. I have expressed my regret and remorse over how I handled my marriage, divorce and child raising. I'm thankful for God's mercy. As to the book to which you refer, depending on whether it's a memoir or a journalistic style exposé, I appreciate your take on it. It takes guts to acknowledge what you did about yourself. I hope you got/get a lot out of the book beyond second guessing the author.

Righteous anger is wayspeak for rationalizing a certain kind of behavior which does not comport with The Great Commandments, sadly.

Intriguing indeed... especially if I still held to the intrigue of fundamentalism and parsing of meanings of individual words. Note: I do not mean that in any way as criticism of you or your reply to Skyrider. Of course, we DO describe harmful, controlling pseudo-Christian cult leaders and the systematizing of deception and control.

Failures of imagination.

It's available, though not for free, on Amazon.

IOW, synchronicity is subjective. It is perhaps both intangible and tangible at the same time.

I should also note the book Jesus and John Wayne goes beneath the surface to explore how religious culture holds a good bit of responsibility (blame?) for the abusive environment pervasive in too many Christian churches/denominations over the last century or so. We know Wierwille holds plenty of responsibility. It's important, IMO, to consider the religious culture from which he emerged.

Women Talking won, for Sarah Polley and Miriam Toews, the Oscar for Best Adapted Screenplay I haven't viewed the movie yet, but I hope to very soon. It occurs to me this story may provide an archetype of how to conduct a discussion forum like GSC. Do nothing. Stay and fight. Or leave. In 2010, the women of an isolated religious community grapple with reconciling a brutal reality with their faith. Director Sarah Polley Writers Sarah Polley Miriam Toews https://ew.com/the-awardist-podcast/women-talking-ben-whishaw-claire-foy-awardist-podcast/ is a film about community — so perhaps it's no surprise that the cast found real-life fellowship on set. Writer-director Sarah Polley adapted her film from Miriam Toews' 2018 novel, which was in turn based on a true story in Bolivia. The film centers on an isolated group of Mennonite women, all of whom have suffered violent attacks, drugging, and repeated sexual assaults. When the women learn that the perpetrators are men in their own community, they decide to meet secretly in a remote hayloft to decide their next steps. Their options: remain silent, fight back, or leave and try to forge a new future elsewhere. It's heavy subject matter. But there's also a surprising lightness to Women Talking, and the film shines with a communal warmth and flickering humor that lights up even the darkest moments.

Then there's Paine's exposition on The Age of Reason. Paine challenged superstition, but didn't prove the impossibility of synchronicity.

Oh. Okay. How would you explain how such "knowing" came or comes to be? I am aware there are things beyond what humans are capable of perceiving by way of our five senses. I also understand such phenomena aren't limited to bible believing Christians. Others, not from a Christian perspective, I've read describe such as synchronistic events.

Always. Would you please explain how you came to believe spiritual understanding goes further? I don't believe that claim, but I'm open (at the moment) to considering it.