Rocky

Worth noting is how the human need for belonging is strong enough, without the escapee finding what to him/her is a suitable alternative (it might be a church, it might be some other group meaningful to the person), the pull to remain, rejoin, or splinter themselves ("splinter" has more than one possible and reasonable meaning) might become overwhelming. Again, for me, it was leaving twi at the same time as plenty of others with whom I shared an emotional bond already. The "splinter" then unto a full break/dividing out from twi culture took time afterward.

Remember THIS! Your insight is crucial NOW and into the future.

Did he use Google maps?

Here's a poem written by Mary Oliver. Truly, we live with mysteries too marvelous to be understood. How grass can be nourishing in the mouths of the lambs. How rivers and stones are forever in allegiance with gravity while we ourselves dream of rising. How two hands touch and the bonds will never be broken. How people come, from delight or the scars of damage, to the comfort of a poem. Let me keep my distance, always, from those who think they have the answers. Let me keep company always with those who say “Look!” and laugh in astonishment, and bow their heads. ~Mary Oliver Was Wierwille's claim that "he knew that he knew that he knew" a declaration of hubris or simply arrogance? What does Proverbs 16:18 tell us? I seem to remember him teaching about THE GREAT mystery. And then telling us what he believed it was. I tend to side, these days, with Mary Oliver on the subject of mysteries and doubt.

Probably it can be boiled down to one word: trust. They trust you to provide for their needs. Unlike feral felines and canines.

Of course, that number, reported in an Arizona Corporation Commission annual filing, when said filings required such numbers. There was no requirement for auditor verification. There is no longer any requirement for reporting assets to the ACC. So, $65million was simply a marker usable to build suppositions around.

I wouldn't be surprised either and it's certainly not difficult to imagine. But the thing that spurred my question was wondering how much cash did the capo di capos launder by taking "love offerings" at the limb and region meetings they traveled to without properly accounting for personal tax purposes. Sure, the organization "lawfully" got out of paying its share of social security taxes, but people on the payroll still had to pay and file income taxes, right? Except when they could launder those love offerings and just take home some extra cash. Of course, I don't expect you to be able to either calculate or guesstimate. But considering the lavish lifestyle (nowhere near as lush or lavish as Kenneth Copeland), I figure both of them (Wierwille and Martindale) got away with not paying near their fair share of the cost of civilization (taxes). But I digress.

Just ruminating once again on this. In Acts, why did local Christian communities support their pastors and traveling ministers like Paul, or Peter and Barnabas? There are clues in the (scripture) texts right? Did those ministers con their followers into believing they were worthy of undeserved gifts? Or... something else, like exchange of goods or services? Did they make it a social contract of sorts?

Perhaps very closely related to GASLIGHTING. Readers would do well to note how CULTS are not the only (manipulative) organizations to use these or other confidence games. I've run into them from employers and public education entities. Experience is a harsh teacher, but the critical thinking lessons learned are quite valuable. I suspect many organizations employing people do this. My second employer (a small retail chain for which I was hired as an accountant) after graduating from college controlled store managers in a similar way. The president/owner was deeply afraid of networking akin to unionization. She didn't call it "need basis." She simply knew it would jeopardize her empire if she wasn't able to control the information sharing. Guilt was (and perhaps still is) an effective method of psychological manipulation to ensure (or minimize the possibility) the scales on workers'/followers' eyes never fell away... allowing a person to KNOW the TRUTH which could then set them free. How convenient the CULT easily justified the luxuries granted to the one who bought the corporate plane, the conveniently available clandestine meeting place for sexually assaulting attractive young women followers (the bus/motorcoach) and the extravagant motorcycle Wierwille. Because, of course, he was revered. I wonder also how many "love offerings" Wierwille and Martindale were given when they traveled to region or limb meetings in country or overseas.

Indeed. Fear is a natural human reaction at times. It can be lifesaving. That in PFLAP Wierwille dismisses it seems to be just one more way he set the stage for capturing brains for washing. "Don't be afraid of my efforts to indoctrinate you."

IOW, "who wants to know?" It wasn't a mistake on my part. It wasn't a mistake on your part either. It simply wasn't clear to me what you were getting at. Nevertheless, Waysider's contribution essentially cleared it all up.

I know. That's why it's cryptic as I read it. To whom was it attributed BY whom? Anyway, apparently Vlad said it, according to the news item Waysider provided. Thus, we get a bit of Vlad's self-justification for his ego-driven invasion of Ukraine. It also seems apparent how Vlad clearly projected HIS spiritual catastrophe onto "the west." Nevertheless, isn't this a political topic?

To whom is it attributed BY whom? Your post seems quite cryptic.

Hopefully, that something from within you is what drove you to seek out the Greasespot Café. Indeed, T-Bone, your analogy is apt. New reader, I hope you're interested in this adventure.

"The greater the knowledge, the greater the doubt." ~ Johann Wolfgang von Goethe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Wolfgang_von_Goethe

How do they get cult members to work for free? Well, it wasn't necessarily promising 70 virgins upon fulfillment of the mission.

Pastors gotta find a better business model. If I was wanting to figure it out now, I'd be wanting to learn from John Pavlovitz. He spent 25 years as a pastor and became disillusioned with the church. But he still writes, still ministers, and has found ways to subsist.

Wonderful insight. Indeed, it's likely guilt and fear still enchain many. I hope they would begin to imagine life and Christianity differently than the constant grind of "we're right and everyone else proclaiming love for God is sinister." It's a depressing mental framework PFLAP, Wierwille and the insane subCULTure they established. What happened to freedom in Christ?

I appreciate your consideration, Thelonious-Hyphen Bone. Of course we live by faith, not by sight. My take is this is the case primarily because it's not available to live by sight (of God) at this time. My point in the comment you quoted was simply a recognition of the likely still murky awareness we have of what is or would be the Will of God. I distrust, therefore, Wierwille's obsession with precision and exactness (scientific and/or mathematical).

Frankly, that sounds like the making or muse for short stories, or novels, or perhaps an episode or two of the Twilight Zone.

This really seems out of place in this thread.

This DOES seem to be sealioning. Unrelated to the actual discussion.

Perhaps the title of a new subforum can be distilled from this statement.