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Rocky

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Posts posted by Rocky

    Cult Facts: The Way International

    in About The Way

    Posted

    55 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

    If the key word is “try,”

    Yes, that IS the key word. I certainly wouldn't venture a guess on any legal theory they might advance. Even if I had a guess, I wouldn't tell them. :wink2:

    Further, I would surmise they WILL have such a conversation with their legal advocates well before they'll reach the acceptance stage and resign themselves to having to address any lingering deficiencies in their practices. Imagine the kind of resistance to change Stephen King wrote into his alternative history novel 11.22.63 to demonstrate the past's resistance to Jake Amberson's efforts to change it. 

     

    Nostalgia Bias

    in About The Way

    Posted

    9 hours ago, chockfull said:

    I actually am opposed to the nostalgia bias making my life’s decisions and want to and am purposefully crafting my future in the direction best for me, my family, my peace of mind, and my spiritual development outside the constrained inputs from a cult.

    More power to you in that endeavor. :drink:

    Cult Facts: The Way International

    in About The Way

    Posted

    9 hours ago, chockfull said:

    I have no idea who put it up.  It looks like it was done with a bot or LLM tool.  For every claim they state they cite a source.  So even if some of the claims seem exaggerated they literally have a source where a leader or account verifies the statement.

    Intriguing insight. Yes, my first impression was that it took a LOT of work to put it together. My second impression was that much of it could be exaggerated. Then again, maybe that was my first impression and that it took a lot of work was second.

    Wired dot com says Large language models (LLM tools) like AI chatbots seem to be everywhere. If you understand them better, you can use them better.

    Your insight, that it's likely whoever put it together, did so with AI, seems very intriguing.

    You probably hit the nail on the head as far as what they could learn about how to more honestly handle "research." Will they? Maybe once they get people who know how to use the new AI chatbots. :confused:

    Then again, maybe not. :spy:

    My hunch is they'll see if their lawyers can figure out a way to get the page about them taken down before they get to the acceptance stage and decide to revamp the HQ corporate culture.

     

     

    Cult Facts: The Way International

    in About The Way

    Posted

    Somebody put A LOT of work into this linked website. Overall, the site is not limited in its research/claims/explanations of the cult with which we are most familiar.

    However, the eye catching claim at the top of the page for TWI is "Up to fifty high-ranking members conspired to coerce followers into having sex with the leaders"

    https://www.cultfacts.com/cults/the-way-international

    If you don't want to check it out, that's okay with me too. :spy:

    Was I Just Witnessed To?

    in About The Way

    Posted

    Intriguing. To answer your question directly, I suppose YES, she could have been. But in and of itself, it proves very little, perhaps only that she values her time and surmised it would be very unlikely you would be interested if she continued the exchange.

    To ponder other possibilities... may or may not stay with you for a long time. :wink2:

     

     

    Why am I still a Christian?

    in Atheism, nontheism, skepticism: Questioning Faith

    Posted

    On 11/16/2023 at 6:22 PM, WordWolf said:

    Just to clarify, what I meant by "basis in reality"...

    I dislike people making up their own definitions for things.  Ever see someone say they're a vegan but they eat meat?  If someone claims to be a pacifist, I don't expect to see them starting fist-fights in the street.   So, if someone claims they're a "Christian",  it's expected that they believe Jesus of Nazareth is/was the CHRIST, thus the name.  I mind less the person who's clear they don't believe the Bible than the person who doesn't but claims they do.   

     

    15 hours ago, chockfull said:

    Christianity with a non Fundamentalist view is very different to all of us raised in Fundamentalist teachings.  We expect an exact answer to everything when that is not realistic and is not life.  

    YES! :wave:

    Why am I still a Christian?

    in Atheism, nontheism, skepticism: Questioning Faith

    Posted

    16 hours ago, WordWolf said:

    I have no opinion on her testimony.  I don't remember the last time I've actually opened one of your video links.  I open few of them on the GSC in general, and yours even less.  I find that posting a link with little or no indication as to WHY it's posted looks like homework. I'm not sifting through 15 minutes or more of video just because someone else wanted me to.  This is a DISCUSSION board, so I expect DISCUSSION, and if a video is posted, I don't just click on it devoid of DISCUSSION. 

    You make some good points there. As to not clicking on links without knowing what it is, THAT is why I post the preview. If that doesn't interest you, fine. Don't participate in any discussion about something you don't care to view.

    However, I pick up a bit of an attitude in your comment. :wink2:

    I do, however, disagree with you about not providing a starting place for discussion.

    On 11/11/2023 at 4:04 PM, Rocky said:

    Historian Kristin Du Mez responds to the question from the Holy Post podcast. Kristin has written Jesus and John Wayne. 

    Pardon me if I didn't provide ENOUGH discussion to interest you. :love3: I certainly did NOT give anyone a homework assignment.

    If there are other things contributing to your mood, I wish you well.

    Why am I still a Christian?

    in Atheism, nontheism, skepticism: Questioning Faith

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

    I dislike people making up their own definitions for things.  Ever see someone say they're a vegan but they eat meat?  If someone claims to be a pacifist, I don't expect to see them starting fist-fights in the street.   So, if someone claims they're a "Christian",  it's expected that they believe Jesus of Nazareth is/was the CHRIST, thus the name.  I mind less the person who's clear they don't believe the Bible than the person who doesn't but claims they do.

    Isn't that STILL you declaring judgment on a person for their words even when you don't know what's in their heart?

    Fine, you don't like it. Fine, you "mind less..." but how does that impact what you believe your responsibility as a Christian would be to such people? Whether it's apparent incongruity about their salvation or anything else?

    I mean, come on... I'm not judging you. I'm just asking you to judge your words and your actions.

    Why am I still a Christian?

    in Atheism, nontheism, skepticism: Questioning Faith

    Posted

    2 hours ago, TLC said:

    So, now you're going to attack me for merely posting my opinion on the piece?

    Attack? What attack? 

    Wasn't I merely posting my opinion?

    Touchy much?

    Are you saying "freedom of speech"  protects you from someone reflecting on and calling attention to what you post?

    37 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

    One thing I've noticed, TLC, is people claiming they're Christian without any real basis in reality.   I saw someone claim outright they didn't believe in the Bible AND didn't believe Jesus is/was the Christ/Messiah.  I mean, it's right in the name!  So, I brought that up, and someone came in loudly, saying they didn't need to justify their claim despite having their own definition for Christian. 

    Are you saying people who claim to be Christian DO have to justify themselves in words?

    Whatever happened to no one knows, other than God, what's in the heart of a person?

    I mean, it's not like putting someone on trial for a crime, is it?

    So, WordWolf, are you saying you have an opinion about Kristin du Mez' testimony? If so, why not just post it in terms of what your response is to her words?

     

    Why am I still a Christian?

    in Atheism, nontheism, skepticism: Questioning Faith

    Posted

    1 hour ago, TLC said:

    Well, I listened to (all of) on my morning walk, and I don’t think you missed a thing.  Not a single word or mention of the resurrection (which is the crux of Christianity) in her entire diatribe.  So frankly, that tends to make me wonder if she even is a Christian.  Maybe she is, or maybe she isn’t… I don’t know (and don’t much care), but as a professed teacher (or critic… however one might refer to her), she should certainly know better. 
     

    Whether you believe that Jesus is or isn’t God (which she seems to think matters, but it wasn't very clear to me what her position on that is), or profess that God loves you, or that Jesus is Lord, or claim to walk in his name or power… or anything else, for that matter… matters not one single whit without (truly) believing in your heart that God raised Christ from the dead. 
     

    And honestly, I view everyone in that same light, including those that were at anytime involved with the Way Ministry (or S.I.T.). There is one criteria for being a Christian, and one criteria alone.

    Holy CARP! I mean WOW! I had no idea that YOU, TLC (does that still mean Tender Loving Care?) are the ULTIMATE JUDGE?

    Here's the first 12 verses of the Book of James chapter 4

    1What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you? 2You desire but do not have, so you kill. You covet but you cannot get what you want, so you quarrel and fight. You do not have because you do not ask God. 3When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.

    4You adulterous people, a don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. 5Or do you think Scripture says without reason that he jealously longs for the spirit he has caused to dwell in us b ? 6But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says:

    “God opposes the proud

    but shows favor to the humble.” c

    7Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. 10Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.

    11Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister d or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?

    ****

    OTOH, I posted the YT video, not to evaluate or cast aspersions on historian Kristin du Mez's personal testimony (about anything) but rather to address a different question, which, she for herself, answers as well as or better than anyone could answer for her.

    As for myself, I asked Ham for clarification. As best I can tell, he wonderfully clarified the message underlying his comment. I appreciate him having done so.

    I wish for you today, a huge heaping helping of tender loving care... whether you identify as a Christian or not. :love3: :cryhug_1_:

    Lets destroy a Friday Night.

    in Open

    Posted

    3 hours ago, Ham said:

    Nowhere, is there Warmth to be Found.. no kidding.

    Well... plenty of warmth available, perhaps you have to give to someone who might need it.

    Not so easy to have regenerative conversation with you, however, since your posts seem entirely, since you re-emerged, to be excessively cryptic.

    I suspect there might be others willing to share warmth with you if you were to be less cryptic.

    Take care friend. :cryhug_1_: 

    Branches off the Idiom of Permission thread

    in Atheism, nontheism, skepticism: Questioning Faith

    Posted

    13 hours ago, sirguessalot said:

    Thanks. Yeah, felt like slipping in the back door and quietly pulling up a chair. Been lurking a bit. This conversation pulled me in. 

    As my manner is, I picked up this book from my local public library today. You're Not Listening: What You're Missing and Why it Matters. To some, this may seem off topic, but I submit it goes somewhat directly to Twinky's concern AND to the noticeably cerebral post our good friend sirguessalot interjected. I mean that in a positive way. :wave:  And I am almost certainly as lacking as anyone in effort put into "listening" to my fellow GSC posters.

    45892276.jpg

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