4 hours ago, chockfull said:

She has a blend of her story plus supporting evidence which consists of others stories all with referenced sources unlike “the collaterals”.

i mean maybe those of you heavily invested in writing memoirs can figure out how to stay in first person and come off “more authentic”.

Rather than be irritated by her switching from first person to third person voice I look at it like at least she did a better job than her “father in da Verd”.

The Way Internationals continual denial of plagiarism claims has karma coming back around to bite them in the butt with accurately footnoted anecdotal accounts of immorality.

She can do what she wants, obviously. It's not a matter of me (anything). It's a matter of what she wants to do or accomplish with what she writes.

More power to her. However, for her to see more impact (power) from her writing, she's got some work to do.

If all she wants is to say it, great. She'll get all the feedback her readers care to give her. 

5 hours ago, oldiesman said:

Hi Penworks, thx for that!    I know of one other interpretation by TWI that was posted on GS once, from Free Spirit Magazine arguing against late-term abortion written by D. Craley that if the baby can live by itself outside the womb, it's presumed to have its own soul and shouldn't be aborted.   I think the piece was from the 80s.    But that quote from 1971 is amazing and should have settled it!

Regarding D Craley, I'm confident he would never have been in the shoes of a woman with a late-term pregnancy. If he wrote such an op-ed, bless his heart. But it's important for anyone giving any thought to what such a woman would be going through, I suspect NO healthy woman, with a healthy pregnancy, and a healthy fetus, would even be considering aborting.

Just sayin'. Not opining in this comment about the morality of abortion at any stage of a pregnancy. Just trying to imagine such a scenario.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08N866JX4/

A very quick search on Goodreads.com brought this title, Writing the Memoir: From Truth to Art by Judith Barrington.

I haven't read the book, but about 20 years ago I took a college class on Newswriting, because I was working for a small newspaper and didn't have a journalism degree.

The instructor was a seasoned journalist and editor. Beside the basic who, what, when, where, how, and why, he drove home that news writing is NOT done well in passive voice.

That's even more important in memoir. EVERY human has a story, actually LOTS of stories.

Stories make humanity sane, actually. What in the world did humans do BEFORE the internet? Before message boards? Before the printing press?

If they wanted to effectively communicate important lessons from generation to generation, they had to have LOTS of storytellers.

Everyone here CAN be a good storyteller, even Mike. Even me.

But it's a skill that needs to be developed and sharpened throughout one's life in order to be effective.

/rant

5 hours ago, chockfull said:

2 Way Corps examples - Victor Barnard and Steve Sann

Yeah, those two definitely are not reasonable Christlike models of behavior. But so what?

What is the purpose of any person writing any memoir or memoir like short piece?

2 hours ago, chockfull said:

Now back to regularly scheduled abortion convo.

That would be a violation of GSC rules. 

2 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:

It was constantly reinforced that women were inferior in teaching and treatment and we were told not to use any birth control, leading to many unwanted pregnancies. The Way would then support and pay for abortions, which were not a sin according to their teachings.

I've been trying to figure out why this substack doesn't sit right with me.

The way this person wrote it, she is NOT telling HER story.

That won't mean anything to anyone who needs to hear HER STORY.

Her story might help people needing to escape the cult or wise up before they get caught up in it.

This quote is just weak sauce.

WHAT did this human see and hear? Did SHE experience an unwanted pregnancy? If so, how did it make her feel? How did she cope with the emotional and medical ramifications of the pregnancy? What was HER outcome?

Maybe this human writer needs to read some of the work on vulnerability Brené Brown has published.

Btw, a discussion about abortion policies in and of itself is a political topic.

A retelling of history of TWI is retelling of historical events. For them to matter to readers, they have to come off as authentic.

54 minutes ago, chockfull said:

Another personal account of damage experienced by a member of TWI.  This person highlights the step by step indoctrination process….

https://jenniferhaha.substack.com/p/black-friday-cyber-monday-cult-expose?utm_campaign=post

Victor P. Wierwille! 

The version of this someone sent me yesterday had a claim about it being illegal to quote Way Corps grads. That was a deal breaker for me. But this one, though VERY long appears to not have that claim in it. I appreciate her formatting of Victor's name.

44 minutes ago, waysider said:

Oxygen and carbon dioxide are exchanged via the placenta, not the lungs..

Picky, picky, picky. 

3 hours ago, waysider said:

"The Word" said whatever Wierwille wanted it to say. Problem solved.

Or as I like to say, self-justifying rationalization. 

45 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

Sounds to me like she's a Christian, but it doesn't really matter to me. We agree on at least one thing, though: grabbing women by the ***** is not very Christ-like.

Sounds like it to me also. And yes, grabbing women by the vulva is not very Christlike. 

5 hours ago, Raf said:

Again, neither of these women owes me an explanation for anything. But IF they were looking to persuade me, they did not.

 Then again, IF they just wanted to say what they said, more power to them. They didn't persuade me of anything either. However, why would ANYone demand they justify their belief? Maybe they just want to say what they wanted to say.

Religion despite the fundamentalist perspective we embraced for a(n apparently brief) time in our lives, my view is people are not persuaded by logic, except some of the time in American courts of law. And not even then are people (even judges/justices) convinced by facts absent emotional arguments.

I just don't give two hoots why any person claims to be a Christian. I DO believe, despite significant emotional events that cause adults to change their views dramatically (i.e. Apostle Paul), in the world today, and despite decreasing embrace of churches (as we understood the term before we even had heard the Greek word ekklesia), many people are Christian because that's how they were raised. IOW, cultural anthropology. 

Then again, for people who still hold to the view that to be a "genuine" Christian, one must believe that Jesus Christ was raised from the dead), more power to them for their belief. And more peace to them by hopefully letting go of the need to convert others.

1 hour ago, Raf said:

Finally listened to this video and read up on Ms. Ali.

Neither impressed me much from a religious standpoint. They didn't make or defend an argument for Christianity, but they expressed strong feelings about being Christian, with which I cannot really argue.

Neither of them owes me an explanation, for that matter, but I guess I expected more. That's on me.

Of course, what's a more reasonable expectation than for a person professing to be or adhere to a given flavor of faith to say she WANTS to believe it?

Now, IF such a person declares she intends to offer an intellectual or academic argument for the particular faith, that would be a different story.

On 10/17/2023 at 1:52 PM, Rocky said:

https://youtube.com/shorts/JPJ4sCkKtDI?si=AYguydEHmYw3R_q7

The reason this didn't come up with a preview is that there is an emoji in the description.

Neil de Grasse Tyson talks about eternal curiosity.

Not that the way I look at the issue matters to anyone (no homework assignment here  ) but I see the question of raising a child as an atheist is a question distinct from but still sort of related to morality without religion.

What happens when society stops worshipping God?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Zuckerman 

https://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/phil-zuckerman/

1 hour ago, Stayed Too Long said:

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Wow. I like the "ever learning" part of that, but wonder about "never able to come to the knowledge of truth."

One of the most profound "truths" I've learned over the decades seems to be that the more I learn, the more there is TO learn.

Problems to be solved, individually and societally, present questions to answered.

So far, these ideas, concepts and notions are abstract.

I also wonder if never being able to come to the knowledge of the truth is also abstract... or if it becomes relational, or only understandable when reflected upon in the context of whatever problem humankind faces (or faces down) at any moment.

For example, society apparently has learned how to harness physical power to escape the gravity and atmosphere of Earth. In that context, "we" have come to fundamental knowledge of certain physical truths/realities.

So, in terms of the OP, you posed to us, is there some particular context or for a specific problem you want to come closer to knowledge of truth?

That could open up the entire realm of philosophy for endless discussion.

In terms of "throwing money at" particular problems to solve them, are you curious about any other strategies to solve any given problem(s) other than public or private investment in potential solutions?

-----

On THAT subject, a book that found me over the last week on that very problem, Big Bets: How Large-Scale Change Really Happens, does in fact explore questions of complexities a society encounters when it (or some people in it) want to solve potentially massive problems.

Money, in this context, is a proxy for resources. Relevant resources to solve problems include time, the effort of experts, manufacturing facilities, and so forth.

From the Goodreads blurb about the book and its author,

Rajiv J. Shah is no stranger to pulling off the impossible, from helping vaccinate 900 million children at the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation to a high-pressure race against the clock to stop the spread of Ebola. His secret? A big bets philosophy—the idea that seeking to solve problems rather than make incremental improvements can attract the unlikely partners with the power and know-how to achieve transformational change. Part career sweeping memoir, part inspirational playbook, Big Bets offers a master class in decision-making, leadership, and changing the world one bet at a time.

Shah animates his strategic insights with vivid behind-the-scenes stories, memorable conversations with household names that helped shape his approach to creating change, and his own personal growth as an Indian-American from an immigrant family looking for a way to belong. He distills his battle-tested strategies for creating change, arguing that big bets have a surprising advantage over cautious ones: a bold vision can attract support, collaborations, and fresh ideas from key players who might otherwise be resistant. Throughout the book, Shah traces his unlikely path to the Rockefeller Foundation across a changing world and through some of the most ambitious, dramatic global efforts to create a better world.

-----

Nevertheless, your question inspires me. It also has me recall Albert Einstein's reflection on imagination.

“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.”

― Albert Einstein

and my current favorite bible passage:

2 My son, if you accept my words
    and store up my commands within you,
² turning your ear to wisdom
    and applying your heart to understanding—
³ indeed, if you call out for insight
    and cry aloud for understanding,
⁴ and if you look for it as for silver
    and search for it as for hidden treasure,
⁵ then you will understand the fear of the Lord
    and find the knowledge of God.

22 hours ago, Stayed Too Long said:

In her next breath she said, “oh well, I guess He has a good reason putting me through this.” 

Humans, even those not suffering any form of dementia, are quite often prone to misguided rationalizations.

It also has occurred to me over the last day or so that Christianity (and plenty of other religious belief systems) present/impose an adversarial worldview to any and everyone who embrace it.

I'm not saying I completely disbelieve God, but reflecting on my last four or five decades, I can't say I've benefitted from this particular adversarial framework. 

10 hours ago, Twinky said:

Those who can't or won't learn from failures will be victims all their lives, with chips the size of skyscrapers on their shoulders.

Eloquent. Poignant. 

https://www.guilford.com/books/The-Mindful-Self-Compassion-Workbook/Neff-Germer/9781462526789

https://www.amazon.com/Mindful-Self-Compassion-Workbook-Yourself-Strength-ebook/dp/B07FJQ8WS1/

Beats the heck out of condemning oneself for not complying with cult demands. 

A person who accepts his/herself is able to fit in, "belong," or feel comfortable with healthier groups. 

On 3/26/2023 at 3:09 PM, Rocky said:

When it comes to these questions, physicists have learned a lot in the past century. Their progress makes clear that the limits of science are not fixed; they move as we learn more about the world. Correspondingly, some belief-based explanations that once aided sensemaking and gave comfort we now know to be just wrong. ...

****

Not that I'm at all qualified to expound on the dichotomy between science and religion, but I find Dr Hossenfelder's insight compelling.

I wonder... if human perception which has obvious limits causes humankind to recognize some things without being able to investigate the scientific bases for the given phenomenon. This YT clip is long, but not as long, yet still understandable (or at least a listener can follow the words) by speeding it up. I find 1.75x workable for this purpose. 

Brian Greene is a scientist, author, and a darn good teacher. At least he tries to make things accessible for people who are not physicists. (yes... er, NO, this is not a homework assignment.) If you're interested, fine. If not, also fine. 

"One of the most unexpected gifts you can receive is an early loss.

• Missing out on a job you really wanted.
• Trying a business idea that fails.
• Suffering a heartbreak.

An early setback can become the catalyst for a wonderful next chapter—if you channel the emotion effectively.

Disappointment is a hot burning fuel. Let it light your fire to become better."

James Clear, author of Atomic Habits

James Clear seems to be all about showing people how to shed their victimhood and maximize their agency.

In that regard, I'm most grateful (besides for YOU, dear reader) for being on the doorstep of the next chapter of my life. 

As a nephew noted to me recently, I have a voice and can reach (some) people. I'm excited to see what that will look like as I am about to embark on my 70th trip around the sun. I must have blinked somewhere along the line, because I could have sworn I had just turned 34 and had my first offspring. The ride has been kinda bumpy. But I'm still upright and more thankful than ever.   

1 hour ago, Ham said:

they would not recognize the Devil if he bit them in the foot.. lets see how the profanity filter works here..\

There are ways around it. Balaam's a s s or a$$ or a.s.s.

5 hours ago, chockfull said:

You know if TWI leadership actually had an honest heart before God they would not be shunning us here they would be celebrating us.  

Their followers are too scared of being shunned to tell them the truth.  We are not.  We tell them the truth whether they want to whitewash it or not.  Whether they want to kill the messenger or not.

But they hate the truth.  They love their positions and adulation.  They love having articles about how great they are in public magazines broadcast to the few that will cave in to be under their thumb.

With the greater independent thought of the youth in todays world that is less and less people all the time.

Send out another postcard run.  Tell yourself how that is moving “the Word” over the world.  At least the Gideons place something of use in public that someone can open, read, pray to God with.  Not a hype postcard.

You might be right. It's available to psychoanalyze a group by deciphering behaviors of people in the group even if one is not able to see into the heart of the individuals.  

So, the more we ponder this cult facts website, can we be more certain it was generated by an AI?

And will this computer science professor inadvertently provide TWI lawyers with legal theories on which to litigate over the matter?

It's hard to say right now.

As to being able to recognize the site was built using AI, I think back to 9/11/2001. When the first plane hit the first WTC tower, it wasn't immediately certain it was an act of terrorism. After the second plane hit the second tower, it was easy to infer it had been a coordinated terrorist attack. 

I don't consider THIS (development of the cult facts website) to be a coordinated terrorist attack, but it's probably fair to surmise each of the cults included on the website will characterize it as such????