mj412

I live in a huge RC town, I am not RC, but in my sphere of speaking and working with them, it is not like "us". haha RC look at you funny when ya metion God or spirit it is about rituals and tradition and rules and regulations and who knows who at church... how the priest is a family friend power and playing kind of stuff. not so much purpose and education . I have never gone to confession but I know people who have confessed or spoken to their priests and it helps them get along in life. I do not think the RC, want huge reform and change for the most part it is status quo. some do. and they often break off from the "real" church because of it... but they want the strength of the church ie.. money and support. The church doesnt work that way .

I thinking it may be a long process to do anything politcal in the RC church... If the pope made enough risky politcal moves to remove certain problems.. would HE be allowed to be the POPE? If it is as accepted and wide spread as some claim .. maybe not. To win friends and influence people takes more than a pretty face for some and the climb is a struggle once seated who wants to be dethroned? I actualy worked with a defrocked priest at a store once and he was the slimy nasty man, still wore the black shirt and all . Now he didnt have the what it takes to go with the system I imagine those who can and do make it to such power in the church ... are tough players indeed. POPE included. why would he jepordize it? They like all religous leaders truly think they are God like to the degree many do not "get". YET in their own ranks they 'get " it.

I also think if a person leaves something that is important to them because it has issues such as sex crimes they are not helping they are hurting the group and leaving those who can harm another in charge. In twi I got wise and said I didnt want to fight the fact few would admit to problems... and that is the problems in most groups people do not want to admit the problems.. just go along and play your part. personaly I do not thiink I can advocate "change" in twi,, some still do and some just do not hear or see any problems becuase they chose not to. it is the same in RC . I will not shame those who want to make a positive difference in any group.

Well is this about blaming the victims Satori? Like you shpould know better if you belong to the RC church, YOU should KNOW that priests have comminted Sex crimes... so your just as guilty if you get molested? I think not. As far as turning the other way and NOT seeing issues within structures (nearly ANY structure or govt.) We are ALL guilty of it some how or some where , name your price. Most of us have jobs and know of "unfairness" or even down right discrimination , in family units it goes the same way.. I honestly cant think of any group that doesnt "enable" their own in some manner.. again name your price and what is important to you. principles to live by are set by individuals and it is a happy day when we find a structure that meets our own in much , But it is NEVER absolute for everyone in any form or dictate. The RC church has never doctrinated sex with minor children. They and particularly this POPE has santicfied Life beyond most churches really... When it gets to the point a person compromises to much of their intregrity they leave groups until then we enable the group to survive on its bad and good. As far as money people give money because they want to give few detail exactly what it is doing HENCE the ability of groups to survive. Scandal is not only in The RC church it is everywhere money and people are involved everywhere..

I agree these type of issues cross many sections and groups in society. To be a preditor one must find prey, also the reporting and convictions of such crimes have moved forward alot. Shame for the victims becomes lessened when public notice of such becomes bigger and more accepted. I do NOT think the fact priests are not allowed to be married has anything to do with this issue at all. Sexual atttraction to children does NOT come from sexual urges in general it comes from a warped mind and most probably a victim . Makes me wonder why one would seek the priesthood could it be to avoid the sexual issues that they have from their own life? or even the psossibility of exposure to children with a wider scale of trust? If it is believed a homosexual KNows from a young age he /she is homosexual then it falls to reason a person would also 'know" how they respond sexualy to children from a young age. this would be a reeason to "seek" forgivness given the response our society has towards phediphiles. the church would fall into an easy way to either avoid or seek children in such a case wouldnt it?

of course they will Satori, what eles is there? Such is the gain of all of mans plans and ideas . the victims serve in a manner that allows facts to be presented and that IS very much a new ideal in the church. they will not lose their head by Kings order hopefully as in times past.. so progress is made, the least any can hope for I suppose. the institution will not fail , people rise and fall in any govt.

the first time I left I was afraid as well cried for weeks if not months... the second time I was not afraid I was convinced and the off-shoot deal just depressed me with the realization wow it was not ever about me at all..

The RC church is a govt. even a religous govt. has rules and players to maintain. This pope rode on the power of religon, who can really claim any different? Influence and power of the RC's is part of History for thousands of years. As far as scandal goes all govt. and power players will have scandal it is the NAME of the game . Is it wrong? up for each to decide I thnk . The chance the church takes is the level of love and worship this pope has from the people compared to the scandals . In my opinion they do NOT worry to much what the people may think. It is a religon with money and power and influence who can harm them? again many believe the link to God is bigger than any issues the group may have.

Emotions and the ability to reason comes from our thoughts. Our thoughts come from our brain. when damaged due to illness or accident it is reasonable to admit that these areas of thought are also "changed" in some manner. This may mean point blank personality changes, such as a very logical person becoming very uncertain or a very happy go lucky kind of guy or girl may now be very serious etc. How recovery and its trouble and success also plays into ones emotions so the degrees and outcomes are never certain or able to be calculated. Yet folks are seldom told this by dr. much less family members are family member made aware of the fact. The reason is no one wants to predict an outcome in a less than favorable light or even guess what may happens to ones "personality" when these things happen. I have a sister who had a stroke in her fifties, her own children admit her personality has changed to a huge degree, it may be the stress of recovery but more important it is also the brain is not the same and she thinks differntly and feels emotions differently. she has no patience for her grandchildren now , and a number of other rather radical concerns have come up. To look and have a conversation with my sister YOU would never know she had a stroke, yet we all notice that she is not the same as she was in many ways.. emotional consideration are complex but in injury or illness the brain will and does compensate in fantastic ways but not often without a cost to who the individual may have been in thoughts and abilty to display and handle emotional contents previous to the problem. the ignorance of loved ones and the hesitation from the medical community to educate these families compound the situations and complex decisions that have to be made after such situations. Maybe before the accident you knew this person to be sure to feel a certain way about a manner YET now they have done a 180 and you may not realize why, it is part of the injury and the process the brain takes to repair itself and I personaly believe a person own will to live within who they are now (we are what we think) . Does a family have a right to decide from a persons past life before injury that is how they must feel now? People are allowed to change and in these types of cases are forced to change who they are. Who is a family memeber husband or not to say it must not be good enough ?

why would ya have to practice then? and why would it so general as to not make a difference or very detailed for those who they knew and trusted in the group? I do not get it. I will tell you I know I have had others "speak for God" to me, I believe it completely. I for the longest time couldnt figure out this prolem I had went to dr. prayed sought consel, then one day I said something in passing to a group of artist I was with one night as we sat around doing our work, just the hum of conversation going around ya know.. no details nothing then this girl said something and I dropped my brush.. it was the answer. I knew it all along but had completely forgotten it. I looked at her and she never so much as lifted her eyes from her work. I stood amazed and awestruck and the fact there it was the answer completely. she didnt realize. I said this is amazing just amazing and another chimed in yes it is as if she felt it to. I truly believ it was Holy spirit and the body working together . but this PP stuff that CES does is a magic show and tell.

I thank you for sharing Ttessa. I think what I learned most from your post is the very fact it is NOT the same outcome or reality for anyone when serious injury or illness happens. I have taught life skill in rehab to a few with disabilities and brain injuries. I had one who has stayed with me she was a star atheletic performer on her way to the state championships and went through a windshield from the back seat and hit a brick fence on the side of the road. her memory capacity was about twenty minutes max. her rehab was three years in the hospital do to physical injuries on top of the brain injuries I worked with her one on one in a group home. I will give you an example of how this girl lived, she would forget to finish her sandwhich if not prompted that she was eating lunch and then state she was hungry. A phone call from a friend or loved one would be forgoten as she hung up and traveled to her bedroom to get changed to go out, she would forget why she was in her room changing. she was and is a brillant beautiful young lady. Her parents both ministers divorced over the truama and heartbreak of the accident they were not injured in the accident and dad point blank said he longer longer can have a relationship with his daughter or vist as she wouldnt remember him coming anyway. (she didnt) and he didnt know this girl with the cane his daughter was an athletic performer who was the top honor student in her class .. here is the part I want you to read sounds not so bad Imean talk about living in the moment right? Well three months to the day EXACTLY she would remember the day ok? get that she could recall every single detail conversation what she wore what she did who she interacted with what kind of car she rode in.. three months to the day after the day... the brain is a mystery. conversation where something i had to be trained in with her I told her where I lived one day thinking she will not remember by the time we get done with breakfast. she didnt . To the day three months later she showed up at my door step with her aid stating this is where I lived and she came to see me. FREAKY huh? fliped me out it did. I loved her so , she wanted children and I said how are you going to have a child when you cant remember if you ate breakfast? But we rehab and with help she will be allowed to have a child if her inuries permit. she was sexualy active before the accident she is allowed privite vist with her boyfirend another brain injury person. differnt problems tho. If she was a virgin before the accident, she would have never been allowed sexual vists in her orders, (for life!!!0 she didnt understand sex she just knew her boyfriend liked it she never remembered it anyways. on the days of recall I found myself depressed I would hear her tell exactly how bad somone treated her (it is easy to abuse somone who cant remember you were even in the room! a few momnets later) Her family couldnt handle her . she lived in a group home with other disabled people who spent little time with her because she was not disabled she was different. And she was not born disabled and often wondered why in heck she had to live with retarded people!!!! They didnt have to have constant supervision and thought she was a baby and spoiled about things in the house. TV forget about it no movies either what is the point by the time you get to a story line she forgot the first part. She was able to read but again it doesnt make sense when you get to page three because page one and two where gone... if she felt independent and wandered away for ten minutes without me at her side YES bathroom included!!! she would forget where she was. Life was one big loop of Hi my name is *** Im your aid today,(although I lived with her for many months. she never had a clue who the hell was talking to her. it just didnt matter anyway. On the day of recall three months I walked in to see her and she said Hi Insert my real name) I about passed out, I said you know me huh ? she giggled and said yeah today I do.. but she would ONLY remember the day from three months previous nothing before or after. what a brillant woman she was. I miss her . my point , Ttessa with all you can do you can understand , you know how difficult this process of recovery is. My girl was at maximum recovery they said she would get "any better". You can reach these folks and help alot I bet if you desire..just an idea. As far as terry case I just have seen it over and over Other people UNABLE to cope with another injury or illness and the mass changes it brings everyone involved so they think they KNOW what would best. they often do not . and in terrys case she didnt have directives he decided and Im angry he could determine whether she should DIE. she didnt die from her stroke she died of his hand and choice to withhold food and water, I do not think anyone has that right other than the individual of sound mind and body. if their is a question then allow life. if the person has decided what is best for them then so be it... it is their Choice. Working with this young lady is the only way I was able to let go of the anger I had in my life.. she ended up healing me. It is easy to say let it go and not be bitter BUT not so easy when you have been hurt. it is easy to say today is a new day lets be glad but not so easy to DO , with her I learned how to live in the moment really lol (oh we had some fun) and be thankful for what I got right in front of me!!! because she had to live like that I learned the joy of letting go of alot of deressing thoughts and attitudes about what we think is important. I may have been paid a salary to help her live her life but she is the one who really changed my own for the better. I guess I can relate to terrys parents, ya know, sometimes we do not recognize how valuable someone is untill we realize how much we change just for the loving of them. to me it is enough in life and always will be. it is the reason I want to live every single day.

Again maybe it is me and growing up. with the pope and all the comments made today and this weekend it seemed well almost peaceful and like God was involved, I find it more than Ironic the guy did most of his suffering EASTER week ,(makes ya go hmm when ya think about it) and he really did have the Lord all the way through and to me testified of how to live and how to die with Jesus as Lord. He always gloried God and never complained and his priests and people in command of the situation they didnt freak out and want to start a mutiny right away they know the time thing and are willing to allow the holy spirit do its job within them . I heard one priest say repeatly today it is up to the holy spirit within the men now to do its work to find out what the next pope amy be or mean. what a contrast instead of bitching and complaining about who did what when wrong and who is right now!!!! like in twi when VPW died. i remember John Lynns tape about how Ralph Do and others were losing their mind and unable to function when VPW was dying. the priest and the laymen on the council in Rome look steadfast and speak of the Lord and holy spirit in stead of blaming confusion and disorder on the fog of a mans death. they seem less afraid and more trusting of what the Lord will and does do for them, compared to utter devastation and flip out and mocking of one another when vpw died. Quite a constrast indeed . but then everyone knew who was top dog in twi when vpw died and that did have some of the problems , In Rome they all must wait and go through many days and rituals before any real changes will be seen. maybe after the new pope is seated the fighting and nutso behaviours will start but then maybe not it just appears so much more orderly and organized to me in the RC church and its processes of assiging a new pope. People are actualy still faithful looking to God as the pope is dead, in twi people became fearful and fighting and blaming.

Im a curly coated retriever! cute little film of him with somone pulling his tail!

CES was founded and is built on "friendships" with that line of who is who of course. So naturly this works for its followers they are so into what the other guy may think or do and pleasing one another and making it happen for one another, mostly the leaders. PP is a get together, feel good, God loves us more thing . The emotionalism of God speaking to you for another, is just one step further into trust me, just trust me, God speaks through us. WE are special and have the power. YOU need us to make God really happy. WE can do it right and if you listen so can YOU maybe someday. I remeber the practice sesions for the intermediate class when only they knew if you were doing it right or not. alot of power is given to the leaders in these practice sessions to manipulate and train another to seek them as the ones in the know for God. To be able to succeed in this again "inner circle " of knowing more and better than the rest cements loyalty and obedience.

Indeed Im certain it is as the pope dictates, but it is a govt. and they are in the rally call stage now with the back stage set for what will happen next. kind of eery but needs to be done I guess.

oh yes and the courage to tell it to them face to face. before I was stupid and thought God must have loved them more for some deed or action . hmpf 180 on that now!

alot. I see grace in action for real now. My children who were raised with pfal said I was religous, and I do not think so I was twi ish. I respected people alot more and they had alot more say over how I felt or did or lived then. I really cant imagine anyone getting to middle age and still allowing others to tell them how to live. But then I look at the off shoots and realize the biggest 180 I did is I just do not need anyones approval anymore. I find extremly IRONIC how the leaders will preach how they stand approve before God, not man YET have a fast word on what each of their follers need to do next to get right with God. I have more esteem for the Lord and His position in my life. I have less esteem for what a man or woman can accomplish playing God in the flesh for money and support.

The nuns were ordered not to pray for his recovery. it is assumed he will die now, I watch the priests this morning saying he is "tranquil" . How can I be ordred to pray for a peaceful death? man that is strange to me, but it as the church dictates.

interesting how fearand shame motivates isnt it? Gosh I think I realize Mr. Aar, doesnt believe in Jesus or God, but on many items we agree and I sit on the witness throne of being a christian . it is funny , but good. Jesus talked to the woman with the seven husbands come on is that a whore or what? He healed her and told her to sin no more no words of locking up just to "be sure" it never happens again or paying pentence to the nuns in the bible. also in the old testiment ESTER one of my favorites USED her beauty to save her people. by Gods order!!!!! some of this religous crap is more removed from how God understands us as people than questioning what it all may mean ya know?

if the baby was able he/she would have gone home with the mom . I hope the baby is doing well. Galen late tuesday (after midnight) is wednesday they are writing to have you notice the baby was born on tuesday not wednesday . but admited into the hospital into intensive care wednesday. not to confusing. no it is not normal a baby would be in intenisve care if all was fine. that is why Im guessing he/she may be early or got cold or had trouble of some sort. what trauma for them both.

Irealize you asked Kit but I will say the article clearly states in the last paragragh that mom went home and baby stayed in intensive care . sounds like she delivered early, and paniced wow I admire her ability to keep it together as much as she did. poor lady.

To me it is a feel good , people pleasing minstry deed of work. it attracts as dmiller testifys. It can also deny God as the father , as I have witnessed personal prophecy that has freaked people OUT for many years. It is a distraction, and an attention seeking behaviour that makes for a fine show and tell that people get excited about. They show up for it and if blessed and happy will give whatever they can for the good news of confirmation. How exciting God told me that I was wonderful!!!!! blah blah. I know in CES they want to find out as much personal information about you as possible because they love you you know then you can get the prophecy of course and if it isnt rocking your world well it is suppose to be a "general " nuetral thing.. yeah till you bite and give them info and get deeper into it. What man can do means so little when we have the bible and our own personal Lord and spirit . Why do they need to have practice sessions hmm? if it from God? I know two guys who hate one another in real life and one was directed to give a prophecy to the other and the one recieving it rejected it completely because of his feelings for the dude. ok and this confusion is from God? I think not and I will tell you this God TOLD me to leave when they started and I did . VERY FEW times in my life with the LORD has he given me a direct order like that to just leave and go home . I wanted to stay , glad I didnt tho. believe that or not. but everyone fought and the group fell apart shortly after that over what was done and siad in the practice session.

The pope inspires many to live in a manner that is not evil. Some really believe that if the Doctrine is wrong he must be evil, I lol because as far as my life has been the folks freaked out in twi or an offshoot are the ONLY ones I have met that worship doctrine above goodness and love of one another. Jesus certainly didntthink that way, He loved the unlovable and he often knew they had thoughts far removed from Gods will. Besides this pope has such humble beginnings and such loyalty to the people his entire life and he is cute like a doll baby face. many will grieve when he passes, and the church will be forced to change some of its ideals about what being the pope means.

I used to admire "mellow" people those that always seemed to live in a snail pace and acted very peaceful in situations I would react in outrage. then I learned something, on this forum actualy and for me it was life changing. I forgot who said it or what it was concerning but the poster said, something like it seems the less concerned we are about something the easier it happens. Or that is what I learned anyway and it struck a fabulous nerve with me. now when I want to get angry I just give up, if I have done all that I can do, or if the situation is deemed helpless at the time, I give it up. I walk away in my mind. maybe to revist later, maybe (n fact most times) not to be revisted. then when peace returns I can see a different angle and often the "other side" and think about how I should or more important shouldnt handle it . I do not think IM a control freak although Im surrounded by lots of folks who have the answers for everything and how to fix life in general, to me they are anxious and irrated most of the time and unattractive to find solutions anyways. children can do it to me to, but as they got older and grew up I realized they must also learn how to handle disappointment and stress of life and the best thing I can do is stay mello and show them that MOST of it does not really matter anyways. I have really made a list of what I need in life and very high on the list is the ability to let go and let God. I do confront injustice when I have to, but then I allow the chips to fall where they may and truly move on and forget about it. Life is to short to worry or be afraid I do not think Im afraid anymore of anything really, my children say nothing bothers me , which bothrs me. Working with the public for over forty years has taught me how to "fake" no matter how ....ed off I am . I often pray and try to learn why this would bother me so much, and then work on why I would have such strong feelings over it.

This was NOT assisted suicide. this was murder. The courts agreed with the husband which in that state had the choices to make and the right to kill her. This isnt hospice she didnt die of her brain injury she died of dehydration and stravation. It is different . If the difrectives state what she wishes it is one thing, if she is dying it is another ,neither of these facts where true in Terry's case. We can not assume Terry thoughts and how she "wanted" to live, we know people who loved her dearly felt she should be allowed to live and without written directives I personaly think that would be enough. Why would it not be is the question. I also would not "want to live like that" but yet many do everyday of their life and I have no right to say to them I will not give you water or food. I will say it againin NY if your pet or live stock is found without proper food and water your charged with a felony count. somhow tery's husband was allowed to treat her like less than a farm yard animal . I will not gues what he was thinking , I am angry he feels he could guess what terry was thinking tho. some judgement call if you ask me. He made alot of money alot of money off her illness, and she had alot of money left for her self from the law suit. This is a case of him saying her family wanted money Why does it often come down to that? money and family fighting over it? the parents got nothing fromher illness I cant see a motive for them wanting her to live or how it could hurt her husband to allow her to live. This weeks TIME magazine has the whole book dedicated to this case and many particalrs about what this means for folks in detail . pick up a copy if your interested in how it all falls out and what it means.