WordWolf

For those arriving late, this is Mike. He said that when Jesus returns, he will be holding a copy of the Orange Book in his hand and will be teaching you from it. He confirmed this was NOT a joke, and that he'd "seen him many times this way." He also has a proven record of rewriting the contents of events at the GSC as well as twi. To be brief, he thinks that "vpw's" books and other reading material have replaced the Bible. Let's see what he's on about today. There’s no way I have the time to get involved in debate here, but I couldn’t help but notice two interesting items are missing here. The first missing item is what did VPW himself say about his use of other people’s material? His words on this topic are conspicuously missing here. Why is that? [That's because it was irrelevant to the discussion. However, I'll humor you in the interest of completeness. Among all the plagiarism where vpw made out that he was working with God Almighty only and nobody else, and places like the introduction to the Orange Book where vpw said exactly that, there was a single book with a single comment made in it. For people who had access to a copy of "the Way-Living in Love", and made it about 200 pages in, there was a passing comment by vpw.] "Nothing I do is original. Putting it together in this format-that was the original part." [That sole statement has been creatively interpreted by a handful of people- all people who insist vpw had a special connection to God Almighty- to mean that vpw was admitting that he was ripping off the work of others. It is nothing of the kind. It is a casual comment, rather vague, about not being original. It said nothing about taking Leonard's work and passing it off as his own, Stiles' work and passing it off as his own, and so on. In fact, vpw took Stiles' book oh the Holy Spirit and retyped it, then rephrased some words in later editions, to conceal that it was plagiarized from Stiles (with Bullinger inserted in the Appendices.) In the first few editions, the intro said that vpw "FOUND" a man who taught hm the Holy Spirit field, and in the later editions, vpw rephrased it so that he and he ALONE figured all this out. It's all a CONSISTENT case of INTENTIONAL plagiarism. vpw definitely did his best to pass off the work of others as his own work. ] I also noticed this crucial information missing EVERY TIME the issue of plagiarism comes up. I think it dampens a lot of theories. [This irrelevant comment has been mentioned many times on this subject- and has been raised by myself more than once. Naturally, Mike never remembers that little detail. It's rewritten, just as what the comment actually MEANS was rewritten. And it "dampens" nothing. There's also no "theories." There's a very clear trail showing vpw plagiarized and did his best to hide his tracks. So, he knew what he was doing was wrong, and did it anyway. For those wondering, we've heard "vpw didn't plagiarize", and "God told him to plagiarize" and a few other little things that a handful of people might actually believe to this day. However, they're dying out of old age. Very few kids are buying this tripe.] Does anyone remember what he said? It’s in print. It was widely distributed, starting in 1972. I’ve posted this item about 10 times here (if not more) since Oldiesman found it around 2003. [It was "widely distributed" in that one book, buried more than 100 pages in. It also was no great "discovery." It was posted, and as many as 4 posters claimed it had significance.] Because I have to limit my time here, so I’ll just leave this item hanging. I’ve written reams on it already. [Mike's definitely written a lot here. When asked, he's never actually GOTTEN TO A POINT. Mike's style is to drop oblique comments, make vague statements, claim he knows more than he's telling, then get offended when either nobody cares, or they get irritated he could spend pages and pages to say he didn't have time to address even ONE direct question. (Lots of time to post filler, not one paragraph of substance.] *** The next conspicuously missing item is B.G. Leonard’s visit to the Rock of Ages 1985. I think it was 1985. I was told about this by a 6th Corps clergy member. What BG told an audience there was that The Way was damned for teaching that SIT was not a gift but a manifestation. [There was an account posted here of someone meeting BGL when he appeared on campus. Leonard flipped out when he heard rock and roll (by Takit) played on campus. He claimed it was the devil's music. ] "This ministry will not stand! It cannot stand! That music is the music of Baal! This ministry is going to fall!" ""Sir! This ministry will fall down because of idolatry, you mark my words!" [More than one person recalled his reaction to that rock music. Absolutely NOTHING was posted about Leonard angry that vpw changed "gift" to "manifestation." That's the kind of ridiculous story that's made up to try to make someone look incompetent or some sort of crank. Here, it looks like someone invented it to try to make Leonard look bad- so they could try to say vpw was better or at least of the same calibre.] In other words, he was angry that VPW did not copy him WELL ENOUGH. [In those few steps, we go from "Leonard thought rock music was the devil's music" to "Leonard objected to minutiae about the class but was fine with it otherwise" to "Leonard was angry vpw didn't rip him off more precisely." That was fast. And we can all see how we got there. Why did we get there? It's all to try to preserve the fable that vpw was a legitimate minister and even more- an exceptional minister. Some people have made that a cornerstone of their lives (a few), and there's no reasoning with them.] Also, him being there at the Rock suggests a much closer relationship between VPW and BG than we are generally aware of. [Steve S@nn invited Leonard , according to accounts. This "much closer relationship" has just been manufactured in front of you.] All of my knowledge of this event came from one person, who is SO much a Gear/Martindale clone that he will no longer talk to me. I’m simply trying to verify what I was told. [Sorry, but there was more than 1 poster who said that, and their accounts agreed. Yours did not. Also, you're not "simply trying to verify". You put forth your claim about this ersatz "relationship" and hoped people would buy it. Let's be honest.] I’m extremely thankful that, although BG was not of the temperament to move his revelations over the globe, VPW was. There was no way BG could have moved the Word with the Hippies. No way. [Leonard was of the temperament to empower existing men of God to make them more effective for God Almighty. He was successful enough that- in pre-internet days- his simple class had gotten international attention (that's how vpw found out- people in the US writing about Leonard.) Leonard didn't think of it as "HIS REVELATIONS" either- which is why he just did the work and didn't focus on getting his name around the world. Frankly, if left alone, Leonard would have kept teaching full-steam, and either a minister he taught would have been sent by God to the hippies, or one of those called by God AMONG the hippies would have taken Leonard's class, and that's all it would have taken. Supposing that Leonard's class was the be-all and end-all you're imagining pfal was.]

Hello. Who is E.B. Stowe, and what is his connection with twi or ex-twi groups?

That's it. "The Cellar" became "10 Cloverfield Lane", and "the God Particle" became "the Cloverfield Paradox." The writers started with "Cloverfield"- inspired by an attempt to give the U.S. its own Godzilla. Your turn.

An ex-twi group founded by people who stood by and did nothing while others were kicked out, who played along and smeared reputations for people who were kicked out or who left in disgust, who did nothing when thousands of others brought up all the obvious problems but rather played along with silencing dissent and taking a share of the loot...... those people were the founders of an ex-twi group who turned around and made their own version of the same corruption in twi. Gee, who would have guessed?

Ok, next one. This movie, allegedly, has 2 sequels. The first "sequel" was originally a completely unrelated script called "the Cellar." The second "sequel" was originally a completely unrelated script called "the God Particle." After a few rewrites of their endings, they were then declared to be "sequels" and officially connected to this movie. This movie is set in NYC. One scene was filmed on a movie set. It's the only scene I was completely unable to connect to a real location, so I figured it was filmed on a made-up set;. Other than that, I was able to follow the characters in most of the movie and name their locations (although they lost me for a while when they were in Midtown on 6th, north of Times Square and south of Central Park,) The crew did a fantastic job of disguising Bloomingdales (59th St and Lexington Avenue.) If I wasn't familiar with the exact entrance the characters used, I might have been lost again.

Running Scared Billy Crystal Hamlet (1996 version, directed by Branagh, with lots of stars and a 3-hour run-time; Billy Crystal played the gravedigger and got to say ALL his lines, uncut)

"twi teaches that we are in the grace administration. " "They might say "grace administration," but they have become more legalistic than ever, from what I can see, in what they actually "teach." I doubt that, practically, they have the faintest idea of what "grace" means, is, and enables. And as for "graceful" and "gracefulness" ... well, that's okay as long as you do what they say. Don't think about being individual or doing anything different. And whatever you do, don't look at the chains that invisibly bind you to that organisation." ================================ Here's an un-twi idea. Why not actually look at what twi does and evaluate whether or not THAT matches up to the Bible? The way you're doing it now is that-if they say all the right things- they can do whatever they want and you'll give them a pass because they SAID they did all the RIGHT things while DOING all the WRONG things. Back in twi, I saw a church pastor read and study, then teach on I Corinthians 12 & 14. He read-and said- that tongues were supposed to be interpreted when in the church. Then he closed his sermon, and led the "charismatic" portion of the evening. That included at least a few people I heard that "spoke in tongues"- and absolutely nobody cared that there was no attempt at an interpretation, not even the pastor. Really. That wasn't even 30 minutes after he said "we're not supposed to do this" and he's leading his group while the do exactly that, and he was fine with it. So, talking a good talk is not exclusive to twi (OBVIOUSLY), but twi relies on it to get EVERYTHING past the radar of all the participants.

vpw covered his tracks nicely at the time. BGL was a legit Christian who didn't "think evil" of other Christians (and was a Canadian and not, say, a paranoid NY'er who might double-check things.) vpw found out about Leonard's class, and-according to vpw- found out one was in progress and he couldn't join it since it had already started. He proceeded directly there and basically parked himself until BG relented and let him join. So, vpw "graduated" that class. He took it again a few months later, along with a handful of other people, including Mrs W. vpw was considered a "grad" who was retaking it. Then, a few months later, vpw asked Leonard to ok him running Leonard's class once, locally. Leonard agreed. vpw sent Leonard a photo of the grads of "Leonard's" class. What vpw told all the students was that this was vpw's class on "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today". (No syllabus or diagrams, this was a few months later.) All the people who had taken Leonard's class were already considered "GRADS" of THIS class by vpw himself. That's because it was the same class, just taught by someone else. Later, vpw added Bullinger and Stiles and split the class into 3 different classes that people had to pay for. Some time later, Leonard found out vpw continued to teach Leonard's material AS HIS OWN. BTW, a poster here once took Leonard's class while Leonard was teaching it. He also looked through Leonard's photo album of his classes, and found the photo vpw sent him. He got Leonard's side of things from him at the time. vpw's claims were documented in Mrs W's book, which says the grads of Leonard's class were considered grads of this one. It doesn't say "this is the same class, plagiarized", but what it DOES say makes that pretty clear.

That suggested "BATTLEFIELD EARTH" to me by itself. Timeframe of Forrest Whitaker as an actor, actual stars like FW, an SF flick, and a star clueless as to how bad the movie was. Frankly, the "but better" made me think of comments made about "ÄotS" which gets me thinking "cult" all by itself.

*wild swing* "Ghost Dog- Way of the Samurai"???

https://genius.com/Leonard-bernstein-america-film-lyrics

Who said I recommended Google Search? I use DuckDuckGo when StartPage isn't making it for me. But Microsoft and Google and Facebook attempt to track you and grab your data. So, I prefer not to use MS browsers (IE, Edge) nor Google browsers (Chrome) . I use others, and may add something to block Facebook and Google tracking.

SHAME on you! How can you be in and not call yourself "A FOLLOWER OF THE WAY"? If they catch you doing that, there could be consequences.

STANDARD response. "All of you focus your lives on the evils of twi". As if we spend all our lives here. Seriously, someone's feeding all of you the same handful of lines. It happened in twi- which is why your "we look only toward God" post looked rehearsed, and this response is equally standardized. Until you actually do the thinking for yourself, you're going to pretty much be subject to whomever's writing your scripts. At least become aware someone's feeding you lines and you're just repeating them here. "what do you mean standard response ? nobody is feeding me lines. i write my own scripts." I didn't mean that LITERALLY someone's handing you the contents of a post and saying "type this in." Every pro-twi or pro-vpw person comes out with IDENTICAL ERRORS OF FACT about the GSC. That's not a sign of people all doing their own thinking, it's the sign of people all quoting the same source without attribution. And that's down the DECADES. "we dont discuss the past in fellowship. " If I were running a scam of that type, I'd be doing everything I could to discourage people from digging up the disgraceful past as well. Exposing all the crimes, ruined lives, lies, and so on would not benefit the people running the scam. But things don't just "appear." The twi of today is the result of the twi of yesterday, which is the result of the older twi, and there's LOTS of things they'd be ashamed to stipulate to anywhere. "the Word is taught and i leave. I started going to wi fellowships in 1980. been wow and wd." I don't think you're aware of all the details of what you're being taught. We were all fooled in part, once. Sooner or later, we saw some things slipped past our radars. We were amazed what slipped our notice. If you're still on "nothing is slipping my notice", you have a long road to travel. And people who were in earlier than you, longer than you, and in higher positions than you have discovered things and left twi. "if dwbh had approached me like you he and i could have had a good conversation. but he called me names and stuff and slandered me on a public forum. calling me a racist and aryan is slander." Yet you react, often, like we're ALL doing that. You may not be aware of it. See, when you do that, you can more easily rationalize away the content of our posts, and go back to what you were doing before. It's like looking in a mirror and forgetting what your face looked like.

Feel free to put it there. It's not subject to a vote or anything.

We discussed whether Samson and/or Jesus was/were molested in "Were Samson and Jesus Molested?" We discussed the oath with the hand under thigh in "Oath- hand under thigh". https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/10317-oath-hand-under-thigh/

Whenever humanly possible, I use someone else's free program rather than Microsoft's free program. So, I don't use IE or Edge, I use FireFox and other derivatives (PaleMoon, etc.) I'd trust Chrome before Edge on general principle- and I don't like Chrome because I don't like Google spying on me any more than I like MS spying on me. Frankly, I'd keep a few browsers along, just in case one works better than another for something (that's why I discovered PaleMoon in the first place.) If you want to add a Chromium-based browser, I'd add one instead of Chrome itself. Chrome has all the spyware slowing it down. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_(web_browser)#Other_browsers_based_on_Chromium I know nothing about the cloud-based questions.

LibreOffice and OpenOffice.org are good office suites. Mrs Wolf uses OOO, I use LO. Mrs W also uses Thunderbird, and has for a long time.

I was going to come back and post the right answer. "West Side Story" is one of the movies based on the Romeo and Juliet theme- like "Underworld" and Baz Luhrman's "Romeo + Juliet." George is in a garage band? What instrument, or are you vocals?

Not a bad film to link to and from. *thinks* I'm not going to link back to Uma, so let's go Ben Stiller Starsky and Hutch Owen Wilson

(As an aside, that was Matthew Broderick, Uma Thurman, Will Farrell, and Mel Brooks.)

Ok. We have a musical with Caucasian actors playing non-Caucasian roles in some cases. That means, probably, Latino, Black, Asian, Middle Eastern. Scratch Middle Eastern- the only Semitic musical didn't have actors using makeup. Asian was only "the King And I." So, some characters are Black or Latino- with Caucasians playing them. Makeup to turn a Caucasian into an African-American isn't cost-effective for a group, it looks too much like blackface. No blackface musical would have been made that late. So, characters, at least in the ensemble, who are Latino. It's name has been mentioned in this round already, twice. *slaps forehead* In fairness, your clues went their own way. This is Baz Luhrman's musical, "Underworld." No, wait.....

"so dwbh was one of those evil mean leaders that possibly kicked people out for no reason ?" Nobody said that. This is what vpw called "private interpretation." (BTW, he was incorrect in his usage of the term.) DWBH's story is well-documented here and fully detailed. He REFUSED to kick people out. He tried to get them help- and that's when twi fell on him like a falling safe. "as long as twi teaches the rightly divided word of GOD i will stick around." As long as one is determined to stay in twi, it's impossible to exercise 20/20 hindsight. Even with people providing examples. One remains sentenced to repeating twi's catchphrases and unable to discuss them outside or repeating the official line on anything. "I attended several offshoots in the late 80's -90's at various times and it was the same mean arrogant leaders that left or were kicked out running them." These people were fully trained by twi, and considered fully qualified to lead by twi. And you found them unfit to lead. So, you go back to twi and say twi's current leaders- who were fully trained by twi and considered fully qualified to lead by twi- are fit to lead. You don't see anything wrong with that? "and a lot of what they did was talk sheet about twi." I imagine rape, plagiarism, and other felonies were discussed quite a bit. Funny how twi/vpw fans downgrade "vpw drugged and raped those women" to "talking sheet about twi." "twi is made up of people and WE all have imperfections ,make mistakes and if you can understand that it will make life easier. when there are leaders that are aye wholes is were a problem lies because its your word against theirs and most of the time the leader is believed." A) There's minimum standards leaders are to be kept to. Organizations have a fiduciary responsibility to run things in safe ways and not expose people to unneeded risks. If they do, there's systems in place to address the problems AND the unfit leaders. But in twi, those systems were suppressed because vpw wanted absolute power with no checks nor balances, and his successors have felt the same way. "We all have imperfections." That's a really soft way to address people dying because of vpw/twi policies. In fact, the only time the twi policies began to reflect reality was because the twi lawyers demanded twi conform to the law. You've placed your confidence in a group that places you in a position of insignificance, and only looks out for you or your peers if the law requires them to do so. You don't see anything wrong with that? B) Seriously, you don't think the organization that taught these guys to lie and suppress information and everyone to believe the leader is still doing it, and on a bigger scale than the people who left and did that? You left the amateurs at doing that to join the professionals at that practice. You don't see anything wrong with that? C) There's plenty of ex-twi'ers among Christians who don't do that. BTW, is that the only reason you returned to twi from splinters? That a splinter abused you, so you went to the group that taught them to abuse?

STANDARD response. "All of you focus your lives on the evils of twi". As if we spend all our lives here. Seriously, someone's feeding all of you the same handful of lines. It happened in twi- which is why your "we look only toward God" post looked rehearsed, and this response is equally standardized. Until you actually do the thinking for yourself, you're going to pretty much be subject to whoever's writing your scripts. At least become aware someone's feeding you lines and you're just repeating them here.

In CFS, he broke down a bunch of words and gave them all a sexual connotation, and was also inconsistent with his explanation. "ARUM", according to him, meant- depending on the verse in that passage- either "sharp or wise" or "nothing to hide". That's a HECK of a lot of ground for one word to cover! Everybody in Genesis was "arum"- "the Serpent", Adam, Eve... and it meant completely unrelated things when it referred to different individuals. "It wasn't the apple on the tree- it was the pear/pair on the ground." Every crackpot idea that connected to sex found a home in twi. I've noticed that most seem to be twi and ex-twi specific in usage. In cyberspace, when I've looked for explanations of the related verses, only ex-twi'ers said "this is what it means" and nobody else. twi/vpw taught that Mary and Joseph had sex before Jesus was born. The whole "knew her not meant no sex OR no sex resulting in conception" thing is unique to twi/ ex-twi. No scholar has stepped forth to claim that.EVERYBODY else seems to think this is a rather straightforward thing (no sex before Jesus was born.) twi/vpw taught that Jesus and Samson were both molested- Jesus when the soldiers tortured him, Samson when the Philistines captured him. It was an enormous stretch placed on the JKV phrase "made sport", and examination showed it didn't hold up in Biblical usage. Small wonder, again, only ex-twi'ers claim that one. twi/vpw taught that when someone swore "with hand on thigh" that the hand wasn't on the thigh- the hand was somewhere else, and the oath sworn "hand on thigh" was sworn "on the family jewels." Turns out the long answer is that the "thigh" thing isn't figurative. What is meant in swearing ON a thigh was figurative, but the physical hand was on the physical thigh in practice. Again, ex-twi'ers still teach that one, but the general public does not.