WordWolf

The thing is, if his version is plagiarized from THEIR book(s), then they have a legal basis for a complaint (violation of their legal rights under copyright law), and are entitled to their day in court, and judgment in their favor. Whether or not his version is plagiarized from their book(s) is a matter for the court(s) to determine. From a Christian standpoint, it would be better if they went directly to him and tried to get satisfaction from him first. I do not know if they attempted this. From a legal standpoint, that is not required beyond possibly issuing a cease-and-desist letter. It should be no surprise IF the way international handled this solely as a legal matter, and ignored how the Bible says to treat other Christians- they abuse their OWN Christians and are unlikely to treat outsider Christians with the respect Christians usually accord one another at this time.

Clicking this to the top....

I thought this thread might be handy at the moment.

When it comes to compassion, there's nothing new at the way international. twi has always preferred to be more like Job's miserable comforters than like anything Jesus Christ said to behave like.

Those lines are, the song as a whole is not taken to be. (An argument conceivably could be made for it, but not a popular one.) =========================== "Walk without rhythm, it won't attract the worm. Walk without rhythm, and it won't attract the worm! Walk without rhythm, and it won't attract the worm. if you walk without rhythm...you never learn." "Organically grown. Through the hemisphere I roam. To make love to the angels of light, yeah and my girl. I guess you just don't understand- It's gone beyond bein' a man. As I drift off into the night I'm in flight."

Here's trying something different. "Walk without rhythm, it won't attract the worm. Walk without rhythm, and it won't attract the worm! Walk without rhythm, and it won't attract the worm. if you walk without rhythm...you never learn."

Ok. I give. That song was the Talking Heads "And She Was."

Proverbs 11:!4. "Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety." You've had the benefit of counsel of a number of posters. They've all said different things in different ways, but they all offered the same general advice and foresaw the same general outcome. Of course, you're free to ignore them all, keep saying you know better than everyone else, and keep yourself as a client in a court of law. (There's a saying about that.) Us, we'll just wait for the report of how badly you get spanked. You've chosen a losing strategy, and chosen to ignore the advice of the people who actually didn't recommend you getting spanked. Either you're so narcissistic you can't see you're completely outclassed and don't know your way around a courtroom, or you KNOW you're going to crash and burn and are persisting out of some perverse desire to be humiliated in court. Either way, there's really no point to posting here anymore, unless you want to join in some of the discussions with nothing to do with your court-case. You're free to do that, of course...

[You're going to make an argument that the First Amendment clause of freedom of religion means you're entitled to infringe copyright? All I have left to say is, go for it, and let us know what happens.]

They can hear any plagiarism case whenever they want. Charges of plagiarism or lack thereof are independent of the content of the plagiarized work. If that's the extent of your defense, you're going to get spanked by the real lawyers. The LAYMEN here can apparently fry you like a fish. My post was a tactical assessment. For fun, I'm an armchair tactician. I look over situations and make an appraisal of what strategies could lead to victory, and I look over strategies and assess what they say of the people who chose them. Sun Tzu would have pointed out that tactical assessments are to be made before any conflict, and victory or defeat should be determined before BEGINNING the conflict. Winners won first on paper, then went to the conflict, losers went to the conflict THEN tried to win. There's strategies for use when one is "strong" and strategies for use when one is "weak". In this case, arguing directly from evidence is "strong" and arguing to dismiss or disregard evidence is "weak." So far, the "weak" argument is not good enough for a judge to take it seriously- thus it would be a LOSING argument. Sun Tzu said that if you were unable to fight "strong" and refused to fight with a winning "weak" strategy, you would lose. In this case, that means you're smoked meat. Of course, you're free to ignore everything I've said, and let the judge tell you the same thing in different words when it will cost you thousands of dollars. That's the strategic summary. If I can see it, real lawyers and judges can see it, too. We've had some lengthy discussions here in the past on what is allowed and what is prohibited under US laws concerning plagiarism. The court will rule on whether your work is plagiarized or original. If your "argument" is based on anything else, you're going to get filleted.

That sums it all up nicely. Good work, mstar.

For everyone except James Trimm, this is very simple. Party A (the way international, known criminal cartel) has claimed that Party B (James Trimm) has plagiarized a written work of theirs, and has sued over it. Party B has 2 possible responses. 1) "I produced this work independently and I shall demonstrate how I did it!" This indicates he honestly put in the work and can show some of it. 2) "I shall obfuscate the issues, and debate the meaning of the word 'is'." This indicates he honestly did NOT put in the work and is trying to fog the issues as much as possible. Looks like we're seeing a clear example of Scenario 2.

I was being coy. Gen-2 actually said the name! That makes it her turn!

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

*wild swing* Is this "the Good Son"?

I will go so far as to say that anything posted here, including your best 'arguments', are subject to replies by the posters, including possible refutation before the way international even gets to you. Since twi has staffers ASSIGNED to read the GSC (which is often the sole real source of news available to the few people still in twi about twi itself, since twi maintains news blackouts), presenting your 'arguments' here will include presenting them in advance to twi. That having been said, this messageboard is one of the few places people will go to read and discuss twi, so once any official judgements are made, feel free to post anything that's a matter of public record and not confidential concerning the case. It will be discussed, you may be disagreed with, but it will definitely be READ-which, I think, was one point when you arrived here.

"And she could hear the highway breathing. And she could see a nearby factory. She's making sure she is not dreaming. See the lights of a neighbor's house, Now she's starting to rise. Take a minute to concentrate And she opens up her eyes. The world was moving, she was right there with it..." "..She was moving very slowly Rising up above the earth. Moving into the universe And she's drifting this way and that. Not touching the ground at all And she's up above the yard." "...was proud about it... no doubt about it. She isn't sure about what she's done. No time to think about what to tell him. No time to think about what she's done" "things were looking like a movie. She had a pleasant elevation. She's moving out in all directions." "Joining the world of missing persons" (last quote)

I Kings 15:5 KJV: Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite. NASB: because David did what was right in the sight of the LORD, and had not turned aside from anything that He commanded him all the days of his life, except in the case of Uriah the Hittite. ================================== If victor paul wierwille should be compared to anyone in the Bible, it should be Balaam. ------------------------------------------------------------ II Peter 2:1-3, 12- (NASB unless otherwise specified.) But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. -------------- 12But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed, 13suffering wrong as the wages of doing wrong They count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime They are stains and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, as they carouse with you, 14having eyes full of adultery that never cease from sin, enticing unstable souls, having a heart trained in greed, accursed children; 15forsaking the right way, they have gone astray, having followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16but he received a rebuke for his own transgression, for a mute donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet. 17These are springs without water and mists driven by a storm, for whom the black darkness has been reserved. 18For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error, 19promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved. 20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. Jude 3-11 3Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints. 4For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. 5Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe. 6And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, 7just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. 8Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties. 9But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" 10But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed. 11Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. Revelation 2:13-15. 13'I know where you dwell, where Satan's throne is; and you hold fast My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days of Antipas, My witness, My faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. 14'But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality. 15'So you also have some who in the same way hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans. ================================================ II Peter 2:1-3, 12- (NASB unless otherwise specified.) "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep." -------------- [God warned that false prophets AND false teachers would come, and introduce "destructive heresies" secretly. They would teach (by action and lesson) SENSUALITY- a following-after of lusts and the deeds of the flesh. Their GREED was the motive for EXPLOITING CHRISTIANS, and why they lied to them.] 12But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed, 13suffering wrong as the wages of doing wrong They count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime They are stains and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, as they carouse with you, 14having eyes full of adultery that never cease from sin, enticing unstable souls, having a heart trained in greed, accursed children; [Animals operate primarily from instinct. They don't really REASON, or deal in abstractions. Humans were granted reason to make their own decisions. Humans have no excuse when they choose to embrace instincts. Some humans have chosen to sin in the daytime. That's one thing, but here, WORSE is being spoken of- these chronic, voluntary sinners choose to DECEIVE and pretend they are fine, upstanding leaders- with small exceptions for when they're interacting with their fellow Christians.] ---------------- 15forsaking the right way, they have gone astray, having followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16but he received a rebuke for his own transgression, for a mute donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet. 17These are springs without water and mists driven by a storm, for whom the black darkness has been reserved. 18For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error, 19promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved. 20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. ======= [balaam was a prophet of God, and was supposed to SERVE GOD. Instead Balaam served his appetites, Balaam served SIN. Balaam loved MONEY, and exhibited MADNESS over it. He really, really loved money. None of us dislike it, but this man was willing to practice idolatry over it. People like him are haughty and full of self-pride, and teach others to sin and follow lusts. They speak of FREEDOM, even FREEDOM and LIBERTY IN CHRIST, while serving sin wholeheartedly.] ========= Jude 3-11 3Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints. 4For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. [We're being warned that among the Christians, some UNGODLY people have turned God's GRACE- and the freedoms under Christ- and made them an EXCUSE TO SIN.] 5Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe. 6And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, 7just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. 8Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties. 9But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" ========= [This is serious stuff. God's putting these guys in the same category as Sodom and Gomorrah.] === 10But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed. 11Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. [There's the connection to Balaam again. They are envious and despise God's counsel like Cain, and money produced an idolatry like with Balaam.] ========= Revelation 2:13-15. 13'I know where you dwell, where Satan's throne is; and you hold fast My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days of Antipas, My witness, My faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. 14'But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality. 15'So you also have some who in the same way hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans. ----- [balaam wasn't just out for MONEY. (Balaam wasn't a sinner for one long, greedy weekend. He was weak of character besides that. Balaam taught Israel to perform idolatry and IMMORAL ACTS. I bet there was money in it for him to do that....]

Here's plenty of stuff about James Trimm's supposed Doctorate from an accredited institution. He claims to have one, but no evidence for it seems to exist. My, my, my. Reminds me of someone. Plagiarists, by definition, seem to lack originality. He plagiarized victor paul wierwille's sham doctorate as well as twi's book. http://www.seekgod.ca/trimmdoc.htm http://www.seekgod.ca/trimmdiploma.htm Here's some stuff on James Trimm engaging in internet "sockpuppet" activity and other dishonest practices, such as speaking out of both sides of his mouth (telling group A one thing and group B the opposite.) http://www.seekgod.ca/rabbiyosef.htm ================================== Here's the cited case. Note it's specifically about copyright infringement, not "regulation of Scripture interpretation" (or "suppressing the truth" or whatever you'd like to mislabel it as.) http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-txndce/case_no-4:2009cv00338/case_id-187156/ ====================================================== There's lots more on James Trimm on a number of websites, but I was getting tired just skimming them, so I stuck to a few basics and one site. Feel free to look over the rest.

The one time the way international actually acts in accordance with the intent and letter of the law, and nobody believes they're doing the right thing. If you "cry wolf" all the time, no one's going to believe you if the real thing shows up at your door.....

This thread is misnamed. It's about how the courts acknowledged James Trimm plagiarized one of the few things the way international DIDN'T plagiarize themselves, and how James Trimm doesn't like that. http://www.seekgod.ca/trfactor2.htm James Trimm's Hebrew Roots Version (HRV) title page stated he translated Ancient Hebrew and Aramaic manuscripts for his New Testament. "A translation of the "New Testament" taken from ancient Hebrew and Aramaic manuscripts." That would mean that one would find all books of the New Testament in the original manuscripts of Aramaic and Hebrew. One would also find that these sources would be valid and recognized as authentic and would also not be known as translations of the Greek manuscripts by authoritative scholars. James Trimm announced various times on various forums, such as his SANJ forum at Yahoo: # 411 From: James Trimm <jstrimm@n...> Date: Wed Apr 30, 2003 0:49pm Subject: HRV Bible Coming Soon ... The HRV translation of the New Testament is translated out of the ORIGINAL HEBREW AND ARAMAIC and is taken from ancient Hebrew and Aramaic Manuscripts NOT THE GREEK.... # 411 From: James Trimm <jstrimm@n...> Date: Wed Apr 30, 2003 1:27pm Subject: Restoring Original Hebrew/Aramaic NT ....Unlike most translations this edition is not rooted in a Greek Hellenistic text. Instead this translation seeks to understand the text of the New Testament from the languages in which it was originally written. This is important because there are some passages in the NT which do not make sense at all in Greek, but only begin to make sense when we look at them in Hebrew and Aramaic:.." 1 James Trimm also stated that for the New Testament he used, " the Hebrew and Aramaic manuscripts rather than the Greek. The HRV reaches back to the original text of the Tanak by making use not only of the Masoretic Text, but of the Massorah, the Aramaic Pedangta Tanak, the Hebrew Samaritan Pentateuch, the Greek Septuagint and the Dead Sea Scrolls." And , "The HRV "New Testament" text is taken from ancient Hebrew and Aramaic manuscripts. (Shem Tob, DuTillet and Muster Hebrew Matthew; Munster Hebrew Hebrews; The Old Syriac Aramaic Gospels; The Aramaic Pedangta NT and the Crawford Aramaic Revelation.) and has over 1,700 footnotes. "...The HRV Tanak it translated primarily from the Hebrew Masoretic Text contains many footnotes giving important alternate readings from the Dead Sea Scroll manuscripts; the Samaritan Pentateuch; the Greek Septuagent; the Aramaic Pedangta Tanak and the Aramaic Targums." 2 Trimm posted a page of Sources which supposedly revealed where he obtained his documentation. 3 After consulting with professors regarding James Trimm's stated Sources for "translating" the HRV, it was stated to this writer, that it is obvious that in order to even read/utilize the listed source texts one would have to know, "at a minimum, Hebrew, Syriac, and Greek (to be able to judge the accuracy of the Hebrew and/or Syriac translation of the Greek NT)." These are the opinions, collectively, of real professors who head Religious Departments in major Universities, who have doctorates in Middle East studies and so on. These are the academics who know what would be needed in order to translate a Bible and also be able to utilize the resources James Trimm claims to have used. Some might suggest that James Trimm would not need knowledge of Greek because he rejects the Greek New Testament. It's been stated by people fluent in Aramaic and Hebrew that James is not in the least fluent in those languages. Some have posted various writings and asked him to translate on the spot, and he has been unable to. Nor can he dialogue in those languages. For example: Uri-Yosef, Born, raised, and educated in Israel. His credentials include, "Language skills: Fluent in Hebrew, German, and English. Good facility in Yiddish. Knowledge (at various levels) of Arabic, Aramaic, Portuguese, and Spanish. Also have knowledge of American Sign Language (ASL)." Although a counter-missionary advocate, his background in Hebrew is enough to reveal that James Trimm does not know Hebrew and Aramaic fluently. "....PS - As to what Yatziv Patgam said, it actually took place on Trimm's "home turf", in the Messianic Q&A chat on PalTalk, into which I was invited to come and challenge him. With one simple question in simple Hebrew I demonstrated that James Trimm, who has claimed to be fluent in Hebrew and Aramaic, knew less Hebrew than the average Israeli child in pre-school (i.e., 3-4 year old). Later, I also asked him to provide Hebrew Bible support to some theological issue that he was touting, and he quickly back-pedaled and admitted that no direct verses exist to support his claim but, when a bunch of verses are interpretted in a certain way, they would support what he was claiming which, of course, was a bunch of nonsense...." http://pub157.ezboard.com/fmessiahtruthfrm1.showNextMessage?topicID=265.topic Regarding Aramaic, from the Pedangta.org, we read of interaction with Paul Younan, who was raised in the Assyrian culture and is fluent in Aramaic. Paul Younan 5. "RE: Dr. Trimm on AramaicNT.org" Jun-08-2003 at 05:39 PM (GMT3) Hi Akhi, To be completely honest with you, I find it very annoying to argue with someone who can't even speak Aramaic, about Aramaic. James Trimm is a student. He learned whatever little he knows from reading books. That's not a bad thing. What is bad is when he sets himself up as some sort of authority on the topic, which he is not. What's worse is that he insists on arguing with me about the meaning of words he has no clue about, about a language that is completely foreign to him and that he can't even hold a 30-second discussion in, face-to-face. ...Furthermore, James Trimm has absolutely no credentials to be calling himself a "Dr.", and you shouldn't address him is as such, either. That gives people the wrong impression, but that's your choice. Nobody who really knows a spit of Aramaic pays any attention to him, as Dr. Kiraz will attest to you...Paul Younan, Pedangta.org" http://www.pedangta.org/forums/forumid6/1952.html And surprisingly, James Trimm has never claimed to know Greek, although he has made claims to have a Doctorate in Semitic Studies and Linguistics. However, James Trimm has consistently used Greek New Testament, via Strong's, quotes in many of his forum and article discussions as to why the Greek is translated incorrectly and therefore not the original language of the New Testament. He also states he used "the Greek Septuagint." Hence he would indeed have to have knowledge of Greek to utilize the various resources and also make those critical assumptions. What James failed to list in his translation resources was The Way International Bible. James Trimm also neglected to mention that in 1993 he put out a request on the internet, for a copy of that Version. James Trimm's The Way International Request From: James.Trimm@f18.n104.z1.fidonet.org (James Trimm) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: WAY INTL & ARAMAIC NT Message-ID: <Dec.6.06.15.28.1993.14707@athos.rutgers.edu> Date: 6 Dec 93 11:15:28 GMT ...CALLING ALL MEMBERS AND EX-MEMBERS OF THE WAY INTERNATIONAL! I am looking for members and ex-members of The Way International. As you may know, the late Dr. Wierwille, founder of The Way International, taught that the NT was originally written in Aramaic, that the Pedangta Aramaic NT is an important witness to the NT text, and that research tools on this subject are badly needed. As the following quotes demonstrate: "...Aramaic was the original language in which the New Testament was written..."-- Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille; Twenty-fifth Anniversay Souvenir Booklet, p. 17. "For centuries, the Greek versions of the New Testament have recieved their due attention while the Aramaic versions, for the most part, have been neglected. Discoveries in textual criticism in the last 150 years, however, have shown the Pedangta [Aramaic] text,... and other versions play as vital a role as the Greek in ascertaining the original New Testament text... In recent times some scholars have demonstrated that a Palestinian Aramaic original lies behind the Greek versions of New Testament documents.... research tools of the Pedangta [Aramaic] Version are essential to this task."-- Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille; The Concordance to the Pedangta Version of the Aramaic New Testament; p. ix If you are interested in this type of research we would like to hear from you. HEBREW/ARAMAIC NEW TESTAMENT RESEARCH INSTITUTE "Researching & publishing Hebrew and Aramaic N.T. manuscripts" ... Hebrew/Aramaic New Testament Research Institute PO Box 471 Hurst, TX 76053..." 4 [spelling as seen] In various forum discussions, there was reference to the late Herb Jahn. Jahn's version of the New Testament was called, The Aramaic New Covenant, and was claimed by Jahn "to be the only literal translation/transliteration made from the original Aramaic, the variant of the Hebrew language spoken by Jesus and His disciples." At one point in the early stages of the preparation of Jahn's "The Aramaic New Covenant", Herb hired James Trimm to assist him in its preparation. He had hired James Trimm to help him "translate", and Trimm stated, "... Originally Mr. Jahn hired me to do the translation. We signed the contracts and all went well for about three months. ... Jahn had obtained the Way Intl. Interlinear edition and decided he could use that to produce his version. Jahn himself does not know a word of Aramaic. Jahn's previous project, the exoGesis study bible provides his translation from the Heb. O.T. and Greek N.T.. Jahn does not know Hebrwew or Greek but looked up EVERY word in a Strong's and made sure that each word was always translated with the same english word (regardless of context). Jahn had also heard that Hebrew has no tenses so he put the ENTIRE OT portion in the present tense...." 5 (spelling as shown) James Trimm referenced the Syriac Pedangta documents of Agnes Smith Lewis, as one of his sources. A Pedangta translator, who was one of the original Way International's Research Team, has published the Way's Aramaic-English Interlinear New Testament of the Pedangta. The internet version varies slightly from the Way International's translation. The base texts for the Way translation included Agnes Smith's Pedangta. It recently has been alleged that the HRV is a plagiarism of the Way Interlinear Bible. Researcher Kathryn Kern contacted the people involved, and has done comparison of Trimm's HRV with passages of the Way International Interlinear. I'm sure the investigating authorities will also look seriously at that issue. The original Way translation was authorized by Paul Victor Wierwille, a man who openly denied the Deity of the Messiah, and authored the book "Jesus is not God". What James Trimm may not have realized is that the Way Research team did try to remove some of Wierwille's bias from their version, and according to Dr. John Juedes, were fairly successful. While researcher Kathryn Kern and myself are not fully in agreement doctrinally, her desire to seek the Truth is evident. Her research on James Trimm has also been extensive. Kathryn has also recommended that people contact the following authorities, if James Trimm has refused to refund monies to Yeshiva students or purchasers of his products. Her statement: Since James has refused refunds to those requesting them, due to his misrepresentation of his abilities and his plagiarism, I have provided avenues for the victims to seek restitution. I suggest filing with both, since they are two different agencies. Randy Cook at one of the following , brcook@uspis.gov , (817)317-3460, P.O. Box 162929, Keller, TX 76161-2929 Randy Cook works for the United States Postal Inspectors office since mailing out the HRV, based on false advertising qualifies as mail fraud. Greg Abbott, Attorney General of Texas, P.O. Box 12548, Austin, TX 78711 David Linkletter of Texas Higher Education can also be contacted, regarding the Yeshiva issues. James Trimm has defended George Lamsa, and in fact has been on the board of the Aramaic Bible Society which pushes Lamsa's writings and theology. We find that his friend Bishop Don de Cordova aka Don Hargis are "both" part of that organization as well. George Lamsa, a close friend to Way International founder Victor Wierwille, was instrumental in the development of The Way International's theology and writings. The Lamsa connection That same year, Wierwille began to study the Aramaic Bible, believing that Aramaic was the language which Christ Himself spoke and in which the original Bible was written (most scholars believe that it was actually written in Greek). He met George Lamsa, translator of the Aramaic Biblical Texts , and they began to work together on study of the Aramaic translation. Wierwille believed that the best way to know the truth revealed in the Bible was to know it the way it was originally written. (Melton, 1986: 206) Sacred or Revered Texts: The Bible (Aramaic version). Wierwille's writings, such as Jesus Christ is Not God are also considered important. Emphasis is also placed on the works of George Lamsa, including The Holy Bible From Ancient Eastern Manuscripts . Other important books include the writings of Indian bishop KC Pilla: The Orientalisms of the Bible and Light Through an Eastern Window . (Melton, 1986: 208)" 6 Lamsa actually lived with Wierwille for a time. Victor Wierwille, leader of The Way, denied the Deity of Jesus Christ and his writings reflected that belief. He, along with Michael Rood, Trimm and many others, promoted the primacy of the Aramaic. Others would simply suggest that Aramaic or Syriac versions provide an interesting study alongside the original Greek and should not be excluded for that reason. Dr. John Juedes, in discussion of Victor Wierwille's sources of theology, wrote in, A CLOSE LOOK AT SOME OF THE WAY'S TEACHINGS: Arguing from Aramaic A presupposition behind much of Wierwille's exegesis is the primacy of Aramaic. In fact, Wierwille and The Way freely alter much of the New Testament text, such as Matthew 27:46 and the Hebrews 11 passages mentioned above by an appeal to Aramaic. Their basis is the forthright assertion that the Testament was written originally in Aramaic, not Greek .47 They refer extensively to the Estrangelo Aramaic, or Syriac versions and to the Pedangta version as translated by Dr. George M. Lamsa. Reputable modern scholarship unanimously rejects the notion that the Syriac was the language of the autographs, although some suggest that many of Jesus' sayings were first recorded in an Aramaic dialect of Israel. However, the only conclusion that fits the evidence is that the Syriac versions were translated from original Greek writings. Evidence against the Syriac being the original language of the New Testament is quite conclusive. First, Aramaic has continually changed over the 30-plus centuries of its existence. Numerous dialects have existed simultaneously. Palestine was home for recognizable variations, including the Galilean dialect which Jesus space the Samaritan dialect, and the Southern dialect spoken around Jerusalem. Odessa, the focus of Syriac and its major New Testament versions, was over five times as far from Jerusalem as Galilee was. Hence, Edessan Aramaic (classed as an eastern Aramaic) was far different from the Palestinian Aramaic dialects of the apostles (classed as western dialects). Second, the 100-200 years of change between the time of the apostles and the Syriac brought more differences. In fact, the area of Odessa, about 150 miles from the coast, was not even evangelized, much less established in Christianity, until after A.D. 116, long after the New Testament was written. Third, Koine Greek was used universally around the Mediterranean and was known as a second language even by farmers of less Hellenized areas, More than half of the Old Testament passages found in the New Testament are quoted from the Greek Septuagint, not from an Aramaic targum or Hebrew text of the day. Even the Gospel of Matthew, written by a Jew for Jews, quotes more than half of its Old Testament passages from the Septuagint.4' Of 29 inscriptions found on ossuaries on Mt. Olive, 11 are Greek, 11 are Aramaic, and 7 are Hebrew. In addition, the apostles and the Jews around them were well acquainted with Greek. The New Testament writers wanted not only Israel, but all nations, to believe. There is no reason for them to have written in a little known, politically and racially colored local dialect when the universally known Koine Greek existed. The Pedangta, respected highly by The Way, is an inferior biblical text. It was not an original or even a new translation of the Greek New Testament, but was a late fourth-century revision of the superior Syriac versions based on later inferior Greek texts. It also lacks 11 Peter, 11 and III John, Jude, and Revelation. The Estrangelo Aramaic it represents is not a language in itself as The Way International leads one to believe. Instead it is one of many scripts or styles of writing that was applied to Aramaic and prevailed in the fourth and fifth centuries A.D.50 Dr. Lamsa's translation of the Pedangta, respected by The Way, displays many weaknesses. He paid little attention to variant readings that would improve its text, used unidentified "later Aramaic texts" to supply missing portions and, in places, copies the King James Version. The forms of Aramaic he is acquainted with are quite removed from that of Jesus' time." Unfortunately, The Way spends an enormous amount of energy and places a great deal of weight on the unfounded theory of Aramaic originals, ne un supportability of this theory results in the collapse of many of Wierwille's interpretations. ...Abuse of Greek syntax and manuscripts is the second category of Wierwille's defective methodology. His misuse is apparent in the examples discussed above: ignorance of genitives of aim, mid-sentence alterations of word meaning, the superfluous distinction between "faith" and believing," and imposed parentheses that wrongly segment biblical sections. His knowledge of Hebrew linguistic style is no better, as his misapplication of Isaiah 43:7 shows. In order to use Greek manuscripts to his full advantage, he also promotes inferior research tools and false principles of textual criticism. Glaring inconsistencies mark The Way's manipulations of Greek texts. On the one hand, The Way revises the text of John 21:19 on the basis of MS 31, claiming that this thirteenth-century manuscript was based on an earlier, "correct" text. This approach refutes Wierwille's revisions of I John 5:7, 1 Timothy 3:16, Galatians 4:6, and John 1: 18 (which he alters to deny Christ's deity). If MS 31 were based on an earlier, "correct" text, then by the same principle MSS 61, 88, 629, and 635, which support the KJV reading of I John 5:7, were also based on earlier, correct texts and should be accepted. ...Wierwille also misuses Greek texts by setting a lone good source in opposition to all other MSS (as in Gal. 4:6) and by placing a few MSS of low reliability above MSS of greater quality and number (as in John 1:18). Proper textual criticism does not scrape up any MS evidence in existence regardless of quality in order to back a preconceived interpretation, as The Way does... Wierwille's third false key of research is his claim that the New Testament was authored in Aramaic, then translated into Greek, Some passages, such as the above-mentioned Matthew 27:46 and Hebrews 11 verses, he claims were erroneously translated, and he offers his own "accurate" translation. He also manipulates Orientalisms to his advantage, as in Philippians 2:6. He uses both "Aramaic originals" and "Orientalisms" to avoid passages that oppose his preconceived theology. Wierwille gives no concrete evidence to support his theories of Aramaic originals nor of mistranslations into Greek. At best, he argues from silence, which is the weakest of contentions. No Aramaic originals are extant, and all of the earliest New Testament manuscripts that have been recovered are in Greek, not Aramaic. The overwhelming evidence favors Greek, not Aramaic originals. Semitisms and Aramaic words found in the New Testament are not traces of Aramaic originals. Rather, they reveal the historic reality of the language Jesus most often ministered in, as well as literary fullness and the Semitic backgrounds and ways of thinking that the Jewish authors were used to." 7 When James Trimm appears to have used The Way International Bible for at least a source for his "translation" of his Hebrew Roots Version, he made a connection to the foundational theology of false prophet Michael John Rood. Roods beginnings and many of his current teachings are linked directly to Way International theology. But more than that. People who work together and believe together, are joined together. It has been alleged that Chris Lingle and Eric Sandquist were both reportedly 'former' Way International members and worked, and Sandquist continues to work, with James Trimm. If true, that means they also, at least while in The Way, denied the Deity of Jesus Christ. James Trimm's claim to translate from the original Hebrew manuscripts is also not academically accurate. The supposed Hebrew Matthews or Shem Tob Matthew are from the 1400-1500 range CE. Precisely, ShemTob is dated 1380, while DuTillet and Muenster are about 1550. Together they make up the "Middle Ages Matthews" but, they are very different, and as one stated, that is one of the ironies. Hugh Schonfeld and James Trimm mostly push DuTillet. Michael Rood and George Howard promote the Shem Tob version. The Greek Matthew is from the 250-400 CE range. And so it goes. For more in-depth on the Shem Tov analysis please see :Newsflash! "Raiders" of Nothing of Value Michael Rood of A Rood Awakening and Nehemia Gordon, US Speaking Tour January 2005 Shem Tob's "Matthew", which any textual critic will tell you, is nothing more than a corrupted medieval text, which was a corrupt copy of the Greek or Latin text. It is also used extensively in footnotes in James Trimm's HRV, and never identifies Jesus as the Christ such as is seen in Matthew 1:1, "these are the generations of Jesus..." rather than the KJV's, "The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David,..." etc. NKJV 1:1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham: Hugh Schonfields 1:1 These are the generations of Yeshua, the son of David, the son of Avraham Trimm's HRV 1:1 These are the generations of Yeshua, the son of David, the son of Avraham Aside from never acknowledging Jesus as the Christ and omitting phrasing that confirms His Deity, Shem Tob Matthew also has many other doctrinal changes, including elimination of verses. Trimm quotes and sources Hugh Schonfield works, including his, An Old Hebrew Text of St. Matthew's Gospel, which suggests that Hebrew, not Greek, is the original text of the New Testament. Hugh Schonfield is best known for his writing, The Passover Plot, which uses every argument to show why the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ were not as stated in the Scriptures. He looks at the Scriptures as 'legends', and wishes to set believers free from destructive teachings and deceptions and their "fairy dust called faith." 8 Schonfield suggests in The Passover Plot, that if people, ".... depend entirely on the New Testament they cannot form a correct judgment of Jesus.” 9 “The authors, had to write up their subject with rather meager resources of documentation and living recollection” 10 He then suggested, in spite of New Testament Scriptures which declare the writings to be by revelation of the Holy Spirit, that, “Actually we are better placed now than they [the New Testament writers]” 11 Schonfield shows us his way to finding the 'truth', writing, “...To reach conclusions which can fairly be regarded as corresponding as nearly as possible to the reality entails a vast amount of analysis and comparisons, the patient piecing together of a host of hints and scraps of tradition, and in particular a sympathetic involvement in the affairs of the Jewish people and detachment from considerations of Christian theology.” 12 In what becomes his speculation and actual denunciation of the Scriptural account of Jesus Christ, Schonfield writes, “We are nowhere claiming for our reconstruction that it represents what actually happened.” 13 That speculation becomes an exercise to destroy the validity of the Scriptures, the Deity of Jesus Christ, His crucifixion, His burial, His being raised from the dead and His ascension to the right hand of the Father. It attempts to destroy who Jesus Christ is, and the witness found in the New Testament. It's common for all in these groups to reference David Stern's Complete Jewish Bible (CJB), which is not a literal translation of the original. Stern decided that the CJB would be better utilized, if he supplied a companion, which he called the Jewish New Testament Commentary [JNTC]. James Trimm has often referred to David Sterns commentary in his writings and has quoted it extensively, as he does the Shem Tob Matthew. All in these groups seem to have promoted the ISR, or continue to do so. The ISR uses the Textus Receptus [NT] and the Masoretic text [OT] as it's base text. Those are the same base texts for the King James Version. The ISR sources are also stated as being, "... The Old Covenant is based on the Massoretic Hebrew and Aramaic text, according to the 1937 edition of Kittel's Biblia Hebraica. The New Covenant is based on the Textus Receptus, being modified with the use of such other texts as the Nestle-Aland and Shem Tob, as seemed appropriate. ..." 14 Unfortunately, the ISR inserted their "choice" of sacred names, and then went on to use corrupted Alexandrian texts as well as Shem Tob Matthew, which ends up in a pseudo "corrupt" KJV version. The ISR omits the reference to the Messiah's Deity [Theos/God] from 1 Timothy 3:16. They clearly did not follow the Received Text on this and other very definitive passage that illustrates the Deity of The Messiah. For those important verses such as Colossians 2:9, the ISR appears to have switched to the Alexandrian text, which is what the Westcott and Hort, Nestle Aland and other base texts are and which most new Bible translations are based on, such as the NIV. See: The Clapham Sect, The Ghost Society & The Word of God; Bible Versions: Topical Comparison Charts; etc. "The Scriptures" (ISR), endorsed by James Trimm on various forums, as a good translation, is also endorsed and used by Tom Mitchell. It's also promoted and sold by Marshall Moshe Koniuchowsky, and Michael Rood and many others. Koniuchowsky and Norman Willis, and others, also sell or have in the past, sold or promoted Trimm's HRV. It should be clarified that Norman Willis did not directly sell Trimm's HRV. Rather, his use and endorsement of it and James Trimm's writings on his website led him to tell people how and where they could obtain the HRV. On July 14, 2005, James Trimm posted an endorsement of the HRV from Norman Willis. In that endorsement Willis stated, " "...At long last, I finally received my copy of James Trimm's Hebrew Roots Version of the Scriptures (the HRV). I must say that I am impressed. James Trimm has done his usual scholarly job of leaving a trail of high-quality, trackable notes... I have not had time to go through the book entirely, but it appears that James Trimm has done a superior job. My only real comment is that I would like it very much if he were to come out with an HRV in a 'parallel edition,' with the English translation on the left, and the Hebrew/Aramaic Text on the right (with all of the same footnotes and annotations). If he did that, I am certain I would trade up from my Artscroll Tanach. The HRV appears not only to be a good translation, but it also contains very valuable commentary. It appears to be well worth having, and I am sure I will make good use of mine. James Trimm's scholarship has exceeded my expectations. I understand that the book is available (and in stock) at http://www.aleftavjudaica.com/. You can also write to the owner of AlefTavJudaica, Dominick Zangla, at dominick@.... I believe that any serious student or scholar of Scripture will find this edition well worth having... [i Received my HRV by Yosef ben Ruach (Norman Willis); From: "James Trimm" <jstrimm@...> Date: Thu Jul 14, 2005 ; Subject: I Received my HRV http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sanj-update/message/717] In October 2005, I received an email from Norman Willis, stating that because of James Trimm's failure to deliver the HRV to other people, he no longer is associated with or endorses him. He had been giving Trimm the benefit of the doubt despite the many articles and reports discussing Trimm's business practices and beliefs. Norman wanted it known that he never benefited financially from the endorsement of the HRV and did not sell it directly, but rather his purpose in promoting it, "was trying to help foster interest in Hebraic Roots research." Apparently even the kabbalist teachings were not a recognized red flag of warning for many. Nor is there a distancing by Norman Willis, on the actual Shem Tov Matthew as a source of truth despite the facts concerning it. Willis had been a speaker at Koniuchowsky's conferences, events and his writings were endorsed and promoted by Koniuchowsky. See: Marshall Moshe Yoseph Koniuchowsky As noted in the article, Michael John Rood: Messianic Karaite Rabbi, Norman Willis also promoted Michael Rood's Calendar from his website, and advocated a one time tithe to Rood's associate, Nehemiah Gordon and his Karaite Korner, and tithes to these various leaders as being to the Levite priesthood. He also recounted Michael Rood donning priesthood garments in order to perform a ceremony with Willis. See: Michael Rood: WAY Colleagues, Occult Calendars & False Prophecies. There is also no mention of his disassociation from these or others he has been working with. As stated previously, it seems that many in the Hebrew Roots movement are teaching that Jesus was a teacher, a good man, a prophet, a sage like many other sages, but many are not clearly confessing that He is, in fact, God. Jeremiah 23:28-32 28 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD. 29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces? 30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour. 31 Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith. 32 Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD. The problem with many in the "roots" movement is found in the desire to be unique. They long for an original Hebrew version of the New Testament, believing the Greek inadequate and often believing the propaganda of the Trimm and Rood's of this world, that all the Greek manuscripts results in corruption of translation. Unfortunately, because they have not been able to produce anything but a corrupted Hebrew copy of the Greek or Latin texts from late 1400's, they feel the need to try and insert [restore] Hebrew words into the Greek texts. Hence we have Trimms's HRV rendition, Koniuchowsky's rendition, and so on, all for those who willingly shell out the required fees. Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Psalm 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. The underlying sourcing of the various writings, like Shem Tob Matthew, etc., appears to be for the purpose of eliminating Scriptural truth about the Deity of Jesus Christ, and all that pertains to who He is and what He has done. That is not unusual. The Bible, which many denigrate and attempt to rewrite, reveals the spiritual condition of those who reject Jesus Christ. 1 John 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

"She's making sure she is not dreaming. See the lights of a neighbor's house, Now she's starting to rise. Take a minute to concentrate And she opens up her eyes." "...was proud about it... no doubt about it. She isn't sure about what she's done. No time to think about what to tell him. No time to think about what she's done" "things were looking like a movie. She had a pleasant elevation. She's moving out in all directions."

"She's making sure she is not dreaming. See the lights of a neighbor's house, Now she's starting to rise. Take a minute to concentrate And she opens up her eyes." "She had a pleasant elevation. She's moving out in all directions."

I think Shirley was Irish. She was Shirley Feeney, her father was Jack Feeney. LENNY was Polish, Lenny Koznowski. (Something like that.)