WordWolf

Uptown, forgive me if I remain cynical that this will result in any changes other than cosmetic at CES/STFI. Too much work and too much humility needed to truly revamp the group-they'll need to gut much of the current focus, and that's going to take admitting their foci were completely wrong. I think they're going to keep their baggage, make no real changes, announce an exploratory committee to examine some stuff and be very vague about what they're doing, maybe announce that a few times, and that's the last real action you're going to see on that. Ever. CES/STFI is free to prove me wrong on that-and I hope they will. However, I'm thinking about a leopard and spots here.

I used to have to log in twice when logging in-consistently, every single time- but I didn't get logged out otherwise. I AM mindful of being "timed out", but it hasn't happened yet. I just discovered that if I wait for the log in and ignore the link to click when waiting, it finishes and I don't have to repeat it. I hope this works consistently.

Neo, Hello. :) This is some rough, harsh stuff to go over. You might want to go slow, and take some time to digest it. There's no hurry, and you can go at any pace you can adjust to. You don't have to impress anyone by accepting it fast, or not having emotions about it, or any other action. You don't even have to impress yourself by showing off, either. :) We can pick up any discussion of same months from now, whenever you've read everything and digested it. We'll be here.

Bingo. We've seen a sermon while hearing one, on this thread. 20 points for ex10. You win the internet.

[so strong-convictions=possessed. What's next, witch-hunts? Gonna check if someone has fur inside their skin to prove they turn into a wolf? Check for moles as proof of a bargain with the devil?] [Now you can read his mind. Wowzer.I might have said something like "he might be more ready to consider that maybe Jesus isn't (not wasn't) God the Creator of Heaven and Earth." But you know he partly doesn't believe it, somewhere in his head. Amazing. If you can do that face-to-face, you'd clean up on Jeopardy!, Millionaire, and Weakest Link.] [i appreciate your candor. Strong convictions means "possessed", and "emotional against vp" means "bad judgement". Evidence, apparently, is irrelevant. Me, I would think that a laundry list of the crimes of a criminal would be WORTH some emotion, but I don't speak for everyone.] [someone said it was all "written off as 'deception''? Who claimed that one. Most claim its contents are SUSPECT because they were assembled and presented deceptively. A few people discount all Christian endeavours, and thus pfal gets dismissed with all other Christians, but that's hardly the popular position here. Who's been posting this, John?]

[WordWolf in boldface and brackets again.]

Ok, next movie. "What do you read, my lord?" "Words. Words. Words." "What is the matter?" "Between who?" "I mean, the matter that you read" "I see a cherub that sees them."

Hang on, I'll need to do a little quote-seeking first.....

That might sound like an exaggeration. However, A) RTHST was entirely a cut-and-paste of content from other authors- primarily Stiles and Bullinger. The driest section, I'm sure you can recognize, was the contents of Bullinger's book now known as "Word Studies on the Holy Spirit", the 385 references to "spirit" in the New Testament. B) Some of Bullinger's books were pretty small. Take all the content of ADAN, remove the content of "the Rich Man and Lazarus..." by Bullinger, and remove the content of "Saul and the Witch at Endor", by Bullinger, neither of which is cited in ADAN, and what you get is the cover, the intro and the acknowledgements page. I could go on (like mention the Orange Book's contents), but everyone who is able to get the point has already gotten the point. He took large amounts of material from books, sometimes their entire contents, and put them into "his" books, sometimes making up their entire contents. That's what I said, the evidence supports it, and that's what he did. And it was a crime each time, because he didn't cite his sources when he did that. ====== BTW, you were fine with him demoting parts of Genesis, then? You were conspicuously silent on that while trying to deny aspects of vpw's plagiarism.... Some attempts to the contrary, THIS is what this thread is about. Amazing how there's been multiple attempts to change the subject- accusing Moses of plagiarism, calling "vpw's books" "the word of God", denying the extent of his plagiarism....

Well, since it's on the tapes from ROA '79, and vpw said, proudly, "It Is Available", I consider that as authoritative as vpw putting it in writing. Perhaps HE was mistaken. Perhaps he didn't know that the policies had changed at least 3 years ago. If so, he suddenly seems to know a LOT less than he usually did....

Fascinating. See, if Oakspear or George Aar said this, I wouldnt bat an eye. It is consistent with their general positions- that the Bible is not THE Divine Book, direct from God. However, one who claims it IS is now suddenly trying to downgrade, to demote, parts of Holy Scripture. Is he doing this because he no longer believes it is The Word of God? No, it seems he's demoting part of the Book of Genesis in an attempt to absolve the plagiarizing fraud, vpw, of wrongdoing when he knowingly took the books of others, moved some words around, and put his name on the cover, pretending they never wrote THEIR books. And while we're at it, "vpw's books" (the works of others rephrased or reprinted with vpw's name on them) have now become "the word of God." Am I misunderstanding it? You tell me. Looks like "vpw's" books have been pronounced "the word of God" when I wasn't looking.

That's funny- you were told it was available. When you asked, you were specifically told it was no longer available. And yet, from the mainstage at ROA '79, vpw himself said-3 years after YOU were told it WASN'T- he said it WAS. (Even if the policy changed 20 minutes before your letter was received, that's still 3 years' difference.) Seems like crowds were told it WAS, but anyone who ASKED was told it WASN'T.

Was something supposed to happen?

For next time, you can do what I did for Pete's Dragon. http://www.google.com enter into the search "firewall" "movie" "quotes" and hit return. The first page should have a bunch of quotes from the movie on at least 1 page. In this case, the first result DOES. In my case, I pulled one quote off the page, and one from my memory from when I saw the movie long ago. Sometimes you can even get the entire SCRIPT.

Now we're showing 28.

The Most Right Reverend G. Gordon Godfrey says he wants to talk to you about a franchise operation....

Maybe it's a screen error. Before we crossed 200 users, we'd almost certainly crash the server. If not, page downloads would slow to a crawl. I'm seeing 37 users right now. ===== And NOW I'm seeing 317, but the numbers of guests, anonymous users and users totals 37. MUST be a screen error.

I suspect it's at least 5% when it comes to word-for-word plagiarism. Documentation of his plagiarism abounds, and some of it's linked up the page. However, as some people are fond of forgetting, if you move some of the words around, it is STILL PLAGIARISM. Plagiarism can be word-for-word, paragraph-for-paragraph, chapter-for-chapter, concept-for-concept, book-for-book. Paragraph for paragraph is when the plagiarist takes the original work, restates each paragraph in his own words, and pretends it's his own work by leaving off any citations, hoping to deceive and defraud the listener. Chapter-for-chapter is when he does that with the chapters, so you have 2 books that handle the same subjects in the same order, using the same concepts and sources, with the wordings moved around a bit. It's still fraud and still a crime. (Same for concept and book.) ========== As for "what was the intent of the scam artist when he attempted to defraud the readers", there are only 2 possibilities: A) He had no idea he was committing a crime, and so there's no malice. This would now require he have not made it thru a competent high school, no college, and no grad school, and have no editor. vpw obviously does not fall in this category. He heard all about plagiarism in high school, college AND grad school, and if his doctorate was actually earned, he heard it there too. (Princeton Theological Seminary, where he earned his Masters, has never glossed over this crime-it's a respectable learning institution.) B) He knew he was committing a crime, and chose to do so anyway. What possible reasons could he have? Well, there's only one, really- he intended to deceive his audience as to what was his own work, to artificially inflate his own talent, to cheat the REAL authors of their proper credit. It helped him promote the exclusivity of "his" books and classes- by denying there is any other source than himself for the material. Of course, INTENT of a premeditated crime really is not much of an issue- they considered the situation and elected to commit a crime. This is hardly along the lines of "I stole food to feed my starving family"- it's really "I stole to make a product to sell, and to inflate my image".

Right. "Lower Decks." I really liked this episode, because it gave a rare look at some of the JUNIOR officers on the ship, of whom. there's hundreds. It also mentions that one of the cadets from Nova Squadron's disaster in "the First Duty", Ensign Sito (Sito Jaxa, a Bajoran) graduated and served on the Enterprise at Picard's request. (We'll never hear of Locarno again, because he's played by the actor who plays Tom Paris- and Locarno was rejected as the character he was to play in Voyager. One of the 5 was Josh Alpert, who died, one was Wesley Crusher, one was Locarno, one was Sito Jaxa. Hm. I wonder if they ever wrote about the 5th one.) Worf was an officer who appreciated Ensign Sito's performance, and she was a student in some of his martial arts classes. One of the best scenes, IMHO, was when they were playing poker, and the senior staff was playing poker, and the camera cut back and forth between the games and conversations. Your turn, George.

"There's one thing I don't understand. Doesn't gik'tal mean 'to the death'?" "You... speak Klingon?" "Sir... is there really such a thing as the gik'tal challenge?" "No... there is not.... But perhaps the next time you are judged unfairly, you will not have to suffer so many bruises before you protest."

Mind you, the claim Stiles was told to go to Tulsa by God Almighty and "record of snow" is based on an account purely from vpw and no other source: page 198, "The Way:Living in Love": ""So I left the meeting, slipped out, went to my hotel and called the airport. I was all set to check out. But a funny thing had happened- there was a blizzard in Tulsa. All the planes were grounded, So I couldn't get a plane. I tried the trains-they were all snowed in. The buses-same thing. The city was snowbound. I just couldn't get out! Well, I called back the airport, and they said they could put me on standby for the night. I asked the girl on the phone, 'Does this happen all the time?' She said, 'No, this is the first time.' "Doctor punctuates his story with a rumbling laugh. He continues his account, pointing the car squarely towards the widening patch of blue sky." "The next morning, I still hadn't left town. I went to breakfast at the hotel, sat down next to a straight guy. He looked me over and recognized me. He began, 'Aren't you the Evangelical and Reformed preacher who spoke in tongues last night?' I said, 'Yes, but it was a da*n lie.' Then he said he knew I was dam*ed because I cussed. That ended our conversation. Then a woman came over to me, and said, 'I think God sent a man here to meet your need. Meet me at 9am.' I thought, 'Women never tell the truth.' But then I reconsidered, since I was stuck in town anyway. So I decided to meet her. I got to the place she said at 9am, and there she was. She introduced me to a man named J.E. Stiles. He'd come in from the West Coast. A few days before, God had told him to go to Tulsa to minister the holy spirit to one man. We talked for a few minutes, and he suggested we gointo the rally to hear Oral Roberts and then meet for lunch. So that's what we did. At lunchtime Stiles came in with his wife and the pianist. I just remember thinking to myself, 'There aren't going to be any women around when I get the holy spirit.'" Now, concerning this blizzard in Tulsa, we also know this... "The Tulsa Tribune notes that the temperature that day was 60 degrees [Farenheit], and the overnight low never even got down to freezing. December 1951 records in 'Climatological Data for Oklahoma' show only 5/10 an inch of snow in Dec 8 and 6/10 inch on Dec 20. NEITHER date concurs with Wierwille's visit, and neither records anything near a blizzard which could stop ALL BUSSES AND TRAINS. Way Corps graduate Barries Hill later confirmed that the rally was the Divine Healing Convention, December 11-13, 1951, sponsored by 'the Voice of Healing' magazine, and that Wierwille stayed at the Hotel Tulsa (which was razed in 1973.) Hill notes that the weather bureau, newspapers and airport do NOT record a snowstorm at that time. When she mentioned this to Wierwille, he dismissed these facts by suggesting that the blizzard was "a phenomenon" or that he "spoke with angels" when he called the airport, train station and bus station. (Wierwille conveniently blames holy angels for LYING to him about the weather rather than admit his fabrication!)" http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/quz_itulsasnow.htm So, we know for a fact that the blizzard itself was a complete lie, a fabrication, a falsehood, but we're supposed to believe that the man who was caught lying about the blizzard told the absolute truth about Stiles hearing from God that he was supposed to be in town SPECIFICALLY to meet with the proven liar. Having seen vpw BLATANTLY lie concerning the day and circumstances of his meeting Stiles, we're supposed to take him at his word concerning the OTHER details of that day. Now, if any OTHER person was caught lying to you about an incident on the parts you could check, would you believe them on that incident when they said things you couldn't check? If it was ANYONE BUT VPW, you would NOT trust them like that. (If you would-let me know; I can find some people looking for people that gullible.) Apparently, we ARE supposed to accept vpw's word on something after he's been caught lying about the exact same incident! vpw always tells the complete truth-except where he's been undeniably caught lying. vpw WAS, after all, caught lying about the reason he supposedly was in town, and a blizzard grinding the city's transit to a halt. But of course, what's a few small details to get in the way of our agenda? We will just let vpw change those.

"A Fistful of Datas." The holodeck program was the Western.

And I thought this was too tough. Go, Ca!