WordWolf

The Most Right Reverend G. Gordon Godfrey is signalling me that he needs a break-

no, wait-ANOTHER message, Most Right?

"I cannot cease when Da Lawd has a message, I MUST speak!

Potato,

you need not concern yourself-you are not becoming more like your parents!

And that wardrobe thing is hardly worthy of fretting over.

We started off with the general "how could he know this?" stuff.

Who's NOT at least a little concerned with becoming more like their parents?

Who doesn't have SOME issue about their clothing, of SOME kind?

But the next part is ESPECIALLY nasty, ESPECIALLY insidious,

and rates special attention.

However,

you must be VERY careful when driving or riding in a car the next few weeks!

I have seen a horse throwing its rider to the ground and stomping on them,

and the interpretation is that there will be a car accident soon!

We don't want to see you hurt, dear one! Be very careful!"

*goes backstage*

Looks like the MRR GGG needs a break.

NOW we see something the "personal prophecy" people might recognize directly.

It's JUST as generic as the rest-some possible car problem-

but it's dressed up completely.

We have the special mystical imagery, and the interpretation.

The net result is that it looks like a special message.

It's just a lie with a lot of setup.

What if there's not even a LITTLE car problem?

Then, obviously, the caution has prevented it-disaster averted!

The charlatan wins with this one no matter what!

Again, I pulled this from generic predictions, and just dressed it up

to sound just like these "prophetic" messages.

Is it crystal-clear NOW to everyone just how easy it is-

with a little work-

to make up all sorts of "personal prophecies" and make them sound

real and holy?

We can make up more examples if necessary, but I hope it's clear

to just about everyone now, if not before.

Rascal, wait, he's got one for you, too!

"Oh, Rascal...

I see some sort of difficulty with a family member.

No matter what, remember that they still love you.

That health issue that's concerning you: God will deliver you from it in due time.

Be steadfast and of a good courage.

You can relax concerning money. He has said that-so long as you plan carefully-

all will be well.

You might wish to make a few career changes, however. Things could use a bit of a

shot-in-the-arm.

He is proud of you for all the personal growth you've done in the last few years.

He is pleased with you."

*goes back to his seat*

Again, we see the principles at work here.

Who here ISN'T having "some sort of difficulty with a family member"?

That could mean a kid with a simple tantrum or not eating his greens,

it could mean shouting matches with a sibling, marital distress or a simple argument,

a cousin with a stealing or drinking problem, whatever.

Just about any relationship with any relative could be squeezed to fit this.

Who doesn't have a "health issue" concerning them?

The youngest posters here-teens and 20s- MIGHT not, but certainly those over their

40s each think about SOMETHING with their health.

Could be a cold, a bruised shin, an allergy, hypertension, obesity, or any of hundreds

of other things.

Who isn't thinking about money and needs to relax about it? Only the very wealthy-

and they think about it EVEN MORE, mostly. This comment could apply to just about

any money issue at any level.

Career changes? Whose career couldn't use at least a SMALL improvement?

Oh, and the last part was especially insidious- which means you've probably heard

it at least once.

People LIKE to hear how great they are. Of course everyone WANTS to believe they're

growing and maturing. Even if it's completely false. They will WANT to believe a

"personal prophesy" that says they are, and WILL believe it if they can.

Who would dare to argue with "God is happy with you"?

Who would WANT to?

Do you mean I shouldn't have rejected those offers of filthy lucre?? :(

Personally,

I was surprised to find the references in the one I randomly selected for you.

It sounded like it COULD have happened, certainly, moreso for you than some people

when it got to that.

I suppose most people have had SOME sort of offer at SOME sort of level at SOME point

in their life.

I think, however, it illustrates how "personal prophecy" can so specifically hit the

"there's know way she could have known that-it must be real"

aspects, but still have been 100% balloon juice.

Raf,

The Most Reverend is signalling me that you have a long, successful future as an

extrapersonal prophet. Or something.

Wait-he's signalling again. He's pointing to Belle.

Most Reverend, has God sent you a message for her?

"He has indeed!

Oh, Belle,

he is sending me a warning for you! I see betrayal!

People close to you have taken advantage of you!

Oh, dear Belle!

You have suffered for your basic honesty!

You have been offered opportunities that you have had offered to you in the past have had to be surrendered because you refused to take advantage of others!

You have refused the temptations of filthy lucre!

On the bright side is your hunger for knowledge.

You like to read books and articles to improve your mind.

In fact, if you're not already in some sort of personal service business, helping people, you should be.

You must be-I see you helping people in an office.

You have a deep, deep capacity for understanding people's problems and you can sympathize with them.

But you are firm when confronted with obstinacy or outright stupidity.

Your sense of justice is quite strong."

*breaks down crying*

I think we'll need to give MRR GGG a few minutes here.

And a glass of water.

Again,

I took a completely generic "prophecy" I pulled off the internet, and applied it to the next

person, who was Belle. I did NOT select for ones that I thought would fit-

I deliberately went with the order of the posters, in the order that I pulled the predictions

off different websites.

Then I dressed it up with lots of holy speech and physical drama.

Those who know Belle may think this sounds like her.

Which it might.

It also might apply to EVERYONE in the thread, and most people READING the thread.

It only SOUNDED specific to her.

If she WANTED to believe it was genuine, she would have walked off thinking that.

Of course, I made it clear in the first post that these would all be FALSE before we even

began. However, they may sound awfully familiar to those of you who supposedly

have heard genuine ones.

No, wait, he's got another message!

*crawls back to the microphone*

"I was stricken with a powerful message from God Almighty!

He was warning that scoffers will come, as in the days of Noah!

They will claim that my messages are not truly of Him who has sent them!

They will try to turn you away from my message!

Do not turn away from the messages of God Almighty-

for the alternative is the outer darkness of ignorance, where there is no

direction, and those in ignorance seek to drag you down to their level of

ignorance! Pay no attention to them! Only in perfect obedience to His Will

is safety! You must follow Him without question!

And I will continue to give you His messages, of course!"

This one should be obvious, given the context.

Someone posted a warning about supposed prophets.

So, IMMEDIATELY, the charlatan began prophecying "spin control."

"Oh, God has said that someone will tell you I'm making this up.

God said to ignore them and never doubt I'm speaking for them."

All of you ex-twi people should remember the tactic of silencing the opposition,

which is still a common practice among some ex-twi'ers,

even with the nasty qualifier twi gave, which is that if you're questioning

THEM, then you're questioning GOD ALMIGHTY and that's sinful.

This may sound VERY familiar.

ESPECIALLY to those of you CES/STFI'ers who are reading but not posting.

As Raf has pointed out, turning your advice, counsel and directives into

"the Voice of the Lord God Almighty" is silencing dissent.

You're saying that it's PERFECT advice, PERFECT counsel,

and it's fighting against God to even mull it over.

WOW!

How much for the video? Or do I have to buy a book to explain the video to me? Or does the video hawk the book?

Wait, I'm getting a vision!

I see a man in a t-shirt and black pants. He's surrounded by vampires and werewolves, and they're all laughing. Many of them have halos over their heads, but several others are crying. The man goes to the crying wolves and vampires, wipes their tears and turns them into halos!

Almighty God has spoken! He's saying something that sounds like carp, or harp, or tarp. It's a little fuzzy. Larp? Naah.

Now, let me go into more detail here.

Most charlatans will exercise their "prophetic ability" FACE TO FACE.

This allows them to use the hundreds of nonverbal cues people give off to

supplement their generic statements.

You've seen the generic statements-now we add more specific ones.

This is called a "cold read" or a "cold reading."

One stage magician (and Christian) explained this sort of thing when on a show

WITH a cold-reader (who fled when the stage magician was revealed and

after she was tricked into making a false "cold-read" on him.)

One woman asked about her daughter, in college.

He asked her a leading question about her social activity level-is she outgoing?

Now, either she WAS or she was NOT.

If she WAS, then the mother is concerned the daughter is partying and not

studying.

If she was NOT, then the mother is concerned the daughter is studying too HARD

and not taking any down-time and socializing.

So, then, based on her answer, he begins "prophesying".

That's how cold-reading works.

That's the USUAL method.

HOWEVER,

if the "personal prophet" can actually get PERSONAL DATA on the person they're reading

for, then they're SET. They can tailor the "prophecy" to tell all sorts of things the person

WANTS to hear, or DREADS HEARING.

This is called "HOT-READING."

Raf did that one here.

He knew a hobby of the person he was "reading for", and dressed it up in dramatic

"personal prophecy" imagery.

Now it looks like he's getting a message, when all he's done is a little research.

If you know PERSONALLY the person you're "reading for", you can easily figure out

what's on their mind, what concerns them, what they fear-

then you can compose a "personal prophecy" that directs them to act as you wish,

since it seems to be "personal", when all it did was utilize what a friend would know,

added holy trappings, and labelled it "of God",

and thus BEYOND QUESTION.

It seems we've seen this sort of thing mentioned in the letters.

Any friend COULD dress up advice this way, but only one lacking a conscience WOULD.

And that's a "hot-read."

The Most Reverend G. Gordon Godfrey, are you getting a message for Raf?

"I am indeed!"

*steps down and places his hands over Raf*

That, of course, was the window-dressing.

Here we have another generic "prophecy" I pulled off the internet.

I added the holy trappings, and personalized the language slightly,

but the substance was ALL from the generic prediction.

"Amazing" how it SEEMS to fit, no?

Bet it would seem that way if 1/2 the posters here were told this applied to THEM.

"The LORD, He is showing me something-He is showing me your past.

Yes, you have always been a sensitive person, in tune with events around you.

You chose well for a career, didn't you?

When you were younger, you were different from other people that you knew.

No, you did NOT fit in.

You have always been a little on the outside of things.

Your intuition is strong. Yes, you have always been a bit sensitive to God's Will in your life.

You have occasionally dreamed of things before they happened, or at least had a strong sense of 'deja vu' under certain circumstances.

In fact, you YOURSELF might have the calling of an extrapersonal prophet!

You are also a caring and honest person, too much so at times. You've had difficulty in letting people get to know the real you. When you finally do let someone inside, you keep him or her close to you for a long time.

In fact, right this minute,

there is someone that you are close to that you are concerned about right now. Fear not.

You worry too much. You can best help this person by continuing to be a positive influence in their life.

Remain constant in prayer and remain ready to bless them.

God Almighty has SPOKEN!"

"Oh, and don't forget, I've prepared a DVD on hearing God's Will in your life. You can buy it

at the door when you leave."

The next-to-last paragraph is one of the more convincing things.

How many people here are "concerned" about someone "close to them"?

Right- EVERYONE!

So, the generic "pray and stand ready" SOUNDS specific, but it's like a Dr telling you to

get plenty of sleep and fluids- it's general good advice that doesn't hurt.

We ended with the sales pitch. Sooner or later, the "personal prophet's" "prophecies"

will lead to them getting money from the marks- either thru donations ("prayer offerings"),

sales, or some other form. Normally, it's said separately, but the connection is still there.

Again, it may feel familiar, if you've been asked for money in some way after getting a

"personal prophecy".

Well,

We could play this game longer, but I think we've gone as far as we need to.

So, now I'm going to explain.

What you saw in this thread was a demonstration of some of the ways charlatans make up

"personal prophecies", no matter what they call them.

They can sound remarkably accurate, and some may draw from the personal information of what

is known to the speaker. In all cases, it has to be dressed up in a package, a format,

that the person is willing to accept. Please note that usually, the person WANTS to believe

this is true prophecy, and will leap on any chance to believe it so.

Now,

EVERY SINGLE "PROPHECY" I posted on this thread, I pulled off the internet,

and I applied them in the order that I pulled them,

with NO attempts to make them apply to people, no matter what I knew about them.

In each case, I DID dress up the language with pious platitudes, phrases from Scripture,

and in a few cases, slight comments on what was already said that were based on what

I knew. However, the substance of every "prophecy" was completely GENERIC, and

could have been used interchangeably for ANY of the posters who lined up,

or anyone else, for that matter.

(In fact, some of you may have heard some of them "prophecied" to you already.)

Every single one was a con job, as I said.

Step Right Up, Folks, and be the first one on your block to get your own Personal Prophecy!

The first thing we need is the "right" personal prophet.

Let's see...

I introduce Rhea, the Medium!

*stereotyped gypsy woman enters and does an elaborate salaam*

Well done, Medium Rhea!

However, in this PARTICULAR crowd, you don't have the "right" look, the look that they will

accept. So, scram.

*leaves*

Did anyone get the joke I snuck in here?

(Say it out loud and you might.)

But the packaging of a "personal prophecy" must match the form the listener

(aka the pigeon, the mark, the gullible) is willing to receive. Remember, in general, the

audience ALREADY WANTS TO BELIEVE. It is more difficult to convince the skeptic.

So, I introduce the Most Right Reverent G.Gordon Godfrey!

*WASP enters with perfectly-ironed suit, and Brylcreemed hair*

Perfect!

We have the look, now we need the messages!

Now, when practicing "curious arts", this process begins with what is called a "cold reading"

or a "cold-read". That's when a person claims to use some supernatural power to divine

a message, but instead uses their skill at studying people to figure out what the subject

wants to hear, and then tells it to them.

Next, we will need to package the message properly.

MRR GGG will demonstrate.

*steps forward, eyes clenched, face toward heaven, enraptured*

*raises holy hands*

"Yes, I see you reading this right this minute-God has shown me this.

You have doubts about His messages that He is delivering to you via my ministry.

Therefore, he has bidden me to give you this PERSONAL message,

this message DIRECTLY to you from GOD ALMIGHTY,

in which I am only a humble messenger.

Now, here comes a generic "personality profile" that's written so that ANYONE

could read it, and think it applied to them.

Here is the message.

The Spirit of the LORD is upon me. He has anointed me with his message to you.

At this hour, the LORD wishes you to know how He has a PERSONAL interest in your

life-yes, YOUR life. He has followed you through ALL your days, and will now speak

to YOU.

He wishes to tell you that He is aware that some of your aspirations tend to be pretty unrealistic.

He sees you, and knows that at times you are extroverted, affable, sociable,

while at other times you are introverted, wary and reserved.

The LORD sees that, and this is as it should be.

Further, The LORD has seen your disappointments and broken trusts of the past.

They have made you cautious in revealing yourself to others.

You take pride in your ability to think for yourself, and do not accept others' opinions without satisfactory proof.

As to satisfaction, you prefer a certain amount of change and variety, and become dissatisfied when hemmed in by restrictions and limitations. At times you have serious doubts as to whether you have made the right decision or done the right thing. Fear not. When you follow His will, which I will reveal to you,

you will ALWAYS make the right decisions. You need no longer be worried on the inside, maintaining your

control on the outside.

Now, as to your personal life, your sexual adjustment has presented some problems for you.

This is nothing you need concern yourself about unduly.

While you have some personality weaknesses, you are generally able to compensate for them.

Remember that in your weakness, His strength is made perfect.

You have a great deal of unused capacity which you have not turned to your advantage.

He is aware of this, and will present you opportunities to do so at the appointed hour. Be vigilant.

You have a tendency to be critical of yourself. You have a strong need for other people to like you and for them to admire you. Neither of these should concern you, for The LORD, He sees you and accepts you,

and as long as you follow His instructions-which He will give you through me, you will always please Him."

Well, done, Most Right Reverend!

Now then, you've seen his personal prophecy to you who's reading this right now.

Are you convinced now? How else would he have learned all that about you if God hadn't revealed it

to him? Ok, who will step up to receive a personal prophecy face-to-face from him?

Now it may renind you of "personal prophecies" you may have heard before,

done face-to-face....

Paw moderates with an exceedingly LIGHT hand.

If you get some significant moderation from him, you really had to work for it.

Most posters on most boards I frequent (translation: rank unbelievers online)

wouldn't earn such a penalty. They're mindful of simple courtesy when posting.

They may not be able to recite Scripture on it, but they understand posting with

the Golden Rule ("do unto others as you would have them do unto you").

or at LEAST the Silver Rule ("what you don't want others to do to you, don't do to them.")

I'd think about that. The unbelievers are posting nicer than you.

Be there. Aloha

(George-check out Dexter on Showtime, very similar theme)

With the Hawaiian greeting, I HAVE to go with

"Hawaii Five-Oh",

or Hawaii the 50th state.

Mahalo aloha, or something like that.

Here is something for you to think about

Revalation 17:1 the true meaning

Babylon is built at the junction of the two great rivers Tigiris and Euphrates. In olden times they were considered as being two great bodies of water. In those days other rivers were unknown. Babylon is often used to show corruption of political power. They were drunk with worldy power. Babylon means confusion. There was political confusion.

See, this reminds me of the quotes you guys have posted from lcm's wap class,

when he just invented connections between things that had no connections,

and kept going from there.

Seems someone confused "Babylon"-a country, an empire, etc

with "Babel" as in "the Tower of Babel"- from which we get confused speech as "babble".

Then they taught ck this, and he of course just memorized this without checking if it was

correct.

There is no connection between Babylon and Babel, nor Babylon and Baby,

the woman in the Dirty Dancing movie.

Similar-sounding names don't make them synonymous.

Babylon never meant confusion-whether political or otherwise. They had enough

organization to run an empire, which takes some doing.

One of their leaders, Hammurabi, is famous to this day for expanding and codifying

the existing laws of the time, and inscribing them where all citizens could read

them- the Code of Hammurabi.

I'm sure ck is unfamiliar with the Code of Hammurabi, despite some comparisons

made between penalties under the Mosaic Law and the Hammurabic Code,

observed by people like Bullinger in the Companion Bible.

Poor education makes one prone to making mistakes like this.

Babylon has had meanings involving empires and government,

but not "confusion."

That would be "Babel."

See that is how I see GS a mass of confusion with uncertainty at every step. There is no truth here at GS just confusion. So try thinking on this for a while and hopefully you can find you error.

(Just thought I would make you spill you coffee)

Since there is no hope of anything here all you do is come back to confusion. The most confusing thing about it to me is how you guys think you are right. So try believing sometime it works, it really works.

CK

Didn't need to try-the error leapt out at me.

Plus relying on your observations of the GSC is not what most observers would consider "wise."

And having confidence in God is a good thing.

However, there is no LAW of Believing, and as stated in the Blue Book,

it's completely incorrect.

We've had non-confusing discussions on it a number of times.

If you looked, you'd find some, but since you've taken the lazy way out, you won't.

What?

Oh, no!!!!!!

wait! me too, me too!!!

The Most Right Reverend G. Gordon Godfrey is signalling me that he needs a break-

no, wait-ANOTHER message, Most Right?

"I cannot cease when Da Lawd has a message, I MUST speak!

Potato,

you need not concern yourself-you are not becoming more like your parents!

And that wardrobe thing is hardly worthy of fretting over.

However,

you must be VERY careful when driving or riding in a car the next few weeks!

I have seen a horse throwing its rider to the ground and stomping on them,

and the interpretation is that there will be a car accident soon!

We don't want to see you hurt, dear one! Be very careful!"

*goes backstage*

Looks like the MRR GGG needs a break.

Oh great one, could you condescend to read for one who is most unworthy?

I will purchase your books and tapes in attempts to become more deserving.

I need the guidance from your devine council.

Rascal, wait, he's got one for you, too!

"Oh, Rascal...

I see some sort of difficulty with a family member.

No matter what, remember that they still love you.

That health issue that's concerning you: God will deliver you from it in due time.

Be steadfast and of a good courage.

You can relax concerning money. He has said that-so long as you plan carefully-

all will be well.

You might wish to make a few career changes, however. Things could use a bit of a

shot-in-the-arm.

He is proud of you for all the personal growth you've done in the last few years.

He is pleased with you."

*goes back to his seat*

No, wait, he's got another message!

*crawls back to the microphone*

"I was stricken with a powerful message from God Almighty!

He was warning that scoffers will come, as in the days of Noah!

They will claim that my messages are not truly of Him who has sent them!

They will try to turn you away from my message!

Do not turn away from the messages of God Almighty-

for the alternative is the outer darkness of ignorance, where there is no

direction, and those in ignorance seek to drag you down to their level of

ignorance! Pay no attention to them! Only in perfect obedience to His Will

is safety! You must follow Him without question!

And I will continue to give you His messages, of course!"

Raf,

The Most Reverend is signalling me that you have a long, successful future as an

extrapersonal prophet. Or something.

Wait-he's signalling again. He's pointing to Belle.

Most Reverend, has God sent you a message for her?

"He has indeed!

Oh, Belle,

he is sending me a warning for you! I see betrayal!

People close to you have taken advantage of you!

Oh, dear Belle!

You have suffered for your basic honesty!

You have been offered opportunities that you have had offered to you in the past have had to be surrendered because you refused to take advantage of others!

You have refused the temptations of filthy lucre!

On the bright side is your hunger for knowledge.

You like to read books and articles to improve your mind.

In fact, if you're not already in some sort of personal service business, helping people, you should be.

You must be-I see you helping people in an office.

You have a deep, deep capacity for understanding people's problems and you can sympathize with them.

But you are firm when confronted with obstinacy or outright stupidity.

Your sense of justice is quite strong."

*breaks down crying*

I think we'll need to give MRR GGG a few minutes here.

And a glass of water.

The Most Reverend G. Gordon Godfrey, are you getting a message for Raf?

"I am indeed!"

*steps down and places his hands over Raf*

"The LORD, He is showing me something-He is showing me your past.

Yes, you have always been a sensitive person, in tune with events around you.

You chose well for a career, didn't you?

When you were younger, you were different from other people that you knew.

No, you did NOT fit in.

You have always been a little on the outside of things.

Your intuition is strong. Yes, you have always been a bit sensitive to God's Will in your life.

You have occasionally dreamed of things before they happened, or at least had a strong sense of 'deja vu' under certain circumstances.

In fact, you YOURSELF might have the calling of an extrapersonal prophet!

You are also a caring and honest person, too much so at times. You've had difficulty in letting people get to know the real you. When you finally do let someone inside, you keep him or her close to you for a long time.

In fact, right this minute,

there is someone that you are close to that you are concerned about right now. Fear not.

You worry too much. You can best help this person by continuing to be a positive influence in their life.

Remain constant in prayer and remain ready to bless them.

God Almighty has SPOKEN!"

"Oh, and don't forget, I've prepared a DVD on hearing God's Will in your life. You can buy it

at the door when you leave."

Step Right Up, Folks, and be the first one on your block to get your own Personal Prophecy!

The first thing we need is the "right" personal prophet.

Let's see...

I introduce Rhea, the Medium!

*stereotyped gypsy woman enters and does an elaborate salaam*

Well done, Medium Rhea!

However, in this PARTICULAR crowd, you don't have the "right" look, the look that they will

accept. So, scram.

*leaves*

So, I introduce the Most Right Reverent G.Gordon Godfrey!

*WASP enters with perfectly-ironed suit, and Brylcreemed hair*

Perfect!

We have the look, now we need the messages!

Now, when practicing "curious arts", this process begins with what is called a "cold reading"

or a "cold-read". That's when a person claims to use some supernatural power to divine

a message, but instead uses their skill at studying people to figure out what the subject

wants to hear, and then tells it to them.

Next, we will need to package the message properly.

MRR GGG will demonstrate.

*steps forward, eyes clenched, face toward heaven, enraptured*

*raises holy hands*

"Yes, I see you reading this right this minute-God has shown me this.

You have doubts about His messages that He is delivering to you via my ministry.

Therefore, he has bidden me to give you this PERSONAL message,

this message DIRECTLY to you from GOD ALMIGHTY,

in which I am only a humble messenger.

Here is the message.

The Spirit of the LORD is upon me. He has anointed me with his message to you.

At this hour, the LORD wishes you to know how He has a PERSONAL interest in your

life-yes, YOUR life. He has followed you through ALL your days, and will now speak

to YOU.

He wishes to tell you that He is aware that some of your aspirations tend to be pretty unrealistic.

He sees you, and knows that at times you are extroverted, affable, sociable,

while at other times you are introverted, wary and reserved.

The LORD sees that, and this is as it should be.

Further, The LORD has seen your disappointments and broken trusts of the past.

They have made you cautious in revealing yourself to others.

You take pride in your ability to think for yourself, and do not accept others' opinions without satisfactory proof.

As to satisfaction, you prefer a certain amount of change and variety, and become dissatisfied when hemmed in by restrictions and limitations. At times you have serious doubts as to whether you have made the right decision or done the right thing. Fear not. When you follow His will, which I will reveal to you,

you will ALWAYS make the right decisions. You need no longer be worried on the inside, maintaining your

control on the outside.

Now, as to your personal life, your sexual adjustment has presented some problems for you.

This is nothing you need concern yourself about unduly.

While you have some personality weaknesses, you are generally able to compensate for them.

Remember that in your weakness, His strength is made perfect.

You have a great deal of unused capacity which you have not turned to your advantage.

He is aware of this, and will present you opportunities to do so at the appointed hour. Be vigilant.

You have a tendency to be critical of yourself. You have a strong need for other people to like you and for them to admire you. Neither of these should concern you, for The LORD, He sees you and accepts you,

and as long as you follow His instructions-which He will give you through me, you will always please Him."

Well, done, Most Right Reverend!

Now then, you've seen his personal prophecy to you who's reading this right now.

Are you convinced now? How else would he have learned all that about you if God hadn't revealed it

to him? Ok, who will step up to receive a personal prophecy face-to-face from him?

So, in short, Belle,

you're saying that twi insinuated itself into your personal life and marriage,

and that twi and its practices and doctrines were the reasons for your divorce,

since you wouldn't just blindly follow them, but your husband did, even when they badmouthed you...

....and you see a similarity in this and how the other divorce we are discussing fell out,

correct? That Elizabeth was placed in a position where following her conscience resulted

in CES/STFI insinuating themselves into her personal life and marriage,

and invented and magnified problems- like inventing these so-called "personal prophecies"-

specifically to either intimidate her into silence (forcing conformity), or to convince

JAL that God Almighty has decided he should divorce,

correct?

Is that what you're saying?

Well,

it's believed (with reason) among the ex-twi community that Jesus Christ had an earthly ministry of about

a year, and it had a specific purpose with a specific goal.

Contrast that with the apostles he chose, and the disciples who follwed him (about 120 at first) including

Paul whom he chose personally, who had years to put things into practice.

That's not to say that studying how Jesus did things when here is without merit-

FAR FROM IT.

However, it's easier to find examples of practice in Acts, to find recommendations or reproof in

the Epistles, so chalk that down partly to practicality,

and partly to laziness.

A separate issue is the disdain for the Gospels inculcated by vpw, which penetrated deep into

the twi mentality, and has affected all the twi survivors and their teachings,

to greater or lesser degrees.

(Some have made concerted efforts to overcome that, many have not.)

So, those are reasons.

They may not all be GOOD reasons, but there you go.

What a great heart.

:)

Oh, the part addressed to Mark was really nice and heartfelt.

The part where he blew us off-that showed his heart as well,

but not in a manner I'd call "great"....

Sounds to me like your saying that after you have a lengthy letter posted here, you announce that you are not willing to dialogue with us on this forum...just pontificate and leave? ...and because we use cutsie names? I'm sure that many here would be willing to tell you who they are if you would be willing to have open dialogue with us...

The GreaseSpot Cafe is a community...you know many of us. We are not lacking in love nor in courage. Many here go by their real names...others do not. God knows all of us...

Caught that too, did you?

But labelling us provides the excuse to skip the dialogue,

and just release letters that just happen to appear here inexplicably...

Dear Groucho,

John Lynn didn't post it on GS, Jeff USAF did, so why would we even expect John L. to reply through this forum? And why would you say he was pontificating if he isn't even the one to post?

I'm glad to see him write something and state a position.

I agree with Galen, nice to see his heart.

Joe

I addressed this above, and I hope you caught it....

I AM glad he said something-that I agree with...

OMG..

Turned it into a daggone advertisement. Can't say I didn't see it coming.

Yeah, "have real questions, read my book".

How sad.

I think the organization is cooked..

He said "Prophecy is prophecy, and to criticize “personal prophecy” as unbiblical, in and of itself, is contrary to Scripture. We have a book on Prophecy that deals with this subject in depth from the Word, which you can get from www.stfonline.org."

BS. To criticize personal prophesy is unbiblical and if I want to know why -- buy a book.

F -off

Well, JAL's ending paragraphs don't sound too loving to me, even though he says he loves me. He presumes to know my heart about why I remain anonymous. He says I lack love and courage. Well, he's wrong.

There was a time when he knew my name, and he wasn't loving then either.

I don't need to get close to the "nucleus" or buy any CES/STF books. I've already seen how JAL touches lives. I don't need his kind of blessing.

Intersting, I sent him an email almost a week ago now - and used my name. Haven't heard anything back.

This bore repeating.

Seems when someone took him up on his word here,

his actions have NOT matched his words.

This is a letter (position paper) from John Lynn.

Posted with permission.

Cover letter:

Dear Brethren.

God bless you in the mighty name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I am sending this email, with its attachment, to only a relatively few people at this time, each of whom I In that vein, the reason I remain totally committed to Spirit and Truth Fellowship International is because I consider a committed stakeholder in our unique ministry.

It is going to the Spirit & Truth Fellowship Board of Directors, the STF Staff, and others who have inquired of me, or who I have spoken with, or who I think should now be aware of what has been going on for the past 7 months in STF.

I realize that as you read it, you may want to know if you have my permission to send it on to other people you think should be informed about this matter, and the answer is yes. I trust that you will seek the Lord's guidance about that.

Thank you for your love and prayers.

In his service,

John Lynn

"I don't reply to the GSC."

"Oh, this is information I want to get out publickly, and you should ask God before releasing it in

any format."

I detect a distinct "wink-wink" in that.

Either JAL wrote this with the express purpose of seeing it appear here, or he didn't.

A) If JAL wrote this with the express purpose of seeing it appear here, he did so with the little

disclaimers at the beginning and the end saying "I don't communicate with people on the

GSC" while writing a response he expected to be communicated with the people on the GSC.

This doesn't strike me as particularly HONEST and without ARTIFICE.

If I was paying money to CES/STFI, I'd question why leadership would feel the need to

be intentionally less than honest in their dealings with me or anyone else.

Does God sanction dishonest dealings with the family? How about when they're not in

OUR ORGANIZATION-does it become sanctioned then?

B) If JAL did NOT write this knowing that it would appear in THE single biggest avenue of

communication where the CES/STFI people are getting information about the inner workings

of their own group and the sole venue for discussing it

(and personally, I think both of THOSE are important points in and of themselves)

then he demonstrated a lack of understanding that I think makes him unsuited to leading

a group in anything more detailed than a song.

"Oh, I had no idea it would end up at the GSC when I wrote it."

Give me a break. I find it hardly credible he's that obtuse.

(Others may disagree with me, and simply think he was HONEST, but LACK VISION.)

==================

A brief p.s. to critics of Spirit & Truth Fellowship:

Given the way that documents such as this somehow wind up on the Internet, let me say a few things to our detractors who will use this current situation in STF to say “I told you so,” take potshots at us, and magnify our flaws above the good we are doing for people. First, God bless you, I love you. Second, be sure you know enough truth about the issues to make a rational judgment. Third, get close enough to the nucleus of STF leadership to see their hearts before you impugn them. Fourth, take an honest look at what we teach from the Word about whatever subjects are pertinent to this matter, like prophecy. Prophecy is prophecy, and to criticize “personal prophecy” as unbiblical, in and of itself, is contrary to Scripture. We have a book on Prophecy that deals with this subject in depth from the Word, which you can get from www.stfonline.org.

In that vein, the reason I remain totally committed to Spirit and Truth Fellowship International is because I can find no one else with the “package” we have to offer, and I know the true heart with which we present it, as well as the liberating impact it has had on people around the world during the past 20 years. You will have to judge for yourself whether what we teach is sound doctrine, and whether we practice it in love. But you cannot do that from afar. I encourage you to dig into our work, and I exhort you to “stay tuned” and see if the hand of God is on us. Watch and see where He takes this ministry in the days ahead. I do hope that among the millions whose lives we hope to touch, we will be able to bless you, the only you God has.

As to what is flying around cyberspace about me and my personal life, my email is jalces@aol.com and my home phone is 317-849-5707. If you know me and care about me, I’ll be glad to communicate with you. I will not, however, dialogue with anonymous people who lack the love and courage to identify themselves in interacting with me.

And here's the part that's directed directly to us.

But not by name.

Because he's not talking to us.

He's just using a megaphone to carry on a conversation right near us.

Let's look at this a bit.

"A brief p.s. to critics of Spirit & Truth Fellowship:"

Translation: 'This is to the GSC, whose only purpose in here is to attack us with critical statements.'

Or, in other words, 'the GSC has nothing positive to offer in this discussion,

which we've been forced to have largely because of them opening up communication

we were trying to close.'

"Given the way that documents such as this somehow wind up on the Internet, "

Translation: 'I don't write this with the INTENT it ends up on the GSC,

but it might SOMEHOW end up there anyway. SOMEHOW.'

Or, in other words, 'I write this with no plans to see it on the GSC, but I'll address them anyway

in case it "somehow" ends up there.'

Honest? What do you guys think?

"let me say a few things to our detractors who will use this current situation in STF to say “I told you so,” take potshots at us, and magnify our flaws above the good we are doing for people."

Translation: 'Let me make it clear that discussion at the GSC does nothing but magnify our flaws,

and especially take cheap shots at us.'

Or, in other words, 'You guys have nothing to offer here other than complaints.'

"First, God bless you, I love you."

Translation: 'Since saying negative things about you would detract from my image that I'm a

heckuva nice guy, I'll follow up my initial disguised shot at you all by saying something pious.'

It reminds me of a complaint I saw once about a poster on one messageboard.

At the end of lengthy posts talking down to all other Christians, they posted their

signature, "God bless you." People found that hypocritical at the time.

How genuine THIS is, I leave to each reader to decide. Me, I do not think it is 100% false,

but I find the evidence makes accepting this as 100% to be unsupportable.

"Second, be sure you know enough truth about the issues to make a rational judgment."

Translation: 'I'm going to state the obvious-know the truth before making any decisions,

so as to demonstrate I'm a reasonable man. Of course, I hardly wanted anyone to HEAR

the truth on any of this, but that's not important right now.'

Personally, I find the timing of this statement rather convenient. It's a good idea in general,

but at this moment, I see it going somewhere.

"Third, get close enough to the nucleus of STF leadership to see their hearts before you impugn them."

Translation: 'Stop criticizing us as making bad decisions or ungodly decisions or harmful decisions

until you get to know us PERSONALLY over an EXTENDED period of time.'

Meant to quell discussion by the majority of people, it's as sensible as saying we can't ever

discuss Paul the Apostle since none of us know him personally-only by his writings

(and one side-comment from Peter, whom we don't know personally either.)

Knowing "their hearts" on a subject may help explain WHY they make a boneheaded decision,

but is irrelevant to whether or not a decision IS boneheaded, which is one of the main things

we're discussing here.

I also find it ironic that harmful talk of people, called "personal prophecy", was sometimes

given to people who the speaker did NOT know, and that was fine for years, but to say so

is "impugning" the speaker. I might consider there to be an element of hypocrisy present.

" Fourth, take an honest look at what we teach from the Word about whatever subjects are pertinent to this matter, like prophecy. Prophecy is prophecy, and to criticize “personal prophecy” as unbiblical, in and of itself, is contrary to Scripture. We have a book on Prophecy that deals with this subject in depth from the Word, which you can get from www.stfonline.org."

Translation: 'Our doctrine is correct no matter what you say. 'Personal prophecy' has ALWAYS

been correct, and we will continue to defend it as true no matter what.

Our position on 'personal prophecy' is sound doctrine.

Oh, and buy our book.'

I never heard the leadership apologize for Momentus, or admit it was a bad idea or harmful to the

brethren. It was just quietly dropped, and ANY inquiries were stifled with the famous

"talking evil" party line. Now 'personal prophecy' is being defended with fervor.

Leadership seems to find it approaching impossible to admit to the possibility of making

bad decisions as a whole.

Considering what's on the table now, that strikes me as mildly ironic.

"In that vein, the reason I remain totally committed to Spirit and Truth Fellowship International is because I

can find no one else with the “package” we have to offer, and I know the true heart with which we present it, as well as the liberating impact it has had on people around the world during the past 20 years."

Translation: 'Be loyal to the ministry that taught you The Word. If not for us, you'd wander in darkness

without any accurate Word.'

Fine, that's a SLIGHT exaggeration. But it's only a small step from here to there.

Plus, it says that the people who were HARMED over the past 20 years are an acceptable consequence

for defending 'the ministry', since this thing seems to ONLY have positive results on people.

"You will have to judge for yourself whether what we teach is sound doctrine, and whether we practice it in love."

Doesn't this contradict where he JUST DECLARED 'personal prophecy' was sound doctrine?

"But you cannot do that from afar. I encourage you to dig into our work, and I exhort you to “stay tuned” and see if the hand of God is on us. Watch and see where He takes this ministry in the days ahead. I do hope that among the millions whose lives we hope to touch, we will be able to bless you, the only you God has."

Translation: 'You can't judge our doctrine by just reading it and comparing it to Scripture- you will need

to interact with us for months in detail, and buy our stuff, before making any judgements.

Did I forget to mention you're a fabulous human being?'

I'm getting whiplash!

First I was scum for even DISCUSSING error,

then whether or not it's error is up to me,

then I'm a great guy!

"As to what is flying around cyberspace about me and my personal life, my email is jalces@aol.com and my home phone is 317-849-5707."

Translation:'I only dialogue with people in private, so I can control the discussion.'

" If you know me and care about me, I’ll be glad to communicate with you."

Naturally, I remain the final arbiter as to whether or not you know me and care about me, and reserve the

right to refuse private discussion with you entirely.

" I will not, however, dialogue with anonymous people who lack the love and courage to identify themselves in interacting with me."

Translation: 'And those people who use screen-names, they're scum and have nothing to offer.

The only reasons they can maintain anonymity are because they lack

love

and courage.'

Gee, wasn't I a great guy a few sentences ago?

One might think that JAL was exercising the tactic known as

"poisoning the well",

attempting to label a source of information so that its genuine merits would be ignored.

"Knight Rider"?

George

Correct!

That first quote and last long exchange was from the episode

"KITT vs KARR",

when the Knight Industries Two Thousand met his evil predecessor,

the Knight Automated Roving Robot.

The second one included the name of the inventor.

Go, George!

"Remember Zeno and that immovable object thing? We're about to find out that answer."

"Your lives mean nothing to me!"

"What the hell was that?"

"A Pontiac!"

"Whats all this?!....looks like Darth Vader's bathroom!"

"I bet you're tall and dark and handsome."

"I'm definitely dark and handsome.I'm only tall when I'm climbing a steep incline."

""You are about as much fun as a divorce, which is not a bad idea!"

"I want custody of me! "

"I mean, you're a regular - real thing. Not just something out of a nightmare, like you looked last night."

"Nothing has changed since last night."

"Oh, yeah. That's easy for you to say. Wh-Where did you come from, anyway? And how did you get in that building?"

"That edifice was the laboratory... where I was first activated... and where I was also... deactivated."

"Deactivated? You mean somebody turned you off?"

"My creator, Wilton Knight. He brought me into the world and then turned on me."

"Aww. Take it easy. Take it easy. My old man - same way."

"Yeah. You can't count on nobody 'cept me and Tony."

"Interesting. I will enter that information in my databanks. I am indebted to both of you. You have reactivated me. How may I serve you?"

"Serve us? What do you mean, serve us?"

"I have checked my data on basic human desires. Therefore, I understand your needs."

"Come on."

"You wish to eat?"

"Well, yeah."

"You wish to drink?"

"Yeah."

"You wish to reproduce?"

"Yeah."

"Which one first?"

"How about a couple - couple of eggs, sunny side up?"

"I have no eggs. Perhaps you can direct me to a chicken."

"Ah, what are you? A comedian? "

"Remember Zeno and that immovable object thing? We're about to find out that answer."

"Your lives mean nothing to me!"

"What the hell was that?"

"A Pontiac!"

"Whats all this?!....looks like Darth Vader's bathroom!"

"I bet you're tall and dark and handsome."

"I'm definitely dark and handsome."

WW is correct. In fact, my next quote would have been, "Just drink your milk." Hannibal usually drugged BA's milk to get him on the plane.

George

My favourite scene like that was when BA watched them, switched milk with Murdock,

watched Murdock fall asleep, drank Murdock's milk, laughing, then fell asleep as Murdock

got back up....