WordWolf

What I meant was: we have a forum specifically about twi, and some discussions in it are not about twi itself, but about its spinoffs. I'm not asking "should we give them a forum", I"m asking "should we move those discussions to a new forum"? We're already having the discussions.

We also were reminded recently that twi was fond of CONDEMNING something, RENAMING it, then declaring the RENAMED version perfectly acceptable. So, "infant baptisms", bad. "Baby dedications", good.

A web search for any notice of it came up blank. That's no guarantee, but I found plenty of other people's obituary notices and notes of same while looking for his, so I'm suspicious of any claim he's dead until I get something official, or at least substantive.

Would the Greasespot Cafe be better served by adding a forum for organizations, churches, ministries, websites, messageboards, books, tapes, videos and all other media that are ex-twi, or is the current system better than splitting off a new forum besides "Open" and "About the Way" for it?

See? I knew someone who really knew their stuff would happen along soon. Glad you were able to eliminate all the usual suspects. (BTW, might want to download SpywareBlaster at some point. It prevents some malware from downloading. Spybot's immunization-function also helps in that department.) The only thing left in maintenance to do is to run a Disc Verify. You've already done about 95% of what I consider regular maintenance. (The other stuff is largely redundant and meant to hedge my bets.)

It's a shame, too, since I believe Allan has something to offer, and we almost never get to see it. It always plays second-fiddle to his LDS-fixation or his "you can agree with me or be an idiot" approach. I mean, when someone asked both of us to explain our beliefs, I explained mine and supported my position, and he replied with insults. I would have preferred to see what SUBSTANCE he had to offer. He's on the other side of the planet. He may have heard LOTS of things I haven't. I may even like some and want to use them myself. Instead we get the schoolmaster who won't deign to teach his students, and that's a waste of posting.

I'm blanking on it at the moment. (To keep Cynic from feeling left out, however, my brain informs me that his quote may be Moriarity's "cogito ergo sum" speech in "Ship in a Bottle", just before he "leaves the holodeck.")

Well, gee, with an endorsement, how can I not respond? Ok, keep a few things in mind. A) I am NOT a computer expert. If this is actually a configuration or settings problem, one of our REAL techs will need to step in. I'm going to operate under the assumption that it is NOT, since that means I can do something. Even if I'm wrong, none of my advice will actually HURT your pc. B) I'm a big believer in pc security, and a big believer in "open source" and freeware. So, I believe in programs that protect your computer and cost $zero. (It's my favourite price!) Further, my advice never requires expert knowledge to carry out. ---------------- Ok, here we go. My assumption is that your pc has a program on it that you didn't want, which is dialing out. That would have been a "trojan." (Like the Trojan Horse-it's dangerous but looked harmless.) So, we beef up your existing security (for free), and we kick out the offending program-and any of its buddies (for free.) Depending on how badly your pc is infected, you may gain back more memory for deleting them than the security will take, and you may discover a dramatic increase in your pc speed. (Trojans that are running will sap your pc's resources, so getting rid of them means fewer programs running.) First set of questions: I presume you're using Windows. (Most Linux users know more than I do about pcs, and most trojans are designed to afflict Windows anyway.) What version of Windows are you using? (If it's 98 or ME, then you should really, really consider upgrading to XP, if for no other reason but that even bottom-of-the-line new pcs with XP will outperform any home pc that had 98/ME installed.) I presume you're using either 2000 or XP. No matter which, have you gone to the Windows website and installed all the latest updates for your pc? Please note that if you are using XP and have not installed Windows Service Pack 2, then the smartest thing to to is to install Service Pack 2, which will include all the previous updates. Also note that MS has announced they have discontinued offering updates on anything before SP2 for the Home versions. (Which means XP users must update to SP2 to get updates, and non-XP users need to get XP to get updates.) This means no NEW updates will be issued, but even 98's old updates are there if someone still needs them. If you never downloaded SP2, you can download it free like all the other updates from their website, or pay shipping and handling for a CD of Service Pack 2. The CD, IMHO, is a good idea to have around. (Then you can upgrade ANY XP-using pc to Service Pack 2 before it ever connects to the internet.) Keep in mind that-if you haven't upgraded to Service Pack 2 yet and are using XP- that SP2 gave problems to people whose machines were already badly compromised. So, put off INSTALLING SP2 until we've cleared some trash from the system as best we can. In other words, it should be the last step, except for running Updates again AFTER installing it, to get the updates SINCE SP2. We'll come back to it. Unless you're already on SP2, which is good if you are. ============ Ok, some other basic questions: A) What version of Windows (XP, 2000, 98, ME) are you using? (Yes, it's good to know-it affects some of the directions.) B) Do you have a firewall program installed on your pc? If so, which one? If not, ZoneAlarm works just fine, and is $free. If you have none, you've needed one already, and should look up ZoneAlarm's website (ZoneLabs?) and download it and update it IMMEDIATELY. Let me know if that's the case. C) Do you have an antivirus program installed on your pc? If so, which one? If not, AVG Antivirus works just fine, and is $free, and is very kind to novices using it. If you have none, you've needed one already, and should look up AVG's download sites for it, and download and update it IMMEDIATELY, then run it every day until we finish with this. Let me know if that's the case. D) Have you downloaded SpywareBlaster? If not, download it and update it, then enable protection. E) Have you downloaded Spybot:Search and Destroy? If not, download it, update it, then activate its immunization shield. Then run its scanning feature. F) Have you downloaded AdAware? If not, download it, update it, then run its scanning feature. Let me know when you're done with all those, or just can't find one online and need a URL. All of those programs are pretty much self-guiding. That's not everything we can do for free to fix the machine, but it's plenty, and likely to fix the problem you're having right now. We can proceed once all this is done.

Cynic, on the "Name that" threads, we do one at a time, and it's George's turn right now. Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure I know WHO said it, but I'm not remembering the episode at the moment.

It's amazing what you can miss sometimes, in the manner of the famous "not-seeing-the-forest-for-the-trees" sense. I ranted a bit about one of the incidents on this thread that showed how DISPOSABLE vpw viewed the individual members of the way corps. Looking back, there's something interesting. There were 2 incidents listed in this book (and thus, this thread), where program participants had what may have been termed "episodes", some kind of fit or acute psychiatric attack. (Insufficient details were provided to determine specifics.) Now, the FIRST time, it's possible, although IRRESPONSIBLE, that no framework or even tentative plan was put in place for emergencies, as in "what do we do if someone has a heart attack or something". There was no medical staffer on-call in case of emergencies, and no emergency "get-them-to-the-hospital" plan. That there was none the SECOND time it happened, I think, shows how little the individual people mattered. A need was demonstrated the FIRST time, and vpw elected to do nothing about it. In all sensible arrangements, the SECOND time something happened, a better response would be shown-the byproduct of the post-mortem review of what failed the first time, and what was needed the first time. However, in this case, the FIRST incident had the better response. Here's what we have on the first incident. (From Post 4, "Location: South Trustee Office, LCM's first year in the Way Corps." ""Incident when Dr. W didn't know what to do about a WOW who had gone off her rocker. LCM, on seeing how he handled the situation, learned from it that you take help from people that you love and trust. You may not have all the answers yourself. Dr had said 'I don't know what to do, Howard. Tell me what I can do!' Dr later took the girl into his home for a few weeks and got her back to health."" Here's what we have on the second incident. """Dr and LCM always fought for people to stay in the Corps. There was an incident of a guy in the Corps who all of a sudden went "gooney-bird". He started to babble and not make sense. LCM worked hard with the guy to help him but he was incoherent. Dr, when he met him, confronted him by asking- 'Son, how come you're letting your mind get all scrambled?' The guy answered unintelligibly and Dr told him that it would be best for him just to pack his bags and go home. The guy understood that. He left. LCM spent many hours and many long distance phone calls trying to make sure the guy had gotten home from his bus ride home safely. Not being able to verify his location, he was concerned. Dr told him to move on. There's nothing you can do, he'll show up at home soon enough. A week later the guy did show up at home."" Almost the same problem both times, but vpw elects to try to do SOMETHING the first time, and elects to kick out the victim the second time and send him home. Let's look at them again. """Incident when Dr. W didn't know what to do about a WOW who had gone off her rocker. LCM, on seeing how he handled the situation, learned from it that you take help from people that you love and trust. You may not have all the answers yourself. Dr had said 'I don't know what to do, Howard. Tell me what I can do!' Dr later took the girl into his home for a few weeks and got her back to health."" """Dr and LCM always fought for people to stay in the Corps. There was an incident of a guy in the Corps who all of a sudden went "gooney-bird". He started to babble and not make sense. LCM worked hard with the guy to help him but he was incoherent. Dr, when he met him, confronted him by asking- 'Son, how come you're letting your mind get all scrambled?' The guy answered unintelligibly and Dr told him that it would be best for him just to pack his bags and go home. The guy understood that. He left. LCM spent many hours and many long distance phone calls trying to make sure the guy had gotten home from his bus ride home safely. Not being able to verify his location, he was concerned. Dr told him to move on. There's nothing you can do, he'll show up at home soon enough. A week later the guy did show up at home.""" In the first instance, a female wow has some sort of attack. vpw takes her into his own home for a week. In the second instance, a male corpsman has some sort of attack. vpw kicks him out, and shoves him on a bus. The guy turns up at home A WEEK LATER (after almost-certainly getting lost and displaced, since he took A WEEK to get home by bus.) Why the special treatment in the first case, and why the cutting loose in the second case? Is it because the wows were treasured where the corps were disposable? Or was it that vpw didn't care about losing a man, but wanted to keep a female in the program? And why someplace private like HIS HOUSE? Wouldn't someplace more open, thus facilitating medical treatment, make more sense? Or was his intent dismissive of medical care, but prioritizing for taking a sick, temporarily-disabled young woman, and placing her in a place out of sight of most people, where vpw could be alone with her without eyewitnesses? Is anybody else thinking that the poor victim who wandered the country alone for a week while having an acute episode of SOME kind was better off than the woman alone with vpw?

Ha! Got you by SECONDS, George! *checks* Ah, the line was from the end, while the Mariachi band was playing. I've always had trouble placing that line. George, go ahead and take it anyway!

I'll go with "Deja Q", then.

I disagree. I believe pfal was a class AND a scam AND a way to enslave. I believe it was versatile like that. I think some of the things I learned in it were useful- but they needed to be carefully pruned away from "which I have dedicated my life to" and "one for the money, two for the show..." and the "LAW of believing" and making it the means to a DIFFERENT end, and so on. Add a little arsenic to a fine meal, and you can poison a whole crowd at once.

Was that "Q WHO"?

I ran Dr Web's antivirus link checker on the links. (I keep it around for just such occasions. :D ) They came up clean. (Those of you who use Firefox can download this handy little Extension for yourselves.)

I ran Dr Web's antivirus link checker on each link. They came up clean. Although I didnt check the link to another page on this forum, because DUH. So, should be safe to click.

You meant "the Nth Degree", which IS the correct answer. Barclay's brain gets a super-upgrade, and he gets confidence and an effective personality as a side-effect. Before that, he's unable to perform Cyrano confidently, even with full costume. Afterwards, he's 'in character' with no need of costume. Thus, the lines from the play about the moon. After he takes over the ship, they begin working on a bypass to the engines so they can get to a starbase, while the ship's counselor tries to talk him out of his plan, and thus out of being plugged into the ship. When she fails, she turns back and says "The Captain will do everything within his power to stop you," which not only won't convince him to step out, not only will convince him she was insincere when talking earlier, but was as good as sounding an alert that they were working on something- which, of course, means Barclay stopsm Geordi's bypass. All from one line. Also, he stays up all night debating the Grand Unification Theory with a holographic program of Albert Einstein-and is getting the better of him in discussion! It was the German Einstein who said "Gruss gott!" ========= pawnbroker's turn!

Sadly, no. Maybe if you figure out who that exchange was between, you'll have the episode. There's a hint if you read it carefully.

"The moon. Yes, that will be my home. My paradise. I shall find there, all the souls I love -- Socrates, Galileo..." "The Captain will do everything in his power to stop you." "G sub I J of t as t approaches infinity..." "That's G of t over G-naught." "So it is, so it is." "I still don't see how you can incorporate the quantum principle into general relativity without adjusting the cosmological constant a lot more than you're doing here." "If we increase the value as you suggest, we must face the possibility of twenty-six dimensions, instead of ten!" "I'm not sure if I'm ready for that." "I certainly am not." "But if this semiset was curved into the subatomic, the infinities might cancel each other out." "Gruss Gott. They just might."

Thing is, with both "Andromeda" and "Earth:the Final Conflict" (I seem to have a psychological blind-spot on recalling these 2), I followed a simple logic. Gene Roddenberry, the Great Bird of the Galaxy, was nearly worshipped among some Trekkies. If he had a competent SF concept to release, it would have an automatic audience. (Well, it would for sure once ST:TNG was proven, and points thereafter.) So, if Roddenberry had ideas for shows, and never followed up on them, to me, that says he wasn't confident they were worth airing. And if the writer is not confident they are worth airing, then I certainly am not confident they are worth WATCHING.

When I dealt with the peons, the "Joe Believers", many times, I was the recipient of, or the witness to, acts of kindness done just to bless members of "the family." 2 quick examples: As a brokeass kid, I raised the money for "the class", and asked to borrow someone's Bible. When I got to Session 1, someone gave me a brand-new Bible. (A really nice one with large print.) Another person I know balked at the class since they were hesitant about raising the $40 (someone else broke.) Someone who had just met them then offered to pay the $40 for them, no strings attached, no nothing. (Looking back, I'm fully confident there were no strings attached.) Many of us loved each other and did things-little things or big things- to bless each other, because we wanted to. I also met total strangers, both on staff, or at the ROA, or returning from the WOW field, and we were usually quite kind to each other and offered each other a hand-up. Of course, that didn't speak for EVERYONE. Some people who were leaders locally, or trained leaders from hq, or training IN hq, should have had a funny walk from having to accomodate the stick up their keister. ========== Looking back, it's interesting. Although it always seemed (& felt) like there were NO CONDITIONS on anything we did for each other, it's probable that it was TIERED- that we were that good to people in the group or entering the group, but if you weren't interested, then you weren't treated quite as nice. It has been said that "the best way to have friends is to be one, and the true test of a friend lies in our treatment of people from whom we can expect no favours in return." I think there's something to that. On the one hand, it was often seen as more "watching each other's backs and watching out for family." On the other hand, how easy it was to turn a deaf ear and a blind eye to the problems and sufferings of those not IN the group? Many church organizations "with inferior doctrine" have NO DIFFICULTY in reaching out to help those from whom they can expect no favours in return.

I asked about the thing in 'my' "Secret Initiation?" thread. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...ic=8433&hl= The conclusion of that PARTICULAR thread about that PARTICULAR ceremony was, for the most part, that it was a stupid prank on the level of "Animal House" "mild" hazing, some "Repeat after me, 'I, state your name...'" stuff. Although some good questions were raised about how elaborate the preparations were. Of course, some practical jokes take a lot of prep-time...

Well, it would let people know in advance who they could NOT appeal to if there's a problem further down the line, and help reduce misunderstandings. It could be worse-they could need a "hold harmless" clause and contract.

"The moon. Yes, that will be my home. My paradise. I shall find there, all the souls I love -- Socrates, Galileo..." "The Captain will do everything in his power to stop you."

Proverbs 30:18-19.(KJV) "18There be three things which are too wonderful for me, yea, four which I know not: 19The way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent upon a rock; the way of a ship in the midst of the sea; and the way of a man with a maid." Colour charts cost more. Spending a penny more on people WOULD have killed vpw. When it came to expenditures for others, he could pinch a penny until it howled for mercy, and left fingerprint indentations on every nickel. There's more than 1 type of Christian, and more than 1 type of learning. Plus, there's more than 1 type of LESSON. Lectures and classrooms are great for some types, and dismal for other types. That's one reason a lot of people learn computers faster if they're allowed to to go through a "what does this button do" phase.