WordWolf

Basing ANY part of your argument on ANY utterance of Dave McPherson largely WEAKENS and TAINTS your argument. Dave has a personal axe to grind against dispensationalism and the Rapture doctrine, and credits them to various misfortunes in the life of his father. Dave has shown an eagerness to make any kind of claim to undercut them-whether or not there is even the slimmest evidence to justify such a claim. Here's the text of her vison. (That's VISION, SINGULAR.) http://www.bibleprophesy.org/vision.htm The upshot of it-and tell me if you see it differently- is that Mc Donald was expecting the church to live thru the tribulation (she was NOT a pre-tribulationist as Dave invented), and that she was scared the church was not READY. At most, she was a "partial rapturist". You read it. Me and Dave have now made opposing claims. Read it for yourself and see how you translate it.

I can name the artist, but I'll wait and see if someone can produce the title before my subconscious kicks it up. ===== Oh, and yes, it was "Shattered", by the Stones. If they performed it at 1/2 time, that was just plain funny.

"Love and hope and sex and dreams are still surviving on the street" "I can't give it away on 7th Avenue!"

Lord of War.

*reads the link* Typical Jack Chick. I notice that this relies almost entirely on Hislop's "the Two Babylons." I am aware that Woodrow repudiated Hislop's "the Two Babylons" in his book "the Babylon Connection?" after initially supporting it in "Babylon Mystery Religion." So, it's easy to find a book that makes a stronger case than Hislop, who threw claims around and didn't support them. (Example from the tract: "IHS stands for Isis, Horus and Seb, the Egyptian Trinity." This is without substantiation, since there's no connection between Geb/Qeb (who spelled it "Seb"?) and Isis OR Horus. If you wanted to go for an Egyptian syncretization with Christianity, you'd connect Isis and Osiris to things, but they don't spell "IHS".) Priests are supposed to be "little Jesuses"? I must have been out sick that day... Oh, and as for "the pope not caring about my soul"... I don't know much about Benedict, but John Paul II, I believe he VERY MUCH was concerned about the souls of all. In previous centuries, I could easily see Jack Chick easily leading the "burn her!" "build a bridge out of her!" mobs with torches.

"Did God truly teach VP The Word like it hadn't been known since the 1st Century?" As I keep pointing out, there's at least 2 (or 3) problems with this single claim. A) EVERYTHING vpw taught was already KNOWN before the supposed 1942 promise. Bullinger's work was in circulation, Leonard was teaching. Others-like Clarence Larkin-released books and charts resembling the classes. Everything vpw taught was all in circulation before he taught it. B) vpw learned it FROM other Christians-their books and classes. It was not a study-session with God-it was a photocopy session with his xerox machine. C) vpw, the homiletics student, remained deficient in his understanding of church history and other matters until his death. As such, he was unaware that if a god actually DID make such a promise, it was a poorly-informed god. As it was known in the First Century, The Word was the Old Testament, plus one or 2 circulating books of the new. THEY didn't have copy machines. They had a DEcentralized group that was big on power and very short on academic study. The money circulated freely to where needs were, and widows and orphans were taken care of. Compare that to vpw. ALL academic study. ANEMIC miracles (compared to them.) Everything centralized. Widows and orphans? "You'll always have the poor-now send me your money." So, the snow job is irrelevant to how bogus this promise was. Although, if there WAS a promise, it was NOT from the God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ. Now, if he was so deficient as a Christian that he spent his life unable to distinguish between THOSE 2 voices, then why should I trust him on ANYTHING?

Leonard never made a claim of a "miraculous" event. This, however, is from Leonard's foreword to his book "Gifts of the Spirit"... "One day God spoke to me. 'If thou wilt wait patiently before me, I will give thee the revelation concerning that which is written in My Word touching these things; the revelation my people need to bring them out of their chaos and confusion.' I believed God. For months I waited before His presence in solitude. During those wonderful days, He revealed the truth to me concerning the gifts of the Spirit. As He did, these things were proven by acting upon the knowledge thus received, and by examining the results in light of His Word."

*wild guess* "Swordfish"?

"I can't give it away on 7th Avenue!"

Correct. You DID get that fair and square-by remembering- and not by looking it up online, right? I figured, since the sequel was in theaters, this might be fresh for a number of people.

"It is the oldest story in the book; he desires the one thing he cannot have."

Good point. *checks* The link SHOULD have been http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=4115

Good point. Is there a fundamental difference between the showoff on the motorcycle, and the preacher claiming God showed him secrets hidden for 19 centuries? Were both just ways of saying "Everyone-look at me! I'm special! Listen to me-I have special answers!" His job-which he accepted-was to pastor his congregation. Instead, he applied a heavy-handed approach, and kept looking for ways to get people to listen to him, and looked for bigger audiences. Where does "shedding light" come in, and what does it mean in this context? I like flashlights. They shed light. I'm sure that's not what you mean..

Sharp fellow. As to the handful of teens at Stuyvesant, I might go so far as to claim it was overcompensation for being #3 in schools behind Bronx HS of Science and Brooklyn HS of Technology, but I don't think that's it. *snicker* I think it's just a handful of kids that have no idea what they want, and no idea what they're doing, and have insufficient boundaries imposed by their parents (they can find an empty apt regularly?), and they're trying out what they're thinking of as pleasure without consequence... I figure sooner or later, thru hurt feelings, actual thinking or discovering they have a disease, they'll realize there ARE consequences. Hey-if the drugs-and-free-sex generation that attended Woodstock grew up to be the yuppies of the 80s, I think a handful of kids with no rules won't wreck Western civilization.

Harmonica.... "In fact-I don't mean ANY of this-still my confession draws you near...." "the Hook", by Blues Traveller. Only song I know offhand that mentions Anne Boleyn. :) I THINK that's it.

We can't read his mind-but we can review his actions. Here's what we know-from twi SOURCES. He started out as a kid on a farm who avoided farmwork. Rather than inherit the farm, he was convinced he'd do better with a college education. Initially, he had not decided on the ministry-he considered it one option among SEVERAL, like business and so on. Until he met R1nker, he did not BELIEVE the Bible was God's Word. By that time, he had completed his undergraduate work and gotten a Bachelor's degree, AND had been preaching for a year. When faced with many areas to study-Bible languages, Bible history, church history-he selected "homiletics", or "preaching", which, compared to everything else, is an incredibly "soft option". He picked the course with the least work. Only a few months into a "lifetime serving God", he was frustrated and repeatedly considered giving up. All of this is "public record." Adding that the neighbors all thought he was a showoff, a bully, and was a lousy choice for a minister, and adding that his personality didn't improve thru the entire decade of the 1940s (supposedly following a promise of God), I think the completed picture supports strongly that he was not "called" to the ministry except by ambition.

Can we get another quote from this song?

Well, he might mean "all churches are evil", OR he might mean "By defining your needs/wants, you can better determine which churches are best qualified to fill them." I would ask "what are you looking for?" If it's for "caring Christians", you'll find them in better supply than twi has all over the place. If it's for "manifestations of the spirit", you'll want something charismatic or Pentecostal. If it's for "doctrine I agree with," you'll want one of the splinter groups. That's only a FEW examples.

I agree it's probably not the CACHE that's doing this, and we can help you work it out. However, to answer your question, if you're using Internet Explorer, no. If you're using Firefox, you can clear the cache as follows: Tools-> Options -> Privacy -> Cache -> OK. You can clear cookies and history at the same time as the cache. I would answer Bluzeman's question. I would also tell us the answers to these common questions: ========= What is your operating system? (Windows 98, ME, 2000, XP?) What firewall do you use? What antivirus do you use?

John 16:7. "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you." So, seated at the right hand of The Father, check. Ever our advocate with The Father, check. Comforter was sent here, check. Unless someone's equating the Comforter here with the Lord THERE, then, no, he's not here in any OTHER sense. Inasmuch as Jesus AND the Comforter make known God, then one might say something like that. Kinda.

They have been indoctrinated that ALL the Christians outside the organization are SCUM. They think that their doctrines are the be-all and end-all of Christianity, and anyone who disagrees has "forsaken the truth", even though God answers their prayers and they're a LOT more joyful and prosperous than twi'ers. twi tries to keep them from ANY honest interaction and evaluation of outside Christians, because twi innies are among the most miserable Christians alive today. In the US, most Christians are a LOT happier.

I think this is how it worked in his little pea-brain. He imagined people would FLOCK to his wap class. He imagined that if followers were talking to white-collar workers, middle management and higher, people in the upper middle class, that those people would somehow be added, as if they were brushed with duct tape or something and dragged along. So, people with more money would magically be added to the group, and they would pay 10/15/20% of their income, which-since they had larger salaries, meant 'mo money, 'mo money, 'mo money to twi. And, yes, it completely failed, partly because twi had nothing these people WANTED. Being in twi would present a dramatic step DOWN for these people. The are used to MAKING THEIR OWN DECISIONS and THINKING FOR THEMSELVES. Giving up 1/5 of their income for the "privilege" of hearing lukewarm, average (or worse) teachings on a phone hookup, then RETAUGHT on the tape, then RE-RETAUGHT in the magazine, then RE-RE-RETAUGHT live during the week? Where do I sign up? :unsure:

It bore repeating.

Contrast that to Solomon, say, who got to ask ANYTHING from God, and asked for WISDOM-so he could rule God's people wisely. (Otherwise, he would still have ruled them...) So, vpw wanted EVERYONE TO LISTEN TO HIM. THAT's why he wanted answers. NOT so that he could help people-we know he was plenty loud when he KNEW he had no answers- but so EVERYONE WOULD LISTEN TO HIM, and his congregation would GROW. You know, the people giving him MONEY. =========== No, I don't think the incident happened, but even his construction of it is very telling. Further, he's never seen HEAVY SNOW before. He described a heavy blizzard white-out as looking "BLACK". No, it all looks "WHITE"-it is a "WHITEOUT" condition. As in "Oscar, is there a blizzard outside?" *looks* "I can't tell-it's all white!" One of these days, I'll sit down and compile all the different accounts he's "officially" given of this supposed incident that still completely failed to change his life, except in how HE describes his life. ========== Finally, my favourite... Mrs W leaves out something very interesting when she discusses this incident. "never told anyone" "kept to himself" She didn't say "EXCEPT ME". If such a thing REALLY HAD HAPPENED, wouldn't the FIRST words out of his mouth, upon encountering his wife again, be "I've GOT to tell you what happened today..." HOWEVER, SHE didn't hear this until the early 1970s, nearly 30 years after it supposedly happened. (I get that date because she also said he told it first to the corps, and they didnt begin until 1969 with the Zero Corps. Therefore, he told-at earliest-the FIRST Corps, 1970 or later.)

Well, it DIDN'T. He SAID it was the same program. To claim it's the same program is as accurate as claiming his Kindergarten was the same as his Doctorate program. Based on WHAT? He JUST started READING the Bible!Must have been all "music" and homiletics. They provided the music, he provided the homiletics. Before this, radio had Christian music, and had homiletics, and had BOTH. (Fuller, for one.) NOTHING was original in this, except adding vpw's name. Lie. TRUTH. Must be harsh for the Sunday morning services of the past year- he wasn't going to the Word for 2-3 new teachings a week. He must have been getting material outside the Word- that wasn't "NEW"-meaning he got them from somewhere ELSE and taught them. And, of course, the only people he could GET was young people,and, having no background, they worked for FREE for experience, and he was able to pad his OWN resume and add the show. One young guy, four young women. Hmmm........