WordWolf

Ok, the White Book's Preface, pages ix to xi, which is the ENTIRE preface.) ======== "When I was serving my first congregation, a Korean missionary asked me, 'Why don't you search for the greatest of all things in life which would teach Christian believers the HOW of a really victorious life?' This challenge was the beginning of a search which led me through many, many hours of examining different English translations, the various critical Greek texts, and Aramaic 'originals', looking for the source of the power which was manifested in the early Church. Finally I realized that the experience referred to as 'receiving the holy spirit' in the Scriptures WAS and IS actually available to every born-again believer today. I believed to receive the gift of holy spirit and I, too, manifested. Ever since receiving into manifestation the holy spirit, I have had the desire to put in written form the longings and fears that were mine regarding the receiving thereof. I believe that sharing my quest with the believers who are today seeking to be endued with power from on high may be instrumental in leading them to the answer of their hearts' desires. I knew from the Bible that what God sent at Pentecost was still available. It had to be, for God does not change. I knew that the receiving of the power from on high on the day of Pentecost had meant increased ability for the apostles and disciples years ago, and that I needed and wanted the same blessing. I knew that if the Church ever needed the holy spirit in manifestation it needed it now. Throughout my academic training in a college, a university, four seminaries, from the commentaries I studied, and from my years of questing and research among the various religious groups claiming adherence to the holy spirit's availability, there appeared many things contradictory to the accuracy of the recorded Word of God. I knew their teachings were sincere, but sincerity is no guarantee for truth. The Word of God is truth. I prayed that I might put aside all that I had heard and thought out myself, and I started anew with the Bible as my handbook as well as my textbook. I did not want to omit, deny, or change any passage for, the Word of God being the will of God, the Scripture must fit like a hand in a glove. If you are a Christian believer, I sincerely encourage you to study this book. Do not allow your past teachings or feelings to discourage you from going on to receive God's best. If you need power and ability to face up to the snares of this live, you may find your answer while reading this book. It is my prayer that you may be edified, exhorted, and comforted. For those searching the Scriptures, desiring to know the reasons why, how, what or where, I suggest you do a careful study of the introductions as well as the appendices in this volume. For those who simply desire to receive, read chapters 1 though 5 and enjoy God's great presence and power. "II Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." To his helpers and colleagues every writer owes a profound debt. This seventh edition has been read and studies carefully by men and women of Biblical and spiritual ability. To all of these I am most grateful." ========= End of Preface.

What ELSE did the Orange Book say on the subject? [pg-119-120.] ===== "For years I did nothing but read around the Word of God. I used to read two or three theological works weekly for month after month and year after year. I knew what Professor so-and-so said, what Dr so-and-so and the Right Reverend so-and-so said, but I could not quote you The Word. I had not read it. One day I finally became so disgusted and tired of reading around The Word that I hauled over 3000 volumes of theological works to the city dump. I decided to quit reading around The Word. Consequently, I have spent years studying The Word- its integrity, its meaning, its words. Why do we study? Because God expects us as workmen to know what His Word says." ============= As a sidenote, if he read FOUR books a week (one more than he claimed), every week, every year, it would take 15 years to make it thru 3000 volumes without rereading any. (4 books times 52 weeks is 208 books a year. 15 years at that pace should do it.) That's while he was completing his education, working, travelling to India, and so on. That's leaving aside the issue of where one keeps 3000 books...

When looking at vpw's acknowledgements and bibliographies, we can see who he gives credit to, and who he doesn't. For those who've missed previous discussions, it might be worth going over his official statements and what they mean in plain English. ========== Ok, the Orange Book. There IS NO bibliography to this book. In case you're wondering, that would be one reason a donated book would be refused for a college library. The dedication is to his daughter. Remembering that this book is part Bullinger, part Leonard, and part Norman Vincent Peale/ positive thinking, we have seen no mention of any of them in the book. Even the "about the author" leaves out all 3 names. What DOES the introduction say? Here it is in its entirety. === "Introduction: the Abundant Life. Jesus' proclamation as recorded in John 10:10 is the foundational Scripture for this book. ...I am come that they [believers] might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. This verse literally changed my life. My wife and I began in the Christian ministry, plodding ahead with the things of God, but somehow we lacked an abundant life. Then one time I was especially alerted when I read from the Word of God that Jesus said He had come to give us life more abundant. I was startled into awareness. As I looked about me at communities where I had served and among the ministers with whom I had worked, the abundant life was frequently not evident. In contrast to these Christian people, I could see that the secular world of non-Christians were manifesting a more abundant life than were members of the Church. Thus I earnestly began to pursue the question: 'If Jesus Christ came that men and women might have a MORE ABUNDANT LIFE, then why is it that the Christian believers do not manifest even an ABUNDANT LIFE?' I believe most people would be thankful if they ever lived an abundant life; but The Word says Jesus Christ came that we might have life not just abundant, but more abundant. If His Word is not reliable here in John 10:10, how can we trust it anywhere else? But, on the other hand, if Jesus told the truth, if He meant what He said and said what He meant in this declaration, then surely there must be keys, signposts, to guide us to the understanding and the receiving of this life which is more than abundant. This book, POWER FOR ABUNDANT LIVING, is one way of showing interested people the abundany life which Jesus Christ lived and which He came to make available to believers as it is revealed in the Word of God. This is a book containing Biblical keys. The contents herein do not teach the Scriptures from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21; rather, it is designed to set before the reader the basic keys in the Word of God so that Genesis to Revelation will unfold and so that the abundant life which Jesus Christ came to make available will become evident to those who want to appropriate God's abundance to their lives. " =========== That is the ENTIRE introduction. There is no other prefix, appendix, etc to the book.

Merry Christmas! Happy ChristmaHanuKwanzaakah! Happy Festivus! Jesus-y Jesusmas! (That should cover most of the posters. Oh, happy Winter Solstice.)

I vote for "none of the above". I say it was indicative of his mindset-it showed what he thought of David's SIN. It was what he and his sick mind did LATER with other comments and verses that REALLY did more damage. ANY document can be twisted if you distort it enough. You completely missed the point there. Outside of twi, NOBODY uses that verse as justification. IN twi, quite a few DID. Was that in SPITE of what vpw said and did, or BECAUSE of what he did? I'll quote vpw himself on this one. Back in the 1960s, vpw was chatting with someone and ASKED them to describe what orgies were like. (He OPENED the subject.) When they-reluctantly-described it, thankful to have been DELIVERED from it, vpw commented. vpw: "You know that's all available. God put it in I Corinthians 7:1 when He said 'It is good for a man not to touch a woman.' If it wasn't available to have sex outside the marriage, God would have said 'best' instead of 'good'." The reply: "I just thank God that He pulled our souls out of that pit of debauchery." The mind-frame of a man who would pervert Scripture and claim I Corinthians 7:1 permits orgies is the same one who would claim that "TECHNICALLY all the women in the kingdom belonged to the king." Later, people exposed to his teachings claimed that the only harm in guilt is the guilty feeling, and we can sin incredibly so long as we don't feel guilty. Did this have NOTHING to do with the mindset of their teacher? Did he really NEVER pass along to ANY of them this concept? We know he did not teach it to EVERYONE. We've heard he's been overheard passing similar things to lcm and others...

Well, the key was, as later groups saw more and more overtly, it's NOT the BIBLE, but the teachings of hq and leaders which supposedly REFLECT the Bible. The idea of you reading it yourself was-OFFICIALLY-encouraged, but in PRACTICE, DIScouraged. Rozilla has said that reading your BIBLE isn't necessary if you're reading their magazine and getting their tapes. Ever see a corps grad or BC or higher wince at the idea of people doing their OWN research and sharing it? I, myself, was told that had been a PROBLEM and was not seen as a good idea. (Which I translated as "don't let me know you're actually reading it/teaching it" since I was going to carry on regardless.) I was recommended instead to just go over the collaterals. So, when faced with a discrepancy between the Bible and the leadership, you were expected to follow leadership, which led to the claim that "God will cover"- follow leadership even off the Word, and everything will be fine ANYWAY.

Please cite the exact verse that entitled a king-under the Mosaic Law- to "all the women in the kingdom", including-since this was the SPECIFIC example being explained- women who were already married. If "technically" (as vpw said) this was true, then "technically" Nathan would have had NO grounds to confront David. As it was, he did-David violated some of the 10 Commandments here. "Thou shalt not commit adultery." "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife..." I can get the exact verses for that if you need them.

Congratulations! Best wishes on the next steps of your journey! Feel free to drop in and say hello at some point. Later, when you're up to it.

You cannot put new wine in old skins. I got that one from Jesus. The ORGANIZATION certainly CAN die. It's a bunch of names and slogans, some buildings, some books and programs. Christians managed just fine BEFORE them, and WITHOUT them. They'll survive long AFTER them, too.

Bingo. I didn't even get to my favourite quotes, either... :) Your turn.

Is that the Dreidel Song?

(new movie) "Those are for sinners. You should be smoking these. New Testament cigarettes."

The title is "Christmas Wrapping" (Or "Rapping"), by the Waitresses, but yeah, that's close enough. Your turn.

Oh, that's easy! They taught BOTH at DIFFERENT TIMES! That way, an innocent hears the SECOND one, and says "they never taught women were to prostitute themselves to the mog" and hardcore apologists could say "Those of you who heard this and still thought they taught the other thing are lying or mistaken. How COULD they teach ONE thing and the OPPOSITE?" Worked pretty effectively, too. Some people are a decade out or more and still saying it.

*sets up the aluminum pole* I think we should go to the Feats of Strength, since we specialize in the Airing of Greivances already....

" 'Bah, humbug!' No, that's too strong 'Cause it is my favourite holiday But all this year's been a busy blur Don't think I have the energy." "Now the calendar's just one page And, of course, I am excited Tonight's the night, but I've set my mind Not to do too much about it. Merry Christmas! Merry Christmas! But I think I'll miss this one this year."

"Sabrina". If memory serves, that was Harrison Ford and Greg Kinnear's characters sparring.

"Now the calendar's just one page And, of course, I am excited Tonight's the night, but I've set my mind Not to do too much about it."

That's "Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer". :) I heard they made a cartoon about that. That's just wrong....

I've heard she's doing quite well for herself, thank you. And appreciates the kind thoughts.

A lot of people don't know what's important about "The Integrity of your word". One answer is here: http://www.greasespotcafe.com/editorial/pl...m-wierwille.htm

I feel a discussion of plagiarism of pfal is incomplete without this thread.....

There are some things we know for a fact. We DO know that there were several people who took BG Leonard's CTC class the FIRST time when vpw took it the SECOND time. We know that THREE MONTHS LATER, vpw taught what he told the new students was "his" "pfal" class which was 100% composed of Leonard's CTC class. The people who attended the CTC class HAD to know it was EXACTLY the same class they had just attended, being taught now. They HAD to know it was wrong for him to tell them it was "his" class. They HAD to know it was wrong for him to omit ALL references to Leonard and the REAL class. They didn't stop him. ===== That much, we KNOW. WHY did they not stop him? Was it fear? Greed? Pride? We can only speculate. If I were to speculate, I would say it was MISPLACED LOYALTY. They felt that, somehow, he was EXEMPT from the rules of Christian conduct, exempt from the laws of the US. They felt that he was ABOVE the law, that he was too important for the law to apply to him, that the stakes were high enough to justify criminal actions if he said so. ======== Further speculation- WHY would they have such misplaced loyalty to him? I would speculate that he used the SAME techniques THEN that he used LATER on a larger scale. vpw pretended that all the content of pfal, version 1.0 was his, when it was entirely Leonard's. Before THIS, vpw had encountered JE Stiles, who spent a few HOURS with him, preparing vpw to speak in tongues, and directing him through it. Stiles did a GREAT job. vpw's description, 20 years LATER, was very detailed and contained all the same elements vpw used later in sessions 10-12 of pfal. Stiles taught this no-strings-attached, then left. vpw's style was to attach this to pfal, thus charging money for it AND connecting pfal with it, and thus himself, whom HE called THE Teacher. Between the taped class and the CTC class, people gave him loyalty. Based on his techniques, and based on what we know of his character, and-based on the fact that he could recite the details of the Stiles incident in GREAT detail later- I'd say that he went thru this with each of THEM, and told EACH of them that this was from HIM, and not a transliteration of what he was told by STILES. I don't have PROOF-neither eyewitnesses nor a confession. However, it is a theory that does fit the facts AND his established behaviour. That's the best I can do short of one or the other.

Well, this was hardly a public, "official" statement. vpw carefully chose who he said this to. A number of the top people heard him, a smaller number was complicit in some degree, even fewer did it. Of course that "few people" was FAR too many. Rozilla herself was one of the people "complicit" in that she helped vpw get ahold of the women. How vpw acted on this HIMSELF was varied. The most basic way he did this was on-grounds. He had a home, he had an office, and he had a camper "office" set up for sleeping. He had arranged a place for sleeping when his house was RIGHT THERE. (AND he could have driven one of the golf carts around if he thought it was too far, and he considered one of the carts "MY STUFF.") vpw had all corps applicants submit an autobiographical (life-story) report called "from birth to the corps." Many people NOW think that he read these reports and singled out reports of women who had suffered sexual abuse in the past. They think this because it is known that previous sexual victims are often easier for other sexual predators to victimize later. They also think this because the results WERE that the women who reported this in their reports WERE consistently primary targets for his sexual predation. So, women were told they were on-grounds to be their best for God, and this man had a special connection to God (God spoke to him and gave him imaginary snow-twice and so on), and thus was a trustworthy Christian and NOT a sexual predator. Then, a number of "odd coincidences" would happen. A woman would be singled out coincidentally, and be called into vpw's camper. One of a number of things would happen then, but the ultimate goal was for vpw to rape them. A number showed reluctance or ran out. So, he refined his technique. He started serving drugged drinks to women, and they started passing out alone with him in the room, and waking up with that disgusting man doing disgusting things. There were other scenarios, but that was the MOST COMMON. When he was on the road, it was different. ======== Now then, he also had "cleanup crews." Some people existed on staff- or as Region or Limb leaders or their wives- who would look out for his victims, and stop them from talking. Those who seemed ready to talk despite that were kicked out of twi IMMEDIATELY-including off-grounds if they were ON grounds- and IMMEDIATELY her reputation was savaged. Everyone was told they were "possessed" and no one was to ever contact her or communicate with her in any way. That having been said, despite victims having come forth, and some people having witnessed the "cleanup crew" in operation in progress, there are STILL some people who will claim it's all a lie. Of course, this, in and of itself, does not affect his doctrine. HOWEVER, given his record of self-serving doctrine-- like "all the women in the kingdom belong to the king", "no condemnation", teaching AGAINST the tithe when he was in a denomination but teaching FOR the tithe when the money was coming to him, it DOES mean that each doctrine SHOULD be examined for self-interest. Further, the premeditated nature of what he did (he had to plan a lot to arrange it) indicates he lacks the proper character to serve in ANY capacity among Christians OR of trust of any kind. THAT doesn't affect his doctrine- but I don't respect conmen and rapists, and I don't heed their doctrine. I can't trust him when he opens his mouth. Sometimes he MIGHT speak truth, but I'd rather get truth from a RELIABLE source.

Hello, powerfilled and marypoppins. Since someone brought it up (and you missed it), here's a direct link to a thread that the staff felt was important enough to make into a "sticky"/"pinned" topic. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=7913 As you may know, when first encountering internet messageboards, it is a very good idea to read the "sticky"/"pinned" topics before ever making your first post. Those are marked as important enough to read FIRST.