WordWolf

1975-1976. ======= "Dr presents LCM with a used Honda 350 to scoot around the campus on. Dr took LCM out that evening to properly instruct him on how to use a motorbike safely." "Discussions with Dr regarding Corps with low levels of sponsorship. Dr allowed LCM to sit with him for a week as he (Dr) talked with each corps person in that predicament. Dr came up with suggestions to help people and challenged them to figure out things themselves. He told the corps that smoked that they needed to quit if they wanted to stay. The money they saved could go towards their sponsorship. Dr required committment from people. Then he helped them with their believing. He made smoking agreements with a number of people." "Later on that year, one of the people came to LCM to confess that they had breached the no-smoking agreement. That spurred LCM to ask each one of the people involved if they had kept the committment. Had they, at any time since the agreement, had a cigarette. 15 of them said that they had smoked." "After some careful deliberation, LCM dismissed the 15 from the Corps for the breach. He felt he didn't need to ask Dr. W. for clearance. Dr had told them they could stay if they hept their part of the deal. Once they broke it, they had disqualified themselves. Dr, upon hearing the news, agreed with LCM's decision but a few days later decided to offer these people a new chance, He challenged them to get all of their money together in one week and re-commit to the agreement if they wanted back in. A number of them did come back in." "Dr and LCM always fought for people to stay in the Corps. There was an incident of a guy in the Corps who all of a sudden went "gooney-bird". He started to babble and not make sense. LCM worked hard with the guy to help him but he was incoherent. Dr, when he met him, confronted him by asking- 'Son, how come you're letting your mind get all scrambled?' The guy answered unintelligibly and Dr told him that it would be best for him just to pack his bags and go home. The guy understood that. He left. LCM spent many hours and many long distance phone calls trying to make sure the guy had gotten home from his bus ride home safely. Not being able to verify his location, he was concerned. Dr told him to move on. There's nothing you can do, he'll show up at home soon enough. A week later the guy did show up at home." "Dr began working and teaching the book of Acts verse by verse over the next 2 years. He encouraged the corps to work the book of Acts from the perspective of the 8 concluding statements that he laid out for them. Dr had thrown out the ball as he so often did and LCM picked it up and ran with it. The result was ultimately the 'Rise and Expansion' book. LCM put in 8-16 hours per day for a week working the subject." "The incident of 2 corps grads considering divorce. Dr called the husband in in front of a number of the leaders and openly confronted him and challenged him to keep his marriage together. Divorce is wrong. What is love? The Word of God!" "Dr was now teaching corps nights at HQ on Tuesdays, then right afterwards he'd get on the coach and go to Emporia to teach the corps there on Wednesdays. He did this for years. Just like in Acts 11- Antioch- they had a new root locale." Next time, 'August 1976- LCM and Donna get married."

This MIGHT have your answer: http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html

That's close to what I was going to say. Remember the steps vpw took to being in charge of twi. His area of study was NOT Bible languages, Koine Greek, Hebrew. His area of study was NOT Bible History-archeology, and so on. Those require a lot of study and significant amounts of memorization. He wasn't "hot" in those areas, either-as real students of them can easily point out. Even the passing mention of "earliest texts" in the Orange Book fail to mention documents found in the early 1950s-and the copyright is early 1970s. I know they didn't have the internet, but he kept getting all those magazines that kept going in the trash-and THEY would have mentioned that was NEWS. His area of study was "Homiletics", which, IMHO, is the EASIEST/ "softest" option to take in a Bible college. vpw then is unimpressive until he gets ahold of Leonard's class, and a few months later suddenly begins making a name for himself with Leonard's class, and, later, additions from Stiles, Bullinger and Kenyon. The "depth of research" there was just cutting-and-pasting. Without a convenient "cut-and-paste" source, he would have had to study history, archeology, customs and so on. Too much work for vp. Better to stick with what he can glean from Bullinger and Leonard on the OT.

Robert de Niro the Untouchables Sean Connery

"I'm gonna prove you guys wrong." "I hope you do. This is not between you and me." "Maybe not, but if I catch you on the street, I'm gonna kick the sh* out of you." "Now you got a ticket to watch the show." "You only see the turn. You don't see the road ahead." "I may be a sinner, but I'm willing to pay for my sins." "Right. See you at three." "We're gonna need a lot of Kleenexes...there's gonna be a lot of bloodshed." "You're like a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there!" ======= "You're worried that we'll screw up royally tomorrow, aren't you? Tomorrow's another day. I'm worried you're gonna screw up the rest of your lives." "Nobody has the right to accuse me of racism. NOBODY has the right to accuse me of racism!" "You know what kills me....it's that they lost the confidence in the system they're now finally qualified to be a part of." "It's not that they're stupid, it's just they don't know anything." "We're seniors. This is our year to slack off."

Obviously it was some kind of practical joke by a disgruntled ex-member.

"Location- Under Mulberry Tree." 1974-1975. ======= "1st year of family in the Corps. The 5th Corps are in their 1st year of in-residence." "LCM begins to lead and frequently run the SNS at HQ." "He began to become a genuine teacher to the Way Corps. His year on the field had helped him develop as a spiritual leader." "One time Dr saw a piano placed on a piece of cracked plywood to protect the floor. Must have looked crap because he got upset that people weren't taking care of the place physically." "'You've got to fight for this place,' he said. Tenderness and aggressiveness were exemplified." "Incident of the guy in the 5th Corps dying as the result of a car wreck." "The guy was buried in the Way Woods after cremation. Dr thought that cremation was a very practical way to be dealt with when you die." "Some in-residence Corps had approached Dr and LCM about the need to make adjustments in the In-residence Way Corps training. They needed it to be easier as they had families. Dr thought about it for awhile and then came back with his response which was to back up LCM totally and tell the in-residence people that if they couldn't handle the heat, then leave. LCM was very blessed to see that Dr had backed him up and endorsed the way he was running the program." "One time, a meeting was planned in the Way Woods and LCM was thinking through getting Dr home after the meeting. He wanted him to be able to use his golf-cart to drive home. So, LCM told a corps guy to go and take the golf-cart and bring it to the meeting-place. LCM said that he would get the necessary clearance from Dr Wierwille. He forgot to get the clearance, and the next time he saw Dr, he was chewed out. Dr stuck his finger into his chest and said 'Keep your hands off my stuff.' LCM apologized. He had slipped up and forgotten a detail and Dr was teaching him yet again. The only thing bigger in Dr's heard than people is the Word." "After talking with LCM one day, Dr dismissed all the corps for bad attitude problems. He told them 'Ok, as of right now, you're all out of the corps.' He then made it available to all of them to reapply to him by filling out a 3 x 5 card, The card had to express their willingness to obey leadership. Some of them decided to leave rather than obey." "As leaders in the ministry you sometimes can't get involved with everyone's problems. You just don't have the time. Sometimes all you can do is be there for your people in a crisis. LCM had a number of incidents where he hadnt been aware of certain people having difficulties. He had felt foolish for not knowing about it and not having been there to help." 1975-1976 1st year of Way Corps at Emporia. =========== "Dr said to LCM: 'Now it's your baby. Keep it moving, have no regrets.' One of the great learning standards-have no regrets." "Some people claimed that the ministry was turning the Way Corps into slave labour. They were working on getting Emporia into shape. Dr said to LCM, 'People love to work, they love to invest their labor into a place they have pride in.' " "LCM finally decided he needed to get married. He goes to Dr and lets him know his thoughts and seeking advice. Dr promised he'd look out for a good woman for him. Later, LCM decided to marry Donna and immediately told Dr. Dr said 'She's a good woman' and then rode off quickly on his motorbike. LCM found out later that he had gone at once to call Donna and talk to her to let her know and understand fully what she was getting into with LCM. He was going to be a great leader in the ministry and she had to be prepared to handle herself accordingly, etc." "Donna was in residence at the time but Dr gave her permission to visit Emporia frequently so that they could get started early on getting to know each other." "One situation arose when LCM made a gift presentation to Dr but omitted to make one to Mrs W. She was very embarrassed due to the breach in protocol. Privately, the next day, Dr and Mrs W reproved LCM for the error. If you are going to lead God's people, you cannot miss on protocol. It's representing God and the ministry." Next, we resume with "Location-House of His Healing Presence".

Location-South Trustee Office. LCM's 1st year in the Way Corps. ============== "Dr shared with them the example of two local businessmen who stayed their minds daily for one houron their businesses to try to bring to pass the things they wanted to see happen. That triggered LCM to start thinking about stayed mind and to start thinking in terms of visual imagery." "Uncle Harry and Dr W would sometimes argue with each other...sometimes in front of the corps. But they always resolved the issue, and when the argument was over, they walked away with no resentment or bitterness, etc. They would move on and stick with the decision." "One meal time-Incident of the 30th anniversary banquet- Dr wanted all the men to dress in tuxedos. Uncle Harry said that might not be the best utilization of the believers' money, having to rent tuxedos or buy them, etc. 'Why couldn't people just wear nice suits if they had them?' Dr erupted and said 'That's cause you just want to wear that calf-upset brown suit that you have and love to wear!' Everyone blurted out laughing. It was finally decided to wear tuxedos." "I Corinthians 2:9-16. This was when LCM learned the great concept of literals according to usage, a research project of Dr. W's." "Incident when Dr. W didn't know what to do about a WOW who had gone off her rocker. LCM, on seeing how he handled the situation, learned from it that you take help from people that you love and trust. You may not have all the answers yourself. Dr had said 'I don't know what to do, Howard. Tell me what I can do!' Dr later took the girl into his home for a few weeks and got her back to health." "LCM learns about the athlete's analogy of staying at your prime physically and spiritually." LCM takes over as 2nd corps coordinator. ==================== "Being a genuine student is an artform." "LCM would picture himself doing what Dr would do in certain situations." Location-Fountain & Garden of Living Waters. ============ "A leader is always trying to maximize time spent." "If a student is genuinely interested in learning, he will take the admonition the first time. It doesn't have to take multiple reproof sessions to get someone to change, nor does it have to take years of trial and error." Location-BRC. June 1971. ========= "2nd year in residence." "As a teacher Dr took great joy in knowing that his students were learning." "You don't look for negatives in people. However, you can't be blind to what's going on around you either. There's a balance." "Horse Sense is probably the greatest part of Corps Principle 1. Dr came to their trailer and started pointing out all the details they were missing- broken door handles, window handles, etc-little things that needed fixing." "Learn to pre-think things. Example of log stumps. Don't pick them up and move them until you know where their destination place will be." "Dr would often be more excited about the way his students presented the Word than he would be about his own presentations." "Dr was thinking about Word over the World and the fine arts, etc. He had a great artist in to train the corps people who had shown talent and interest in the arts. The guy never really took the ball and ran with it, though." "Dr told LCM 'We trust you to coordinate anything in the Way Ministry.'" "Decision to send LCM on the field to expand his exposute to different situations, etc." 19 people in the 2nd corps. =========== "Emotions never dominate the practicality of clear thinking and moving." " 'You're the best- go get them!' -First time LCM heard Dr use that expression was upon graduation from the corps and as he was being assigned to go to Oklahoma." "Dr called LCM after 3 weeks on the field and asked him how come he hadn't called since he arrived in Oklahoma. 'What kind of ego trip are you on?' " "Dr always put the ministry ahead of himself." "Time that Dr spent time with LCM's folks." 1974. ==== LCM teaches the ROA for the first time. The rain comes pouring down. Dr sticks his hand out from behind the curtain and pushes him out into the rain. 'If the people are going to get wet, so should you!'" Next time we'll pick up in "Location: Under Mulberry Tree. 1974-1975." ==============

Let's see if someone can solve this one before Raf returns. "I'm gonna prove you guys wrong." "I hope you do. This is not between you and me." "Maybe not, but if I catch you on the street, I'm gonna kick the sh* out of you." "Now you got a ticket to watch the show." "You only see the turn. You don't see the road ahead." "I may be a sinner, but I'm willing to pay for my sins." "Right. See you at three." "We're gonna need a lot of Kleenexes...there's gonna be a lot of bloodshed." "You're like a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there!"

Bravo. A gold star for each of them. Twinkies for everyone! I'd say a lot of wow's enjoyed the experience. I'd also say a lot of wow's DIDN'T enjoy the experience. See, sometimes it worked, and sometimes it didn't. When it worked it was great, when it didn't, it could be disastrous for the people. Few posters here will disparage the great times some HERE have said they had. HOWEVER, the great times were far from universal. What happened when they DIDN'T happen, and why they only appeared PART of the time, are grist for conversation, discussion, analysis, and outright denial here. Look closer. Some of us have had GREAT experiences, and SAID SO. HOWEVER, some people's lives were also ruined. They said so ALSO. Those who had great blessings warmed themselves at a fire that they did not build, and the fuel for the fire, too often, were the lives ruined by "leadership". When viewing stories of the good and bad TOGETHER, it looks more negative than an unrelenting list of good news. Duh. In twi, it was verboten to even begin discussing their failures, EVER. Some messageboards FORBID discussion that may suggest that one side does not have the be-all and end-all of wisdom and knowledge. Those also may seem more cheerful than here. Supressing much of the truth as they do, they have all the personality of Howdy Doody or Topo Gigio. Life is not a 50's sitcom. Twi is not a 50's sitcom, and never was. (Not from lack of trying...)

Hi there. Those of you who tuned in and liked "The Way:Living in Wonderland" may like this thread. That one looked at the book "the Way:Living in Love" and the picture of Wonderland that it presented. This thread will look at the book by lcm, titled "VP and Me." Since my approach will be similar, I labelled this thread accordingly. Now, then, this book was never released, not even to twi members. The only "circulation" extant is the notes taken on this book by people who were required to sit thru a "class" of its contents. Therefore, we lack an ability to go over it line-by-line. Thus, this can't be an "official" analysis of the book itself. However, what we do have is a pretty complete set of notes, from here: http://www.greasespotcafe.com/waydale/corp.../vp-and-me.html ==== The setup and structure of the book and its presentation are already listed there, so I won't repeat them here. I WILL, however, quote some highlights from the book before discussing, same as we did with the other thread. Remembering that this book contains reminiscences of lcm, and thus how lcm remembers things, I think it can be another useful tool in viewing vpw AND lcm. (So long as we remember that.) ================= "Most of the incidents were not written down at the time of occurrencs in diaries. etc. The book was written mainly from recollection." 1970-1971. ========= "The first time that LCM saw Dr. was when he was a senior at the University of Kansas. LCM went to twig first and found the teaching to be tremendous (electrifying). Donny Fugit taught. On Dec 8th 1970, Dr. Wierwille came to Laurence, Kansas to the fraternity house of Joe C**lt*r to teach twi. LCM immediately recognized him as a 'great man.' "LCM wanted to be right. Wanted to be convinced. The next time LCM saw Dr was in Witchita, Kansas when he visited with Cl**d*tt** R*y*l. When he was first introduced to Dr Wierwille, Dr said to him 'Hello-Well I have to go and eat this piece of cake.' Dr W would meet with all the believers from each city at a time in a room in the basement. All the Limb was there, but he'd meet with everyone branch by branch. Dr asked for help whenever he needed it. He asked Donny Fugit a question about something. LCM was very impressed and shocked that so great a man would ask for help in front of others. One day LCM received a copy of a letter that had been sent to his home address (he was on a job elsewhere at the time.) The letter had been in response to his letter about coming into the Way Corps. It was a couple of weeks old! Across the top of the copy was written "Either call Dr. Wierwille or forget it!"- Howard Allen. LCM ran to the phone and called Dr Wierwille. Dr asked him if he would come to summer school to see how he shaped up for acceptance into the corps. LCM said he'd be there with all his money together, etc. LCM had always planned on going into the Christian ministry with his church. but after taking PFAL, he realized that he and his denomination no longer saw eye to eye on issues. He wanted now to go Corps!" June 1971: Heading to HQ. ============ "LCM showed up without all of his money together for summer school." "After the service LCM went to Dr at the advice of Mrs Owens, and informed him that he did not have all of his money together for summer school. Dr looked at him and then said 'You can stay as long as your money holds!' LCM really looked upon this as grace upon grace and resolved never to go behind in his financial responsibilities. If he ever went a day behind, he decided, he would leave." "LCM was stunned to see Dr. mowing the lawn at HQ. HE was in his shorts! Surely a man of God as important as Dr. should not have to do menial work like this. He should be inside studying the Word!" "That summer Dr taught the 'Athletes of the Spirit' analogy for the first time." Fall of 1971. ========== "Start of Corps training. 'Welcome home son!' Dr says to LCM after he gets back from a trip to Oklahoma to see his folks. It was right then that LCM realized and decided that HQ was now his home. The very first corps night that LCM was ever at, Dr. showed everyone how to manage a 3 x 5 card file to help keep track of people's names, etc. LCM had expected a big heavy teaching and was amazed once again at the stuff that Dr came up with, the practicality of it." [A few months later] "Dr asked him while driving would he like to be the WOW coordinator He said 'Sure' (gulp)." "Commissioned the second wave of WOWs that year. LCM, now the coordinator, was asked if he wanted to have breakfast for the WOWs before they left to go on the field. Not being a morning-breakfast-type of person, and thinking that the ministry could save some money instead, he choose to not have breakfast prepared for the departing WOWs that day. The WOWs left before 7am that day with no food. When Dr heard that he was very hurt. He asked at lunch who had made the decision to send the WOWs away on an empty stomach. LCM put up his hand and admitted it was he. The learning he got was that finances are not the sole variable in moving the Word. There are times to spend and times not to spend. Being frugal is not the same as being stingy!" ======= Next time we'll resume with "Location-South Trustee Office. LCM's 1st year in the Way Corps."

Thanks. In all honesty, it was inspired by something Goey said (which I built on.)

The last time we discussed it was here... http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...wtopic=7353&hl=

And then the NEXT time the discussion comes up, he's surprised all over again that anyone's claimed there were problems... If he was on medication, this would be understandable, and compassion on our part would be called-for. This would mean he was biologically UNABLE to retain the information in his memory due to biochemical imbalance, or biological deficiency. Since this is not the case, I just take it at face value. No point in making much of a fuss over it, hoping to fix it. See, that's where you differ. As new information came in, you changed your mind. Most of the new posters do that within months of their arrivals.

It's a fourth-degree misdemeanor. I posted the citation from Ohio's laws. And they lost in court over that. I posted the verdict's link. I can answer this one before he even logs back in. If they reported it, it was "severe", thus, worthy to be reported. If they did not report it, it was not "severe", thus, unworthy of being reported. He will NOT get into specifics on them, because then he might get in the position of saying they should have reported a rapist, molestor, murderer,etc, rather than focusing on covering their OWN tracks. So, you can save the energy. OM will NEVER change positions on that, and you'll just waste time and energy trying to reason it with him.

"The Mask of Zorro". I was thinking of using that EXACT same quote. :D

I'll simplify this discussion slightly. "I am Agedsperson! When 80% of the ministry left in 1989, I stayed. I stayed thru the slow death spiral of the early 1990s, and left when the 2nd half of the 1990s introduced even WORSE policies. I never SAW any wrongdoing, and I never DID any wrongdoing! Therefore, everything I did was correct. Those whose actions were different, by definition, did NOT do the correct thing. Since I left in the late 1990s, that was the correct time to leave. Those who left later stayed too late, those who left before stayed too early. Those who stayed when I left were blind, those who left sooner were contentious. I stayed in 1989, therefore anyone who left in 1989 was wrong to do so. Period." ======== Clear enough for almost everyone? All right- now let's have coffee and cake in the music room!

'oldiesman'= ======== WOW, I hadn't read this thread up until now, and it's very interesting. Don't know if I ever posted this, but I was one of the runners who ran one of the 10 mile legs, from Rome City to Athens, carrying the torch. I think I also was the only non-corps person running. As I recall, this effort was coordinated by Bob Moynihan and all who ran received a bronze medallion. I had been training for this event for 6 months prior to make sure I'd be able to run 10 miles straight without stopping. The day before the start at Rome City, I develop this sharp pain in one of my legs. I start limping around and start getting very worried that I might not be able to run. While limping by the reception desk, a gal at the reception desk saw me limping, and I told her what was wrong. She immediately layed hands and prayed for me. The pain was gone. Next day, I ran the 10 miles with no problems. Day after that, my body ached all over, except that one part of my leg that was healed the day before! True story. Anyway, back to Craig, yeah he had to have the spotlight. Those of us who did the marathon ran 10 miles each, but all of a sudden when the torch is coming around the corner guess who's carrying it? Craig. Did he run 10 miles? No. Apparently Craig grabbed the torch a few yards back, and started running carrying the torch to the front with some others behind him. So here we are, each one running 10 miles busting our butts while we watch Craig grabbing the freakin torch running his few yards and getting all the attention like he's been running for miles. :lol: ========== You personally saw this, and you STILL say lcm wasn't all about himself?

'oldiesman'= "Of course it depends on the severity of the crime" [This has already been adequately addressed by other posters.] "but it may also be that they don't want to rat on a brother/sister in Christ if they don't have to." [And I don't want to pay payroll tax, but it's the law and I do it.] [ All states have similar legislation. Hq is in Ohio and is under the Federal and State laws governing Ohio. Ohio Revised Code section 2921.22 states: " (A) No person, knowing that a felony has been or is being committed, shall knowingly fail to report such information to law enforcement authorities. (B) Whoever violates division (A) of (B) of this section is guilty of 'failure to report a crime'. Violation of division (A) of this section is a misdemeanor of the fourth degree." ] "But kicking them out immediately is strong punishment, and better than keeping them in, wouldn't you say?" [Trick question. The proper response upon a religious organization's discovery that a member or employee has committed a crime, is to report that individual to the local legal authorities. Period. Kicking the person out is independent of the MORAL responsibility to protect the community, and the LEGAL responsibility to report a criminal. Here's an example of how Ohio law views this sort of thing... http://www.cleveland.com/abuse/index.ssf?/...1185150122.html This legal response -requiring reporting of a crime- predates the founding of the United States and has its roots in "raising a hue and cry" back in the Dark Ages of Europe. ]

So how IS Jeff doing these days?

Here's a quote I think relates in a way. Martin Niemoeller said: "First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out- because I was not a communist. Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out- because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out- because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out- because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me- and there was no one left to speak out for me."

lcm seems to have DISAGREED with you on this one, Oldiesman. You SUPPOSED that's what he was thinking. "Out There" PHONED him and spoke to him PERSONALLY on this. ====== "Out There": "When I received the Loyalty letter in the mail I immediately called LCM and by some miracle after leaving a message he actually called me back. When I asked if this letter was a call to blindly follow him he said I had been doing this all along. I then told him thats what he thinks he could 'kiss my foot'. I think I was dropped from the rolls of the Way Corps that next morning." ===== Therefore, lcm was WELL AWARE he was calling for blind, unquestioning loyalty to HIM, and thought that blind, unquestioning loyalty was his DUE.

Clarifying our terms to avoid confusion is a necessary step if we are to increase in understanding. Therefore, making sure we mean EXACTLY the same thing with our terms is necessary. It aids understanding and retards "weasel-wording", where someone keeps changing the meaning in an attempt to dominate the discussion. ====== BTW, I didn't do my own research there-that was quoted from further up the page, from a poster who DID do his own research. ==== A healthy skepticism to any man's position is good. It means we then look for ourselves and see if he's right or not. This is especially true if previous examinations have shown him to have a low batting average on his signature doctrines. Therefore, a calm, reasoned approach is superior to an "I love him" approach, just as it's superior to an "I hate him" approach. ===== Finally, Mark quoted his source for his "research", WTH did not, but insisted we do our own. What's your source, WTH? Did YOU do your own?

'oldiesman': I beg to differ. I validate the letter on its own, without needing support from the events that followed. [No, you're operating with PARTIAL information, and that out of choice. ] But when I look at those events, they were godly. Folks left who believed Craig and the BOT were worshipping other gods, or at least not "standing on the word", which got the folks who were unhappy and malcontented, out. [Partially true. This did not mean those who stayed were clueless about the ERROR practiced at hq. They just had LESS evidence, or had more reason to stay-like the famous "they thought they could fix things from within." ] There was, among other things, lots of peace in the fellowships that remained. No more arguing about Craig and the BOT being off the wall. [ The fellowships that remained varied widely. Those in NYC were FINE for the most part because NYC twi'ers as individuals were stubborn individuals who were slow to bend their neck or scratch gravel for ANYBODY. That puts them as high on the list to escape when someone demands BLIND loy-alty. Further, the twiglets took their cues from the twig coordinators. The twig coordinators took their cues from the branch coordinators. The branch coordinators took their cues from the territory coordinators. The territory coordinators took their cues from the Limb coordinator. The Limb coordinator of NY state at that time was VF. VF was on some people's short-list for vpw's successor. He was better suited to running things nationally than lcm, and had experience running twi stuff. Therefore, he was more than capable of keeping the state intact, which he did. Locals didn't hear there WERE problems because we were insulated from it- because higher-ups didn't pass that along. Nobody below Territory Coordinator knew. So, branch coordinators smiled and said everything was fine-so the twig coordinators did the same, which is why you had no idea there were problems 1985-1989. However, there WAS information there-to which you lacked access. Some had access. When I heard there were problems, I naively thought they could be fixed, and VF might go work things out and help restore balance to lcm. I even said so. The very next piece of news from lcm was "I'm firing VF and every other staff member in NY state for being evil." So, every staff member in NY state seceeded-since they were already kicked out- but they remained in contact with each other-which makes sense unless you're an idiot. ] Twigs were loving full of peace unity, and no legalism. [ Because they were maintained at the state, city, and neighborhood levels, there was some love and peace LOCALLY. This being twi, there was LESS legalism, but there was still legalism.] PFAL classes were still being run and the word was moving. [ Locally, things moved along because locally we knew what we were doing. Locally, that's always been the case. ] There was still a WOW program where the word was moving. [ I question the success of the wow program, for several reasons. At best, it was a mixed bag. Furthermore, you know NOTHING about what it was like on the field in 1989. lcm forced the issue with 1/4 of the wows. lcm kicked people off the field all over the place in 1989. So wows were STRANDED in the field as a direct result of lcm stripping them of leadership and part of their "families." In several cases, the wows notified hq that they were now stuck as a result-for rent and so on, which they were paying. HQ said-in one case I'm aware of-and I expect this was true for many I am NOT aware of-that they would help for THIS month but they were smoked for next month. WHEN THE PROMISED HELP FROM TWI DID NOT ARRIVE- which was the result of needs generated by twi kicking wows off the field- the wows were then forced to turn to rank-and-file believers to provide the assistance twi PROMISED to provide and was morally responsible TO provide. Since one believer who was contacted said "Well, I haven't sent in my tithe for this month yet, so I can send it to you", the wows I'm aware of were not EVICTED, which would have been the result of lcm's decision and twi's failure to live up to a direct promise. Ever see a wow get his pin and REFUSE TO SHAKE lcm's hand? Someone got a snapshot.... That was lcm's "contribution" to the wow field.] Some folks were even returning, who had left in 1989. I would estimate a window of about 5 years (1989-1994) when the word was moving. I'm not saying everything was perfect, but it certainly wasn't tyrannical, at least where I was. Far from it. [Actually, the stage was already being set. Forget the wow program, the PFAL class-lcm was preparing to throw them out and replace them with something inferior because it had his name on it. And if a handful was returning, at least that many were STILL LEAVING. Of course, with so few NYC'ers LEFT, it's hard to see ANY people arriving as anything less than a huge jump. ] I was a twig coordinator too from around the end of 1989 to end of 1990 and I know there was no legalism. [ Not local to you, no. Didn't you find it odd when lcm sent a letter saying "I'm firing VF and Li*** Ma***, your local overseer, because he's corrupt?" You'd met LM, correct? Didn't you know he was the real deal? ] I can't speak for others involvement during that time, but my time right after 1989 up until I stopped going to twig was pleasant and the word was moving. [ Oh, wait- you're one of the guys who stayed and were promoted to "top local guy" after everyone with a lick of training left. That explains a lot.... If I'd stayed, you might have been taking orders from me within a few years.... But after around 1993-94, was when I think the present day false doctrines started about the excessive legalism, prying into peoples lives, mandatory ABS, genuine spiritual suspicion, word already over the world, closed ministry, homo purge, excessive meanness, so on and so forth. [ Wrong. When lcm fired all the staff across NY state, the Father Son and Holy Ghost caught the last train to the coast. 4 out of every 5 Joe Believers walked. All the Territory and Branch coordinators walked. Almost all the Advanced class grads walked. ALL the corps grads walked. That was statewide-citywide, the numbers were even higher in NYC. The Bronx was a Territory before lcm drew his line in the sand- it became a SMALL twig AFTER the line. Manhattan-the same. I'm not aware of anyone I knew in BQSI who stayed, which to me is a sign that the majority of the other 3 boroughs walked as well. I know it's true NORTH of NYC, in Westchester County and Yonkers as well. ===== I do know a handful of people DID stay, for reasons which were there own. (I didn't speak to any of them face-to-face.) I AM aware that those whom I knew who stayed, they were among the "bottom-feeders" in skill and ability. As I said once before, if I had stayed, I would have been one of NYC's heavier hitters even then. That's not saying I was that good-that's saying those who remained were not up to scratch. All the quality people left, and a handful of the least-talented stayed. Doesn't say much for the discernment of the remainders. You've previously posted that there were some quality heavy-hitters who remained in NYC after the 1989 split. Once again, I call "shenanagans" on that. After 1989, the skill-levels would have to be recalibrated to measure at lower levels to consider stragglers as heavy-hitters. All the people lcm himself used to cite as important had left- wows, corps, Advanced class grads. After 1989, of course, he stopped saying this, since they weren't around.]

Pat Morita The Next Karate Kid Hilary Swank