WordWolf

Unless you're having problems, it probably would be better to leave 98 on it. Meanwhile, clean out the drive of trash. Update AdAware and Spybot: Search and Destroy and run them; update your antivirus and run that.

It's not that hard to get in touch with us. Many of us are still here on the GSC. Some of us ARE getting together in places around the US. You can contact some of us privately or publicly, as you see fit. Either way, those of us still Christian can still pray for you.

Hello, John. We've never met, but I've read your books back when. I'd also read your letter sometime after the initial fallout. Please keep the width of your posts a little narrower-most of us don't like trying to read a "stretched screen." I was glad to see you'd reconsidered certain things taken as a given at twi, like the mandatory tithe or losing God's protection, making God a protection racket. Other matters I do not necessarily agree. I understand that in some cases, answering questions will be better served by pasting an answer or posting a precise link, so as to keep from answering the same 5 questions over and over. Some people, having weathered bitter crises, I'm sure, will want to vent a bit and/or ask what you knew and when you knew it. To some degree, I'd think some degree of answer, albeit general, would be in order. Some questions are more comfortable to dodge or duck, but I'm sure you can see this would make it look like you were here primarily to RECRUIT rather than help. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt on it, but if you act as if that's why you're here, I reserve the right to change my mind. My primary question was already answered. (Jeff posted that letter entirely on his own.) I do have what I feel is a critically-important question and would appreciate an answer here eventually. After reading you say this... I'm very curious what your opinion is on other Christians who never took PFAL, heard of TWI, VPW, etc. Were they deprived of something fundamentally unique and amazing by missing PFAL? Were they secondary in skill as a result of never taking the classes, going Corps, etc.? Are Christians who never take PFAL or equivalent classes second-class Christians by comparison? Also, someone we've heard has put forth that VPW was some sort of "overgifted" Christian, "born with an overabundance of brains and brawn", and "when he walked, the earth shook." (No, not Jeff.) What's your position on VPW? Do you think his account of the snowstorm and God speaking audibly was truthful? Did God really teach him His Word like it hasn't been known since the 1st century? Do you believe that the ex-twi'ers and their students since then have a fundamental advantage over all other Christians? I'm aware that you can consider these the questions of one person. Please keep in mind, however, that MANY people here would appreciate honest answers, without evasion, on those questions. I can respectfully disagree, if necessary, if I'm told outright. I can't be respectful if the only response is noninformative or a dodge. In other words, enquiring minds, including mine, want to know. Please answer as you have opportunity. God bless and take care. WordWolf.

Man, I hope that thing works better than "Catwoman." Fans could forgive it for having nothing to do with the original if it was good. (Like "Blade".) As it is, you don't want to hear the nickname for the movie in certain circles.... I'm waiting for more info on the FF before making any judgements.

*looks twice* Yeah, looks like he answered the question all right. I'm ashamed I missed it, but at least I wasn't alone.

Sky4it, I have the impression that you and I are reading different threads....

I reviewed that page. Please copy the post you meant, and indicate EXACTLY what you thought addressed this question. I shall respond by either agreeing and dropping the question, OR showing that the response was ambiguous and did NOT say it one way or the other. Thank you.

Tecnically, 7/10/04, Jeff's did answer. However, his answer was an evasion, and was phrased ambiguously. It could be taken either way. (See page 1.) Since then, the question has come up (7/17). No answer was given then, when a "yes or no" answer was asked. This may mean that Jeff unintentionally evaded the question the first time, and MEANT to speak clearly, and he has somehow missed all the comments since then in this thread where he's been asked again, or it was said again that he did NOT answer. That would be an innocent mistake and misunderstanding. This may also mean that Jeff intentionally meant, from the beginning, to refuse to impart any answer that was not misleading, and has refused to post on this thread since then to retain "plausible deniability", and claim the first option was correct. Since then, John's been asked also. We're still waiting for an answer from him. When he arrives here and posts himself, I shall also ask him the same question. ============= Mind you, if Jeff is intentionally hiding, then he is hiding one of three things: A) he posted this without asking JAL, whom he is in regular communication with, thus, he did this intentionally leaving JAL out of the loop B) he posted this having first consulted JAL and recieiving his approval. C) JAL specifically sought out Jeff and ASKED JEFF to post this on his behalf. If this is true, then JAL intentionally meant to "sound out" the impressions of people on this board, and deliberately employed Jeff as a "stalking horse" and to allow a certain degree of "plausible deniability" to himself. Whether or not a response EVER comes from Jeff or from JAL, those ARE the possibilities. It thus falls on the readers to determine what they believe- and, in fact, to determine if any response is truthful.

Not that I saw.... ..and to me, that's BEEN my main purpose on this thread. He did not confirm it, he did not deny it, he did not state that he was refusing to do either. Which means one of 2 things: A) Jeff hasn't been around all week or B) Jeff is trying to maintain "plausible deniability" and thus trying to be deliberately ambiguous. Take your pick. Me, I'd prefer to just ask JAL. So, I will, next chance I get.

I'll be sure to ask him what I was wondering about in the other thread. That is, if he asked or approved Jeff posting that letter "to us", and, either way, how much of it accurately reflects his feelings at present. If I'm going to smoke him, I'd prefer to do it over legitimate problems, and not misunderstandings. ;)-->

I've compared the GSC to 12-step programs for survivors of experiences to people before....

This, really, is what I wanted to know from him, and what I thought was relevant to this discussion.

Thought this thread might help Paw's little search....

It has been reported that Alexander the Great was asked, on his deathbed, who he willed his empire to. The reported reply: "To the strongest." =============== If I was taught right, Trotsky had the quote wrong. He said it was "my country, right or wrong", meaning, I support my country even if it's completely wrong. The quote was originally, "My country, right or wrong- IF RIGHT, TO DEFEND IT, IF WRONG, TO CORRECT IT." That's how I heard it in history class back when.

[WordWolf responds in boldface as usual.]

Sooooooo.... MJ...... Yes, or no, then....... Was it "wrong", in your opinion.. For John to research his paper? For John to write his paper? For John to share the results of his paper? ============== Should he instead have buried the thing and trusted that "God will cover?"

So, how big is CES and who's currently in the top spots? What about other offshoots?

Sky4it: Just so you know, that letter was written in the late 80's and was current when the breakups were taking place. There's been over a decade since then. We've certainly learned a lot about errors and mistakes in pfal. Perhaps JAL has learned some of them, too-perhaps some of the SAME errors, including the "first century" thing and the "mogfot" thing. I don't know one way or the other. I DO know, however, that it's VERY sloppy of him to not have revised that accordingly when he had the chance and done revisions, if he no longer believes that. So, I'm not sure he still teaches or believes that. I'm not sure he DOESN'T, either. He'll have to speak up for himself, or someone will have to cite a recent teaching/quote on that from him. I figured you'd want to know that, since the letter makes more sense when you know it's fundamentally the same letter written long ago. (Still error, but a bit more understandable that way.)

A)How many multi-state organizations have formed (at least 1 regular local meeting/group in at least 3 states-or 2 if there's multiple meetings locally) are there? Who started them and runs them now? How big are they? B)How many multi-state organizations have closed down since 1989? C) How many state wide organizations have formed? (Multiple members and meetings across more than 20% of a state, with members only in that state?) Who started them and runs them now? How big are they? D) How many local, one-or two neighborhood, or one-household-sized organizations currently meet in someone's home?

There was a single post that was eventually edited by staff, in the middle of some other thread. It was deemed inflammatory, apparently.

Can we refine the original question into 4 different questions? (Context for all: extwi, with doctrine and leadership formerly from twi) A)How many multi-state organizations have formed (at least 1 regular local meeting/group in at least 3 states-or 2 if there's multiple meetings locally) are there? Who started them and runs them now? How big are they? B)How many multi-state organizations have closed down since 1989? C) How many state wide organizations have formed? (Multiple members and meetings across more than 20% of a state, with members only in that state?) Who started them and runs them now? How big are they? D) How many local, one-or two neighborhood, or one-household-sized organizations currently meet in someone's home? I think we can end up mixing the answers and talking apples-oranges if we're not careful.

Thus the value in allowing us some anonymity at the GSC, for those of us who prefer not to bring in our baggage. Or, those who answer faster to our screenname than our legal name, as the case may be. ======== Hello, Eagle-Steve, however you'd like to be addressed. You know where the coffee is already, help yourself. Perhaps, should you ever have spare time (I've heard of this "spare time" thing somewhere), you might consider updating that old article, and letting the old and new sit side by side, allowing both to be viewed, and the differences also seen. Or perhaps not.

I think everyone's saying it better than me, so I won't address that. (Nor will I insist my viewpoint is the only one. We've all had enough of that.) Quick sidenote, Coolwaters... I've gone over the details of the supposed Jubbulpore incident and concluded it was entirely manufactured, and never happened except in the words of the man who said it happened. Let me know if you need the breakdown-I'm sure you can do it yourself. We also discussed it here somewhere and I broke it down already. (Maybe a search under "Jubbulpore"?)

Um, here on the GSC.... You hit "new post" or "reply". While the window is open, the first menu item right above the box you type in is a smiley-face. Click on it once for the smiley menu. Click on any smiley in the menu to add it to your post where the cursor now rests.