mstar1

Way doctrine is a huge part of that. Wafers, and especially leadership, were already justified, righteous and sanctified by fiat not by any acts of their own and were therefore unjudgeable. They were free to do anything with no restraints since they were already 'justified'. Anyone who brought up accountability to a selfjustified higher up was labelled as unrenewed, possessed or 'the accuser' --a pretty slick trick.

I saw some show a few years back interviewing a few folks who are still Branch Davidians even with full knowledge of what David Koresh did.....according to them he was a very gifted teacher and prophet of the lord but with some personal issues and failings SSDD

...with a gift ministry....

Any organization anywhere would offer a huge thank you and offer a gold watch and a dinner for all the years of service if someone were to move on( or at extreme very least a signed card with well wishes) but Waysider is right. It's all about*Ka-Ching* *Ka-Ching*and subservience--the very second that stops you are possessed and evil no matter what you have done for years or decades

Last month I was a juror in Superior Court for a rape trial which was very enlightening to me. I learned a lot during the trial. From what has been posted here over the years, which I have no reason to doubt and has been very consistant, I not only think that Werewolf is, but I would vote for a GUILTY verdict if this were ever in a courtroom. Over the years I havent paid as close attention to the allegations against Martindale and Rivenbark as I should have/could have to have a really informed opinion. So I'm unsure. The one advantage that the Martindale/Rivenbark victims have is that those two are still alive. Depending on the state the statute of limitations may not have run out. If rape did occur they should be fully prosecuted and reap what they have sown.

You were overwhelmingly gracious about that Paw-going to the trouble to call them and posting their response for them when they could have just done it on their own What has baffled me from day one is why people from a group that contends that they live without any fear, lurk in the shadows like frightened puppies instead of just openly and freely posting their points like everyone else. So much for 'contending for the faith". The silence from them, except in that one instance, has been deafening. It has said as much about way 'faith', what little it has to offer and how substantially inconsequential it is than years of our contrarian posts that try to explain its emptiness.

Long may you run too-- we're going to have to figure out a place to continue this music thread--to me it is often like manna , food from heaven, that gets me through the day. Hopefully someone starts one up on the FB page or figures out some other new geeky gizmo that keeps it going.... For me its been a very long dark and difficult winter... I saw Jorma Kaukonen last night, he has a simple and understated way to convey exactly what I need... <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ydMzM7aqT7M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

In case anyone wonders why the Star Spangled Banner gets sung before every sporting event...HERE is a little synopsis

well what would we expect--his teacher, "the great one" walked down the church aisle kicking people right in the cajones.... just like Jesus did.... Honestly.... I have to wonder what book these people read sometimes and what they think that they get from it... Even children know that behaviour is f'ed up. Do you have to have a worthless degree in 'biblical research' to get so screwed up that you cant figure out the difference between right and wrong in the very simplest and most basic things?

Yea I thought it was pretty bad too--even before she screwed up the lyrics it was way over the top about her...Ive seen some good ones, some bad ones, most are like a good ritual of remembrance, some are really heartfelt but it is pretty atrocious when it becomes about the performer.... even the Hendrix version at Woodstock had a real heartfelt artistic expression of america of the time embedded in its rhythms to me that I still appreciate. I was at a Red Sox game a few years back that was Disability Awareness Day and they had a boy with Downs Syndrome sing. He was NOT a professional singer by any stretch of the imagination, was offkey, nervous and faltered but he was genuine. It eventually turned into one of the better and more memorable versions that I have heard due to the spontaneous gesture of support that it evoked. <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NhcZRFcjbhw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I met some people on the lower levels of wayworld that were kind and thoughtful but no one that was particularly gifted as a pastor. It wasnt until I was out and actually met some people that were real pastors that I realized that I was looking in the wrong bucket. The Way was self declared as not being a 'christian' organization--and although they meant it differently (they were better), I believe they were absolutely right, they werent christian It would be sort of dense to expect any real'gift ministries' at all to live there. Some people may have been pretty good salesmen while they were selling a class, or a book, or a program but thats about the most credit I can honestly give to them. As far as other gifts--Martindale had the gift of yelling and screaming---more than any other adult than I have ever seen, but its not something that I really look for or revere

I remember Wierwille saying that, imo it was yet another way to justify his being an obnoxious and self centered pr*ck.

Thanks Socks I love Willie Porter--- This for everyone who is happily single: <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KCCY5n2KhhI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Im enjoying some amazing Uke this morning from Jake Shimabokura <iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/snPQ1z5FoqQ" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

WoWs?

I cant decide which line describes his *ministry better at first I thought this was fairly succinct about TWI Til I read this--- which is even better

Something very good called very evil: leaving TWI and never looking back

For the people of Egypt: <iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xNZ0QHvt7VA" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

I have at least 6 feet of snow piled up on the edges of my driveway--the only thing I know for sure is that mud season is gonna be very squishy this year---AND... Im praying the Sox can go without the injury plague this year. It all looks good on paper, if Ellsbury and Crawford can stay healthy they could potential steal 150 bases..which is mind boggling to me having lived through the Sox years when anyone with 10 was a big deal....and there is talk about moving the rightfield bullpens in 10 to 12 feet to accomodate Adrian Gonzalez....Im expecting a big year from Buccholz..... Im sure the Yankees will have plenty of things up their sleeves and as always nobody knows what the surprise factors and surprise teams will be yet---Its a long long way to October. HELL--its still a long way til April

Manny used to take about a month off in Florida every season anyway--maybe this will work out for him.... seriously-I cant believe they got him for 2million. Never mind that he'll be hitting in that park. I didnt (and still dont) think the Rays line up well on paper this year, but two vets of the AL East like Manny and Damon will at least make it interesting. Bartolo Colon to the Yanks? WTF is that all about?

Good points WW--earlier on in this thread I was trying to stay away from any good/bad judgements and point out that whatever he was, he certainly was a one very insecure man. You tangentially pointed it out much better than I could have....the incredible need for attention, the sexual exploitation, the bizarre practices and doctrines (stand when he enters the room etc.)....even mainstream way doctrine seems to me was directly linked to satiate his hunger for importance. on another note (well maybe its really the same)... Huh?? I know that us poor oppressed males have lived as second, third and eighth class citizens for centuries now. We are nearly outcasts from society and have never been given any opportunity beyond ruling the world, running the corporations and being at or near the top of every field of human endeavour. Its been tough, really tough, being a male with all this disrespect floating around. Just when does the worship start?

well that's a very true statement--- on a side note--what is that thing doing there?

Congratulations----enjoy the hordes of adoring fans, and dont take the first contract offer! I gotta tell ya--after all this time of saying how off they are, it's ironic that you just got 'so blessed' at a church that you had to tell us all-- :)

it depends largely on whats next-- if the transition goes well I can't see waxing nostalgic. If not so well or just some blank vast abyss--anything from maggot to magi might[/] be acceptable-- but I dont particularly want a do over...if it does go that way at least have it be a different kind of colorful. I dont know if I get to set the terms, or if the choosing is up to me....... as in everything else I'll have to cross that bridge when I come to it

Cold Rain and Snow is about all I have on my mind right now <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw9NHSMv7lk?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw9NHSMv7lk?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw9NHSMv7lk?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object> Oh---and ICE (which is everywhere) <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7jFI8SUv0Q?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7jFI8SUv0Q?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7jFI8SUv0Q?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>