johniam

Trefor: Let it suffice to say that there are some of us who believe the bible is really the word of God and not this big jigsaw puzzle with interchangeable or "outdated" pieces. Do you believe homosexuals are born that way? Then why can't they reproduce that way like everything else in biology? Cancer cells cannot reproduce on their own; in order for them to increase their numbers, they have to turn normal cells into cancer cells. Likewise, in order for homosexuals to increase their numbers, they have to turn normal people into homosexuals. If homosexuality is a normal life style, then having cancer is, too. Biblically, there is no record of anyone from St Louis doing anything good for God or his people. The grace and mercy of God don't allow any special privileges for me that they don't also allow for homos. What context do I really need to understand to ignore Lev. 18:25b the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants. Even for God that's pretty tough talk. What about Romans 1? It doesn't take an engineer to figure out that a penis is designed for a vagina. LCM basically alienated himself from anyone who may need deliverance. See, only God can make such a pronouncement against anyone, homo or otherwise. We all need God's grace. We all sin. My flesh is no purer than any homo's. From my human point of view it's all corruptible flesh. No difference. If God himself thinks that homosexuality is a really evil thing, then who are we to argue? You put all the scripture together without bending, twisting, or "outdating" it, the jury is back with a guilty verdict. That doesn't mean God loves you less than me or anybody else. It does mean that if you think homosexuality is normal even if you're not gay that your heart has departed from the Lord. Four billion robots can't be wrong. I wouldn't know a gay person if I saw one. Those old cliches may have been reliable at one time (limp wrist, feminine sounding voice, earing in the left ear, etc.) but not anymore. If I were a homo and wanted deliverance from it, I sure wouldn't go to someone like LCM for it. You're right, we view the bible differently.

Excathedra: I'm sorry about your issues. I really am. I've been sexually assaulted before. Twice, once when I was 18, once when I was 20. I lived through it but it made me feel very ASHAMED. I can still work up a pretty good rage over it from time to time. If anyone ever does that to me again, they'll need to have help. I don't care if I'm 80. I like you because you're usually cheerful. You make me laugh and your spin on things is often light hearted; easy to be entreated. You bless so many here. I don't like thinking I had anything to do with driving that away from you today. THIS YEAR the catholic church has gotten bad press for their priests molesting children, but we both know that they've been getting away with that crap for 1600 plus yrs. The poop himself did that stuff in Poland before he was poop and easily 3/4 of those priests that surround him at the vatican are only there because they can't serve anywhere else for the same reason. I'll bet that if a 12 yr old boy in, say, Brazil ever told authorities that he'd been molested he'd probably get the .... beat out of him. Yet all those people worship that guy. I'm sorry if my posts ....ed you off, but I'm not sorry about my opinion. James says that the same fountain cannot issue both fresh and salt water, but the same mouth CAN issue both blessing and cursing. If you're still that vulnerable yet then maybe you should avoid some threads. I don't know what else to say.

Trefor: Read Leviticus 18. As for incest, yes, originally Adam and Eve's children had to marry each other. Issac and Jacob married first cousins. Moses father Amram married his own aunt. Lot's daughters incestually raped him for the purpose of keeping the human race alive, but the offspring which resulted from this became two nations (Ammon and Moab) which were thorns to Israel. By the time Leviticus was written there was no more reason to marry a sister. Biblically, there is no record of any homosexual doing anything good for God or his people.

I took the CFS class three times. I liked it; I saw good from it. Here's why. 1) I agree with Whitedove that VPW's heart behind the class was to communicate that sex need not be associated with guilt and sin; that it's supposed to FUN!!! That doesn't mean he never was manipulative with it himself. I must admit that it bothers me to learn that he really did all that stuff to all those girls behind the scenes, but I'm not yet ready to dismiss everything he ever taught as evil. 2) Ten yrs ago Madonna said in an interview that she thought America has a 'sex problem'. The problem was in communication. That you can't just say what you think without SOMEBODY getting righteously indignant and that this has had a growing negative effect on a lot of peoples' attitude about their own sexuality. That they can't think about sex without associating it with guilt and that Europe and other places do not have this problem. I agree with her. I was raised as an only child. From age 10 through HS graduation it was just me and my mom. She was born in 1910. 1910 model moms just didn't have the software package required to talk with adolescent sons candidly about sex. I was on my own. The first time I masturbated I knew I wasn't urinating, and I knew this girl in my 7th grade homeroom had something to do with it, but I didn't know what it was. In science class the teacher taught us about the digestive organs and the juices they secrete. For a brief time I lay in bed wondering if I'd broken through to the digestive organs and should immediately get a doctor to put them back in. Hilarious isn't it. Talk to my mom about this? HA! Talk to my friends? HA HA!! Talk to the girl in my 7th grade homeroom? Hmm. No. Sexual candidness in the USA is a hostile atmosphere which has scarred many adolescents even unto this day. 3) In the bible, sex education was simple. The only source of input was family; even the grandparents got involved. No hostile atmosphere. The law made it clear in Leviticus 18 and other places that incest, homosexuality, and bestiality were perverted. Simple. Today, there's no topic of discussion that invites more confusion than sex. Who do you trust? Parents, siblings, kids in the neighborhood, etc???? When I was 9, a 10 yr old kid on my street said what's cuff spelled backwards? When I said it he said that's a BAD word and don't ever say it in front of grown ups. Sounds like sex ed to me. 4) Conclusion. VPW was a 1916 model MOG. He surely grew up around uptight people re: sex. His despicable behavior notwithstanding, it was better for him to share his heart on such a key topic than to not say anything like my 1910 mom. Not to do so would have been irresponsible of him. Plotinus, do you counsel people on sex? I saw people take CFS with their moms. That class was about interpersonal communication, not the exploitation of women. He didn't need a class to further that agenda since he did it in secret. Sadly, most of the posts on this thread have beautifully played right into the hostile environment Madonna spoke of. 5) OK all done. Take your best shot.

Hey Pirate did you really do that with the popcorn? I'm the kind of person who would try it; I actually dialed 1 800 EAT-****.

Since we're talking about cooking, I discovered something I would never have guessed possible. One thing I've been eating lately is ricearoni with a chopped up habanero pepper (the hottest chili pepper, even hotter than jalapeno) mixed in. Just for fun I added a small onion one time only to find that the onion actually retarded the effect of the pepper. Normally, an onion is considered abbrasive, but it played the role of fabric softener for me. I've done it that way several times now with the same result. Any LCM'll tell you onions are possessed, though.

Ginger: You said... "If one puts love and care into their bodies, their faces, their hair...their belongings...like the gardens, they'll flourish in beauty." Are you saying that, to you, beauty is just good stewardship of what God has given you?

Thanks for the feedback; I thought I was gonna get flamed for that. I agree with QQ that Laleo's post was good and candid. I found nothing threatening or offensive about it. Excath: I thawree.

Something weird is happening on this thread. Excathedra, I theen you may have some splaining to do. Just doing some detective work here. Really, nobody has any splaining to do and I don't CARE if it's none of my beeswax, I'm curious as to why....????.... 21:32 Excathedra posts. 22:17 QQ posts. 22:17 Excathedra deletes most of previous post. 22:20 Ex realizes post had been read. 22:27 QQ deletes part of HIS post. 22:48 Ex posts again. 22:53 Laleo deletes entire long post that had been on for 8 1/2 hrs. 22:55 Ginger posts. 23:04 Ex deletes most of 22:48 post. I was going to comment on part of Laleo's post, but now I don't know. This is weird.

OK. I'll weigh in on this one. I don't think TWI participation affected my notions about female beauty. LCM's behavior was hidden from believers like me, but had I known I would still not have aspired to be like him. I was raised in a household with a mom and 2 sisters who graduated HS before I started kindergarten. Predatory males even at the Jr. High and HS level were "bad guys" in my thinking. I clean windows for a living. Among my accounts are several women's clothing stores and even a Hooters. I spend anywhere from 15 min. to an hour and a half in the vanity atmosphere QQ described "like the grail, unattainable by the standards set by the industries and empires which sell beauty products". Those thuggish looking models whose oversized pictures leer at those in the store don't turn me on at all. However, there is one chain store I service that always seems to have beautiful women going in and out of the place. It's Walgreens! THOSE women are not trying to be bigger than life sexually intimidating like the thugs and their wannabes. They're just discreetly going about their business and without trying to (much) they look GREAT! I DO think the fashion industry targets women who may be insecure about their appearance. I think Madonna looks better at forty something than she did when she was 25. QQ intersting what you say about the "standards" changing from culture to culture. I think if there's one common denominator in female beauty throughout time, it's the eyes. In Gen. 29:17 it says Leah was tender eyed in direct contrast to Rachel being beautiful and well favored. Back then girls and women did not wear tank tops or bikinis and the like. The only media they had with which to express their sexuality was their eyes and their faces. Even today, a woman who knows how to use her eyes has a WMD Saddam never thought of. Yes, those other body parts will get our attention, but when it's time to go for the kill, out come the eyes. I don't understand why some women use make up to hide their eyes.

I agree with song; Chuck Berry is 76 and he still performs once a month and he can still do that duck walk with his guitar. I saw Ozfest in STL a week and a half ago. Ozzie's 54 but his mannerisms suggest someone 20 yrs older (guy's fried) but the show was OK. He had Zack Wild on guitar and Jason Newstead (ex metallica) on bass and lot of teens in the crowd knew the words to all the old Black Sabbath songs he did. Rock'n roll's a state of mind; there just haven't been a lot of rockers previously who lived to be that old and still do it. Long live rock!

This is weird, but I know this girl who is sensitive about her height, of all things. She's 6 feet tall, which is probably above average for women, but she's good looking. I can't fathom why she would be sensitive about this but she is. Go figure.

I hear that 63% of adults are over weight or something like that. I'm definitely in that 63%. I'm really not that sensitive about it. In that movie 'Clear and present danger' Harrison Ford's character Jack Ryan gives the president a formula for diffusing a sensitive situation. In the movie a close friend of the pres. was killed while transporting drugs. So Ford (Ryan) says " If they ask you if you were friends, say you were close friends; if they ask if you were close friends, say you were intimate friends. Just don't give them anywhere to go!" I got to try out this formula at my job a few years back. For a six month period, I worked side by side with this babe...I mean...WOW!!! Wasn't a problem concentrating with loud machinery around and, yes, there was some very time sensitive WORK to do as well. But in the break room the other guys started giving me the business about it. So I just said I was sure this girl dreamed about fat, bald, forty plus year old 'studs' like me. End of business. I guess there's a point where you just have to be a good sport. So you guys can roll me in flour and aim for the wet spot any old time, heh heh.

I think it was Roseanne Barr who said that only the male mind could conceive of one inch equalling 100 miles.

I play guitar. I owned an electric guitar for awhile, but acoustic seems to be better for me. I couldn't play lead to save my life. Sometimes I wish I could play drums. I saw Rush in 1996 and I swear everywhere I looked there were air drummers.

Mike: Good topic. I am at my computer. I am also in Romans 1. All the epistles begin with who it's from (Paul) and immediately into who it's to EXCEPT Romans. Who it's from is in verse one. Who it's to is in verse 7. There is a disclaimer in verses 2-6 which applies to ALL the epistles; said disclaimer is SO on topic. It says Jesus Christ was... a) made of the seed of David according to the FLESH. b) declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the SPIRIT of holiness ...two completely different standards. It doesn't say declared to be the son of God according to the flesh. Add to that list religion/true Christianity. VPW said "spiritually I've seen 4 things in life: religion, no religion, corrupt religion, and true Christianity." Religious people judge themselves, other people, and God after the flesh and then they turn around and call it spiritual. Those folks will NEVER understand. You've repeated that the bible is flesh and the Word of God is spirit, yet they keep assuming that if it isn't scripture it isn't the Word of God. There is no physical description of any kind given about Jesus Christ. We don't know how tall he was, what color his hair and eyes were, what his voice sounded like, what his mannerisms were, nothing! We don't know him after the flesh. Must be OK, huh?

It means omnipresently. Got me curious.

This is the first time I've been on this thread since it was a sprat of 150 posts so I haven't read all of it, but a friend gave me a CD which has six different live versions of Grateful Dead's China Cat Sunflower into I know you rider...and I love it. Those guys had a big stereotype to live up to but they cranked out some good stuff. Anybody hear anything specific about them in TWI? Like possessed, wrong seed, devil worship? Just curious.

Evan: The idea that the "unforgivable sin" is simply to reject Christ doesn't make sense to me. It says no forgiveness in this world or that which is to come. There has to be something people can do before dying that would exempt them from salvation, otherwise why would it say neither in this world nor that which is to come? I agree that thinking about this topic too much genders a lot of evil thinking and all the other stuff we're not sposed to do per 1 Cor. 13.

Goey: What you said about the devil can't create permanent seed etc.? I'm listening, but in Matt.12:31&32 it says 'not forgiven in this world or in that which is to come'. Granted it doesn't say anything about a wrong seed or a trap door being permanently wedged open, but it does seem to say it's possible to still be breathing and be able to do something that will prevent the possibility of ever getting saved. What say you? (parallel records in Mark 3:28&29 and Luke 12:10) I mean, if this is possible, wouldn't such a person have a unique potential to oppose God's people or would they just be screwed for eternity but just like everybody else other than that?

Let's see...in order of my remembrance. Mick Jagger Pope Paul VI Barbara Streisand all members of Kiss Pope John Paul II Ayatolla Ruholla Khomeini (sp) Ted Patrick John Denver Loretta Lynn Pete Rose Pablo Picasso Mohammed Ali Steven Spielberg Marilyn Monroe Abner Doeg the Edomite Jezebel Cain The fourth miserable comforter in Job Tobiah the Ammonite Sanballat the whatever Phineas Hophni There was also a retraction. Seems Ali changed seeds somewhere. July '84 he was wrong seed, and spring of '95 he had switched. Don't know how he pulled it off; must have been phenomena. I still believe in the concept, but only met ONE regular non celebrity person I ever thought might qualify. It was weird; he was in a laundromat and I just got this creepy feeling being around him.

The shining. Back in the 60's I saw a movie called the haunting of hill house with Julie Harris, but in recent times it's the shining hands down. I've seen the reanimator, eww, and all three texas chainsaw movies, #2 was as much a comedy as horror. Dennis Hopper, too cool. Saw a 60's movie called the wizard of gore. Know of a case where this guy took his girl to see it and she wasn't his girl afterward. Those mark of the devil movies are pretty intense.

My vote is for Gimme shelter/Stones. From the first time I listened to it to today, that riff is so gripping. Also for those of you who have seen the movie song remains the same/Led Zep, did you notice that...OK, first song is Rock and Roll, then Page plays that riff from bring it on home, Then they do Black dog. Why did Page play just that riff but not the whole song? My guess is...Black dog is one of few rock and roll songs that doesn't have a musical intro; it goes right into the lyrics, therefore Robert Plant need to get his pitch. If you're a jr high/ high school choir the director can just pull out a pitch pipe and give each voice their note, but if you're Led Zeppelin? Uh, definite image problem there, so the last note of the riff from Bring it on home is the first note of Black dog. Ingenious! As far as songs go that don't start with music, I saw Styx do Renegade few years back, but it was the first song of their encore, so Tommy Shaw could have gotten his note by turning down the guitar a bit and hitting it seconds before they walked back on stage.

The politics is even smellier than that. If you are religious, you found out TWI was a cult from trinitarians/ if you're not religious, you found out TWI was a cult from the media. The trinitarian's explanation is obvious, but the media's explanation is most hypocritical. If you go to TWI and are taught that JC isn't God, etc. this is "MIND CONTROL"! If you go to the catholic church and are taught as a small child that if you ever leave the church you burn in hell forever, this is NOT mind control! LOL!

Rottiegirl: Oh, yes. I see some hypocrisy there. How about this? If you don't believe JC is God, you're a 'cult', right? Yet, Jews and Moslems don't believe that; Moslems believe he was a prophet and Jews believe he was a deceiver. Neither believe he's God. So which of these 'cult experts' is going to actually come out and admit that they really believe Jews and Moslems are 'cults', too? Can anyone say 'hell freezes over'? It's all politics; the word 'cult' is a bigot slur like any other. It's only acceptable because the people in these 'cults' are perceived to be too small and powerless to fight back with any impact just like black people were perceived to be 50-100 yrs ago. I'll ask one question in two different ways: #1 - If I'm a cult and I never change what I believe, how much time, how much net worth, and how many members must I accumulate before I'm not a cult anymore? #2 - If I'm the Roman Catholic Church, how many children must my priests molest before I become a cult?