Too Gray Now

But, hey - what do I know?? WOW 3 times, Way Corps, State Coord. of .... I wouldn't buy it again, either.

Simon – you go bro! In the “world”, if someone buys a product, maintains it, cares for it, and has 25 years of experience in using it – and THEN would “NEVER BUY THAT P.O.S. AGAIN” would the Consumer Repots look at that as a product success or a product failure? Somehow, Mike can’t believe that a product failure is even possible – so it HAS to be a dumb-axx consumer failure… The product should be made with enough “features” that when put in the hands of the TARGET CONSUMERS (those who want to believe), then it should work for the VAST majority of the target market. I mean this is what the world expects. Shoot. PFAL is not even a good product by worldly standards!... 95+% of the consumers would NOT buy it again. If we ever start a thread of “Consumer Reports” on the way international’s stuff, SIMON and IGOT OUT should be considered TOP evaluators.

quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are you drawing a line in the sand (of sorts) effectively trying to pit yourself against me? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, it is sort of an odd question. The way you said it. Does this candidate belive in my God? - you ask... Frick, I don't know. What are you tyring to say?? So I did not answer... your challenge... which I can not EVEN perceive as a challange. Dude... chill. I am not trying to word-fight... or "logic" (yours) fight... Just responding. After reading some other posts, it appears that you MAY (not saying you DO) have a reputation for being argumentative for the beneift of self. So, if you want to argue notions that you do not hold... go ahead. I thought you wanted to see what else spurred in people's minds after listening to your link... Its like the old Monty Python skit. "I want to have an argument... No you don't. (the other, retorts) ... This is merely contradiction - this is NOT an argument." So what are you looking for, Garth... ? Agreement? An Argument?, Mere Contridiction? You have puzzled me with your motives. Forget your topic, for now.

Garth… just a couple of things… “I dare you”??? Are you drawing a line in the sand (of sorts) effectively trying to pit yourself against me? Are you a former Terryton Cigarette smoker? (You would rather fight than switch)? If so... then Sorry dude. Not me. No fight from me. I think BOTH people of faith and people of “non-faith” count in America... the same. I don’t fear either “group”. I do not think that either group has cornered the market on being particularly self-righteous, either. I think either group is capable of horrible atrocities… in the name of their... whatever. Now, how to avoid THAT outcome. The way Harvey suggests? Keep your (faith or non-faith) to yourself and we will all be fine. So how would his message really play out? In real life? Yes, he did “seem to say” what I suggested – not IN his statement, but in HOW it tends to play out in real life. He IMPLIED that by keeping faith/belief/God/ out of the government – then it stays out of the laws. It stays out of our courts, out of our schools, out of our “public” lives. With me so far? Notice, I said IMPLIED… very important word, there. (The words, “separation of church and state” never show up in the constitution, either… but we have INFERED that meaning based upon the IMPLICATIONS of the language.) The entire clip was dedicated to the notion that a condition of “faith/non-faith” should be PERSONAL and PRIVATE – not PUBLIC. “If you don’t ram God down my throat, then I will leave you alone and won’t tell you that the emperor has no clothes.” (Which I am all for, by the way.) His supposition seems to be that we can have private beliefs (faith) that will not impact – or “leak out” - into our government. Nice thing to want… but in real life… I think he is smoking pixy dust. Over time, the dirt comes out. Take the issue of Slavery. Slavery came back (even though it was widely recognized as a deal breaker at the time of the deceleration of independence. So we fought the bloodiest war of our history over the idea… later – but it still came back) Segregation. That came back to haunt us. VPW’s and LCM’s crap came out in the end… Hitler’s Jews came back out of the grave, etc. etc. etc. We can not SILENCE the voices by saying… (or killing – like MLK) those who the other may think should have no place in government. It comes BACK (like a bad movie). My analysis of your clip is, purely contemporary commentary. Not BAD, just won’t work in real life. We gotta find a way to accept all. Not by law – but by common decency.

What if Martin Luther King lived in Harvey’s version of America, today…. His speech would have been re-named “I had a dream, but they wouldn’t let me talk about it on TV”. Yes, he would have had to say something like… “I have a THEORY…. A theory that all men are created equal by their creator – but I have no scientific basis for that statement (and neither did the Founding Fathers of this pathetic nation!!!)… and since I am trying to get legislation enacted in America, I can NOT appeal to the authority of God – I must appeal to the mind of the scientific man! I appeal to science!!” I can almost hear some talking-head pundit, “We applaud the Rev. King’s desire to keep his religion out of the spotlight! His statements will need a thorough, scientific study to conclude if what he is saying is factually, accurate. Until then, he has rightly recognized that his words are actually words of faith – and as such are dangerous!! Built on superstition, and quotes from the Bible - his message hearkens to many of his “uneducated, simple minded followers”… The pundit continues: “Words of faith, used to be important to the individual citizen… but today, thankfully, they have NO place in our scientific and enlightened country – which, by the way, is finally on the march to be free FROM all religion!” I can almost hear the closing swoon song, - by John Lennon - Imagine… what a grand society we all could have, if we could just free ourselves from the opiate of the masses… and confine this dastardly, drunken notion of “faith” to the private halls of the unmentionables. This is an imaginary America – the one where facts rule, and faith is gone. But, make no mistake about it, it is a very real part of America. So what is the real America? Part of us still embrace Dr. King’s original speech and some would shout him down today as trying to push his religion on the nation. We are part of America, too. What scares the cr_p out of me are mass movements that seem to say – “SILENCE THAT VOICE… in the name of GOD… or in the name of SCIENCE!!!” If we are willing to legislate so as to silence the voices of faith or dissent in the American political system, then we are the willing assassins of our own freedom.

George, good points about communism becoming the religion of ruling elite. So often, rulers are full of it (meaning their ability to articulate the unseen which is hoped for… and thereby mobilize the faith many). History is replete with examples. We know many of them as the thugs and tyrants of the ages… but they appear in another form, as well – those who do good. Dr. King was such a person. The Civil Rights movement was a mass movement of those who heard and held a dream. The bigotry in America stood in stark contrast to the dream that King fleshed out with mere words. When I listened to the link that Garth put up, Harvey so aptly seemed to say; “You can have your beliefs in God, but keep them out of my country!” Sounds contemporary. Sounds like what many think is the virtue of America. But is it? Is it virtuous and is it American???

Sky 4 - here is an example of what I mean by stretching and considering the framework of what I understand to be truth. "Perfect love casts out fear" So - if fear exists, then there is not perfect love. No great revelation in that one - I think we all have considered that one before. BUT BUT What if Only perfect love exists in the kingdom of God (which is within)... then if there is fear... it is produced by a state that porjects itself as an image... but in TRUTH does not exist. So what is truth?? I would like to start by asking, how do we "choose" what we think is "true". Think of Jesus walking on the water, and Peter too. Remember the story...? Fear and love met that night. And perfect love won. As it always will. Peter beheld perfect love and he beheld fear. So for a while... there was no fear. We call it a miracle. But was it really??? Wasn't it just truth having its way?

Nope… not buying that one anymore, either…TWOGITWOG. Too many holes in that puppy. I don’t think we ought to be buying our truth or searching for it in pieces – like an ala-carte menu – or a train wreck... like we did for all those years in TWI. Bit by bit... we built a pile of _ _ _ _ The Way did not fail because VP could not keep his PP in Pants (A typical WOW admonition, BTW). And I do not mean to diminish the suffering of those who were victims... not at all. It did not fail because LCM could only scream against homos and the RC church… nope. Not because he was the "Wrong" guy - either. It failed because it was NOT the TRUTH. We may have thought it was… I got some truth out of it… kept me from totally wasting my life on... on … whatever… - and for that - I am thankful to God - but it was not THE truth. We gotta let truth change – because we are searchers … The DANGER exists when we think we got it figured out!! As I sort through what I believe, I must adjust to the following… Nothing real can be - threatened, and nothing unreal - exists.

What is Truth? Ya know, been a while for me sayin' anything. But this topic holds some possibilities. We were sold a smorgasbord of truth in TWI. I, for one, bought it. But what did truth consist of to WAYFER and would I buy it again, today? Today? nope. Not at all. Some basic ideas about truth that we used to hold need to be examined. Like… 1. Why is truth a "What"? (I am familiar with the concept of a noun – before anyone starts to lecture me…? ) I mean could it not be some other type of noun and still be “truth”? 2. Did not Jesus give us a hint that he thought "it" was a "Whom"?? (Himself, to be precise) 3. And what about the idea of Source – You know… Where? If the Devil or God is the source of a statement - like "Thou shalt not surely die" - "Where" did Adam get his information? So we all sort of held the idea that truth had a lot to do about “where” it came from… so much so… that we bought into the MOGFOT idea far too easily (by the way that election God already voted – the winner for Man of God for All time was Jesus). 4. Then of course we have “When” – The correct administration of “truth”. All of a sudden “time” (which is NOT supposed to be an element of truth in almost all discussions about it) is included in the mix as to whether or not something is “true”. Yes? Keys to interpret the Bible, from Bullinger. 5. The Greatest Secret in the World Today, is that the Bible is the Revealed Word and Will of God…. (read – it is the ONLY source of truth). Too bad… I guess Jesus should have sent the printing press on the day of Pentecost instead of the spirit.

As has been my Modus Operandi, I read these posts, then a story is stirred in my memory, and a post pops out. Like a toaster with a broken plunger…sometimes, it just does what it wants to do. :)--> As I was reading SirGuess’ post – I saw many glimmers. Here is one. This is fascinating, to me – but possibly for a different reason. Had a discussion just a few days ago with a friend of mine. Let me tell you the story of “Spiritual Science”. Years ago, there was a man who studied and experimented at one of our noted National Laboratories. Both curious and gifted in the abilities of critical thought, he was a fascinating individual, a noted scientist by training and profession. He reached into “fringe” areas (assuming there were things he could not see or measure that were affecting his experiments). He allowed his mind to entertain the great unknowns (or the “near-spiritual”) as a way to develop his postulates and experiments for unseen and unexplained forces. As a result, his research probed the very limits of scientific perception in the 1970s – certainly beyond the plodding, incremental turtle-pace of those who refused to stray more than 1 step from the verifiable. His fellow researchers were chained to baby-step proofs, inspired by miniscule assumptions – always keeping their hand on the prior-proof - they reached, (reluctantly) in fear that IF they should have the boldness to “let go”, they would certainly forsake their altar of the “absolute”. But he was not so chained. He was a man of nearly infinite curiosity. As a physicist, he explored such grand unexplainable notions as “love”. He observed through verifiable means, that sub-atomic particles responded – behaved, (“felt” if you will) human emotional energies. For his boldness to assert such a thing, and to demonstrate the results through the use of an electron microscope, he was ostracized. But he was heard… by an Eclectic Christian who attended one of his lectures. This man was interested in the power of spoken words, spoken by spiritual inspiration. And this scientist’s statement about the power of love forever changed this man’s course. I am friends with the Eclectic man of whom I write and echo his recent statement. “You know, science is more likely to reveal the evidence of the things of God than Theology. The Church had a great chance to discover spiritual realities – but instead went the route of trying to explain the very God, Himself – rather than the realities of the spiritual world.” Science, is definitely an underling. Theology’s claim of explaining God rather than the things of God, is ill-founded. And people argue about theology, while many of the realties of the gifts from God lay waiting to be uncovered. It is a wonderful world out there…if you want to see it that way. ;)-->

Roy: I heard every word! JesusFreaky: I would be honored to sit in a booth with you! Since you already asked… let me see – How does Jesus/God Feel to me? Like the “Real Deal”. Allow me to try and elaborate. There was a time when I was past feeling anything that was truly “real” (about 12 years ago… just ask Mrs. Too Gray – she’ll tell ya!). I came back to God to get some answers after TWI. And what did I get? Answers? Sort of. Most of the answers I got were mostly in the form of questions. But His questions and the results of listening to them fixed things in my chest that had been deeply broken during my Way days. Christ in us – his spirit, knows what the reality of a “thing” - feels like… I had to learn to feel reality by watching how I felt in response to his questions. You can see this in the scriptures – this ability He has to feel-out the motives and give you a question designed to heal you. Like when he said “Why callest thou me, good?” What was the man’s motive in calling him “Good” Master? Just Sucking up? Earn a brownie point or two? Lay a trap for Jesus – while appearing to blend in with the other “followers”? Jesus uncovered him, in an instant. And in that instant – the man was given a chance to feel. And what he felt, was the reality of his own heart laid open. Jesus drew him out with a question. We all have motives. His questions filleted me like the heart of a head of a thistle blossom – without damaging the surface (because that stuff changes, naturally). At times I had nothing to say, just ponder what I saw. And that is where he does his best work. Righteousness has a feeling… and so does self-righteousness. They often look very similar on the surface, but at the heart, they are entirely different. Motive is at the root - and so is the feeling that “fathered” the act. Being brought back and numbered with the emotionally living has been like a re-birth. “All I know is - that I was once blind, but now I see.” Feeling the real deal is like true love. You know it when it happens to you.

SirGuess’s thread of An Interpretation of Tongues - seems to have spurred an inner dialogue... of tongues of the heart. I like that it has become a thread of trying to say what we want to say… without explaining ourselves. Having the chance to come and talk about these things at a heart/spiritual level is like… "It's like having a table off in the corner...” " only those who want to "go there", come over and sit for a while”. Colleen: I would like to get back to you later on your question. You have opened a huge door for discussion… :)--> to discuss the feelings that happen after (or during) a spiritual “Christ visit”. :)--> Huge! I mean really huge!!! (Ever noticed that the feelings are more unforgettable than the words or pictures spoken? Of course. sorry….) And Ex… "Me, too". It is beyond the emotion icons we are given. Some time ago, (when I first started coming here to the GSC) you said you would love to hear about my beliefs… I declined your offer at that time. But, I can see how you and the GS folks are VERY considerate. Sorry I declined your offer at that time. And..Krys... I hear ya... When I read your post, I wanted to sit - and - feel - and - think - and - see - what the "Christ-man inside" of me might contribute to the soup-du jour that is brewing… Some GREAT stuff in your post… pages and pages of things you inspired in my heart!! Memories. Visitations. My Mom. A generational history with spiritual things… I am beginning to think that this thread may come out as if it were extruded, like 5 cloves of garlic through a garlic press... none the same – but all from the same head.

To All: I just re-read all of these "What Jesus Looks Like to me..." posts... They are really cool! Almost like a new "Psalm" - because these are the things written on our hearts. :)--> Yup... the Pizzaria is open. People are servin' it up!

Square Peg, I see darkly from time to time, too. If it ain't workin' - then it ain't workin'. :)--> I needed a LOT of PERSONAL help to get started in this area of hearing and seeing. But I later realized that needing a LOT of help is common for many people. General Info, here. Check this out, sometime. http://www.cwgministries.org/Four-Keys-to-...-Gods-Voice.htm I purchased several books by this author on recommendation from our pastor at the time (about 11 years ago). I got into it. (Like most stuff I do..) About 10 of us traveled by invitation from other churches to help people get "activated" in this area. We had some great times together! It was a way to reach out to others and help them with seeing and hearing. Although the book helped many, many people, most needed some one-on-one help. I know that Mark Virkler is BIG into doing the basics (be well established in a church, etc. be under spiritual covering, etc.) For many people, I think this is excellent, safe advice. Maybe for some reading this thread, his books might be one of the pieces. I live 1,300 miles form that church, now. But I still have the benefits of those people opening their hearts and sharing what they had to give with me. At this stage in my life, I surround myself with those who also see and hear. And that is one of the pieces of the puzzle, as well. They are out there. Can this stuff be abused? Sure! And I have seen it first hand, too. (But I don't know anything that can't be). I have seen thsoe who are "spiritual covering" who use this stuff to control people... but after being in TWI, we know what that looks like, for sure. --> Before you fly, make sure you got all the stuff you need before you try and take off.

Good question JF - In my journals I usually make note of the "mood" he is in (if he happens to be "on-stage" at the time) ;)--> He is capable of Many Diversified Demeanors I have known him to be very, Patient Upset Peaceful Concerned Disengaged with his surroundings Encouraging Animated Fixated on something I could not see… Gracious Considerate Apparent to some, and invisible to others… Deeply moved with a singleness of heart and emotion like nothing I have ever seen with my own two eyes... and (BTW) He is also a great dancer and the BEST body guard you could ever have. :)--> To me, he never looks/appears the same way twice - because for me, that is important that I see him that way. Does that make sense? Maybe not to you - but it sure does if you know me. He will be what he needs to be. Because it matters what you believe and which path you take when you come to a cross-roads. These different perceptions of him helped break the ignorance and denial I had about emotions. Part of "saving" 'ole' TGN, meant he had to re-wire how I would deal with feelings. He is the consumate physician. He has a "treatment" program designed for each person... to make us whole. Sometimes (in a specific area) it happens in the blink of an eye... sometimes, he works it out without you even being aware of it.

I'm like a kid in a candy store!! :D--> SirGuess said: He is in people... you see them on the train, on the plane, in the line, .... Like a mystery, it unfolds.

So here is yet another "piece" of it... About Questions – (And “Delayed” Answers): Listening to the answer that happens to be a question – is a very big part of learning. At least it hits a very rich chord with me when I think of life. Children learn to learn by asking questions. The answers only have to be good enough for the moment (not lies, but not the theory of Relativity, either). For most kids, “enough” is “enough” when it helps them to move on. I find that oftentimes the only right answer in a given situation is “a question”. This frustrates us adults when we start to learn, again, as if we were a child. We have been conditioned to think as if we were children in school, again - that the answer is the BIG deal. But it is not. The answer almost doesn’t matter – it is the process (Differential Calculus, anyone?). It really is the process of getting there that trains the eye. Ever read a book with a 5 year old called “Where’s Waldo?” or have you ever completed (in one sitting) one of those cool “I SPY” books with a child? I am convinced those books help you to see. They help you to question what you are seeing. They help you to press in. They help you to deal with the learning involved in seeking. Most people think that learning happens at the point when you get the answer… and the quicker you get it, the better! How can that be? I mean if that were true, then all these books should be EASY - just make you turn a page, and then BAM - there would be NOTHING else on it except Waldo. Instant gratification. Instant learning. Instant Answer. No extraneous stuff to sift through… Just a quick, PLAIN, easy to interpret answer. But life (and those books) seem to lead us to a different conclusion. We are to help one another see. And it is a process. And it takes time. Here is a recent example: Just the other day, a young friend of my daughter was standing by one of large windows and in an instant ! Just 3 feet from the window! A Red Shouldered Hawk swooped down, and snagged an early, spring snake. Then he flew to a nearby limb and dealt with his catch. Very cool. Four of the five of us said “Did you see THAT!!?” We “oooed” and “ahhed” and exclaimed… but the youngest didn’t see it happen nor could she locate the bird on its perch only some 25 feet from the window. For her, it did not “happen”. She was getting more and more frustrated and felt left out. One of my daughters said, “See that closest tree?” She said yes. “Now, follow the trunk up with your eyes and when you come to the second branch, look to the left. Do you see it, now?” She said no. So I took my hands and said – “Here. Let me steer your head.” She then smiled wide and said… “Oh – coooooolll!” I am a lot like that child. It takes time to develop a sense of seeing, looking, finding. It takes time to develop the questions that allow you to see, like SirGuess, said. Prior answers often become the anchor that sinks questions we have now – if you get my drift. Self absorption – holding on to what we were taught… staying faithful…. all of this is pretty strong glue and holds-fast the blinders that shield our eyes. Its like your neck gets fused or welded into one place and you can’t see the world any other way. Blinded by prior answers. If we actually required our eyes to see that way… (glued to what we saw, yesterday) we would never find Waldo. Because on the last page, he was… over there… and on this page… (Like my youngest said once…) “I guess they forgot to put him in”. Oh, the beauty of a learning child has so much to tell us about how we learn to see, spiritually!

SirGuess,... gotta hand it to ya - You say IT... but I just talk about a pieceof IT.

Square Peg: The Power's That Be... is that the book by Walter Wink? I looked it up on Amazon, Sounds interesting.

SigGuess - Excuse me while I go get another flour sack and scoop some of this up and take it home! :D--> Roy - I always enjoy watching someone reach. Thanks for sharing. One word: Crossroads. The wife and I were talking about this just yesterday. Say-on SirGuess...

Gee, Ex (And Sir Guess), I appear to have stuck a fork through the heart of this thread... :(--> Killing a thread is much easier for me than keeping one going! :o--> I wondered if folks thought "That TGN... he is over there talking like he has all this stuff figured out. Who does he think he is, anyway? He is blind leading the blind. He has no answers." I do know this much, the great topics of life rarely get talked about in such a public forum. And I gravitate towards those who want to discuss, rather than debate. I wish there were more who wanted to come forward and discuss some of this stuff. I am quite sure that most of what I wrote, is - at best - partial knowledge. The other stuff, is probably just pain off in left field. I remember reading Emerson: "To be great, is to be mis-understood". (No inference here being made of personal greatness). I got to thinking about God. Talk about being mis-understood! If His ways are not our ways, etc... then just how much do we REALLY think we understand, anyway? Most of this stuff is what I have learned after I thought I knew. So, on this, my second go around, (Like you Ex.. to Hell and Back – twice) I am not as naive as I used to be. Like Sir Guess said in one post, “Are you ready to debate this stuff…? ‘Cause I’m not.” Me neither. I claim very little “full light”. Just trying to interpret what I THINK I understand. Trying to interpret my own tongue that wags in my own heart. Just ‘talkin’. Ya know? But it looks like I'm talking to myself. A sure sign of mental illness. ;)--> Best to all.

Hi Ex!~ Good to see your tangled hair around here, again! I got tangled hair, too. BTW, Just knowing that you are around and maybe getting something out of it is "saying something". I appreciate it. And Roy: I loved it!! "...a holy breath sun burn" :D--> Amen to that. Living under the shade of the scriptures is fine if you have sensitive skin, like that of a baby... but we were made to be able to take direct sunlight... I think our eyes get accustomed to seeing in the shade (a drkness/light mix). Then when we venture out, we need those sunglasses that wrap around to stop the light from the side from spilling in. Some of the stuff I stick in these posts kind of came from the periphery vision... you know. Not on center - but part of the picture for sure.

Roy... Sorry about posting on top of you.. I was just cutting and pasting... So here's to Mud in your Eye ;)--> I hope my 9-11 thing is seen for what it is supposed to be... an illustration of brother killing brother. This is an understandable problem. There is no line between THEM and US. There is evil that happens when we draw lines that God do not draw. We (Christians) cut them off from Christ.... in the 4th century... We called them UNBELIEVERS because they refused to accept that Jesus was God. So they split. Now they are back. We had NO Right to cut them off from the gift of Christ. Christ was NOT our gift to give. Christ was God's gift to the world! I tell ya, Roy... we (as "the church") really screwed that one up...

Part 4: In vain the fowler’s net is spread in view of the bird’s eye. Without darkness, all deceptions would be ended. Total absence of light does not “create” darkness – NOTHING lives without light. Darkness collapses under its own weight, so as to speak. But in the hearts of the captives, darkness can be driven out. Deception is one of the first vestiges that must be rooted out by THE light. One of the greatest deceptions of all time is that we are justified and acceptable to God by our works. This deception alone caused the first born son of Adam to become a murder of his brother. The “thing” that inspired Cain in the Garden, is with us today. It lives not only in the terrorists; it lives in many Christians, as well. And we are the ones giving it life and honor... we honor this evil with our very works! Ironic... yes? Well, if God ALREADY reconciled the world unto Himself by Jesus Christ… then this is the reality. There remains no work to do to be acceptable to God. None. Zippo. Notta. Our “light” is not in and of ourselves… (like Lucifer thought), and our acceptance does not come because of our works… (like Cain thought). Christ is the light of life – not works. He is the light of the world. This is reality. The Christians say “YOU have to believe it… and then YOU have to act like it, or else… you GO TO HELL. Repent!!” For them, it is a perception VS reality problem. In God’s eyes, evil looks a little different… ya know…? Nothing is as it appears. The physical world is but an appearance... it is not the stuff that is behind it. So evil, light, behavior... all of it... is not as it appears. These parallel present "worlds" are intertwined. 9-11 was just another Brother killing his brother... Christ is the light that we need to see. People should quit blaming the unbelievers... or the devil... they whould look within... and see if the light of their life is the light of Christ. ...Ok... My batteries have run down... I will stop now :D-->

Part 3: Deception can be traced to a faulty perception. This should be of no surprise to anyone. Lucifer became full of pride, about his beauty, his eyes became puffed-shut with self importance and he deceived himself. He thought he WAS the light. (Again, a perception VS reality problem). He thought he could be a creator; his light could sustain not only himself, but an entire universe. He convinced others to follow him. He deceived them as well. But with what did he deceive them – with his darkness???? Nope. With his light! His “Good” works! His pride may be considered to be full of darkness - but it could not extinguish his light. So he used the light and his darkness together. (Oversimplified, I know… but just try and hang with me a bit longer) :)--> There are many different lights in the world. In Lucifer’s case, we can see that God’s light – if mixed with “self-light” or pride (good works, beauty, strength and honor) (which form the bricks and mortar of deception) - it can grow that sphere of deception in influence. This “growth of deception” increases the power of darkness. Gee.. do we REALLY want to push this works-version of Christianity Over the World?? :(--> Mere angels became an extension of his own darkness – So how did Lucifer enlist so many? He deceived them with light and he hid his darkness under a cloak of self-light. Consider this in terms of our great cry of “We know we are Christians because WE do… such and such”. This is not the light of Christ... this is the same self-light of deception.