Too Gray Now

I think this might have "GreaseSpot Gems" written on it.

Rascal, Yup.. Me too! I got kids. Willthey face a different Cult Leader? I don't think so. Because they have heard my stories, I am thinking their CF (cult filter) is up and working. I am a die hard man of faith... in that I look for... THE city. (the city whose builder and maker is God, which is filled with Peace and love, etc...) But I am also Too Gray. It ain't gonna happen!! Nice thing... But... Frankly, if I give up on the POSSIBILITY that we can love one another... Life is not worth living. So I am A Good prospect for a cult... even now, I guess :o-->

All this that y'all are saying seems so, so - well clear to me now. So why was I so dad-gummed blind then?? Is it possible that love is REALLY blind? That we loved the bible and each other enough that we just "didn't see" or "wouldn't look at" anything that was WAY OUT OF WACK.? That stuff in Timothy kind of lets you know that human nature hasn't changed much... Cult leaders are easy to spot - if you are not in their cult. Seems like Heaven's Gate, Charles Manson, WACO, New Knoxville, etc. Seems like so many of these people couldn't "spot' what they were in.

Cultype leaders are great at the big, untouchable picture. setting an absolute. a test of of substitution (usually, obedience to the leader means obedience to God) inserting themselves as a stand in for approval and acceptance (if you pass their test, it is the same as passing God's test) People are attracted through their getting (and giving) some sense of Eternal hope and or soul saving - so we are doing something to improve the world!!! They ALWAYS want you to be on the "good side" of the big Guy upstairs. Which is done by Some sort of Pleasing works So the works are a form of acceptance. The accepted are defined as "few" - and YOU!!! have been given the chance to be REALLY accepted!!! Household RULES! DON"T BLOW IT!!! See the fact that most of us feel "stupid" or sense a lack of Knowing - We see someone like VP and we think... "I Want the kind of relationship that this guy has with GOD!!" So we stoop to imimitation. We become Cult "Mini-me" leaders, ourselves. So how do you spot a Cult Leader? (I do not have hardly any time to post, but thought it might make for an interesting topic :)-->)

Suz... Sorry it didn't work out - but you know what it is like, traveling these days... - :(--> Hey, but it was great to hear your voice, again. You sound like your young self, to me!! Anyway, I should probably have told Mrs. Too Gray that I was trying to hook up with you. She was pretty suprised to get a call from you using your married name - she did not recognize you, at all... our conversation went something like this after I hung up the phone with you; "So who is this woman trying to meet my husband after hours... in Chicago... HMMMM??? That he neglected to tell me about!!" LOL After 27 years of marriage I said, "Honey, I told you all about her... she is the one I used to sleep with, you know, like my Sister..." She said, "Oh!! Her! I hope you get to meet up!" Now, you see, only a cult or a commune could have produced such a situation as this

Hey, SUZ!! Noticed that you are in IL, yes, no?? Or is your flight crew just based out of ORD? Anyway, I gota go to CHI-Town, tomorrow and my business dinner date just canceled... so if you are stuck at the airport about 6:30pm - wanna meet for some deep dish? Of course, you gotta clear this with GEO - but shoot!! I never did anything with ya I couldn't post in an open forum.

laleo, you said... You certainly described the whole thing very well :)--> Someone talked about getting your new church funded - I think it was Flip Wilson who used to play the part of the Pastor Leroy of the "Church of What's Happenin' NOW!" He said stuff like, "You can't gamble, because you MIGHT loose! Amen! And if you Loose, then that means you will want to play again to win it ALL back - and THEN Some!!! That leads to vengance, and vengance and lust is a powerful, powerful, sin combination!!!" "Save that gamblin' money and put it in the collection plate!!" "The Lord givith... ... and the Church of What's Happenin' Now - taketh away!"

Race - ism Sex - ism Tao - ism ...most "isms" have a bad rap IMO when (or if) they make themselves MONO - isms. We should be not like milk, homogenized – but, like milk, BEFORE it is homogenized... its all there, in one place… - its just not MONO milk or Hetro Milk – or even tri- milk or tertiary milk - or some other ilk of milk ;)--> I think Sirguress is saying, at least in part, is more an idea of "inclusion" without "amalgamation" or the parts becoming homogenized...

Def, Help me out with this one... I read it several times. I can only surmise that I think I know what you said, but I am not sure if what you said is what you meant... I know I have argued with my wife on occasion, and have found that we were arguing two entirely different points than what each other thought. Don't wanna do that, here :D-->

Song - a GREAT story! I mean - really... being able to hear a criket... is very cool.

Hey, Vert... Glad that the pumper is back on line :)--> :)--> Don't mean to trivialize, either. I see a great example in what you said... Your "heart" needed to know what YOU believed. I know we have been asking scholars for centuries what they believe, and what they think, and then we are supposed to just "adopt" it. Your wine… is always FINE. And I totally agree with SirGuess on this, as well. I am not offended by those who went before me… And I glean their fields, with regularity. Without the shoulders of their past, to stand upon, my present would be required to complete their past. I bow and salute them all. Rather, I want to single out the notion that God is not speaking to each of us. BALONEY. If He did not… your pumper would be stopped. What you believe matters little to anyone else,… except YOU. And it matters to God. God speaks to us from the heavens... in us... now... so heaven is - within us as well. (was this last statement a gratuitous pander to the thread topic, or what?!)

SirGuess... As I so often do, I want to emphasize a word you used. Yup, Physics. Probably will be the un-doing of religion and science - all at the same time. For it at least recognizes that the NEW of NOW is better than the OLD of THEN. Physics, the String Theory, The String Theory for instance... is like the “new wine” that we are pressing out. Who wants a drink??!! The Bible Literalists? Probably, not. They want to taste that old-time religion moonshine. :D--> Theology is a dead language, today, IMO. It speaks using past syllables. Visions of old. Dreamers, they were - prophetic they were, too. Then. But today, we use the old, their prophecies, to try and fill our hungry bellies as if it were “new drink”… and why do we feel compelled to do that? Biblically, I used to be like one of those hoydy-toydy wine tasting snobs who critique the fact that the “Smokey cherry , oak-tones are over-powering to the nose on this Merlot... but the palette senses a subtler presence of ….” … crap! AHH! We were Trained to be “theologians” - we were told to LICK the words of OLD - and get their flavors in order to gain an “in depth spiritual perception and awareness” and carry this childish lollipop with me into adulthood… like a spiritual Kojak! :)--> My palette was being trained to spit my personal spiritual wine into a bucket as if it were valueless… because it did not have the right “oak tannins that so wonderfully color the nose…” I mean, really… how many people, today think that THEIR wine is THEIR drink?? Nope. Many continue to lick the drips of moisture from past “new wine” and are taught to believe it is enough to quench thirst of today. We ARE in the current heaven, NOW! What we taste and sense had better be a “new” wine. I do like wine. But I shun wine snobs…. In every dimension. It may be time to declare, that the best wine, is the new wine. The physicists have at least figured this much out. ;)-->

Hey, SirG, that is it. If the kingdom of God is within, and we want to see it... then I think what you said might be the statement of the "bloody obvious" (as the British might say) :)--> And it might get a bit bloody if we did so OK, seriously... now (((this is me trying to gain my composure))) Actually, when the inards come out, and we wear them like a coat (of many colors), it either grosses out the carnal, or it acts like pheromones to the ones who hear His voice. Yup. Anyone for an inside/out party?

Goey made a statement, some posts back, that was on my mind when I woke up after my nap... (shortly after my mobile stopped turning and my swing-o-matic ran down). He said, What if, the "what" regarding heaven is rather dependant on where and when we are talking about it? Now, I mean this - not in a spurious way, - but seriously, have we considered it from that point of view? (Pardon me while I drive this anology into the ground -->) See, when I was a kid, (notice the "when"), I wanted to be a pilot (that is my "what" in this sentance). Now that I am not a kid, I still like flying, but I do not want to be a pilot for a living. Is this a result of the "what" changing its nature? Or did I change between the two different "when" times? The answer is pretty obvious. I changed. The what did not. This seems to be a common way for people to look at things - a very linear, sort of sequential plodding of the mind. Sorry. I don't really buy it. Anything that is alive CHANGES. We know that. Even rocks change over time... U238 has a half life... So just "when" do we want to stop the clock in order to "define" what heaven "is"? If heaven is anything like the "heavens", I think some of Sir Guess's other posts reference some of the dynamic changes that the "heavens" are going through, then the heavens are most definatly changing. Scientists buy it. But theologians seem reluctant to think that something "perfect" can change. (Although Jesus had to learn obedience... so not too sure how they can make such broad statements...) But when I was a kid, I loved stuff that moved. Toads, crickets, birds, (damn... do y'all remember the feeling you first had when you felt a little live bird, scared nearly to DEATH when you held it in your chubby hands??? Pretty cool, hugh!) As a kid I was attracted to LIFE! That stuff that changed. Shoot, I even thought the moss on the rock was cool - it smelled like it had been drenched in deep earth perfume. Later, as an adult I learned that "everything" changes. So if heaven is any"thing", then - my bet is that it changes... "what" it "is" depending opon when you see it. Of course, even if you never saw it, my guess is it changes. My eyes have personally never seen the Rock of Gilbralter (sp?).... But my guess is that it changed, today... a little.

Hey, Vert... No! I don't want to excuse the way you sound! I didn't think anything was wrong, at all, so now I'd have to go lookin' for it and find it... and then "forgive" you for it... just honestly say "it's OK". Please don't make me EVEN consider that you were preachin'! "How shall they hear without a preacher?" Sounds noble enough to me! Besides, what we all call "preachin'" has earned a bad rap because they are so unctuous. What a bunch of prattle it all seems to me now! Sorry, Vert - I missed it. (Wait, I don't even want to say that... that would mean I am ADMITTING that you were "preachin", but I missed it... this is getting too complex for me. You may want to solicit a second opinion from other readers... since I just zipped up my jammies and am ready for my afternoon nap. :)-->

Vert... Yup... Gotta admit, I could easily slip into a pair of Dr. Denton's and bring my rabbit fur stuffed cat I named "Mikie" and head on down the hall to talk to God. He always knows when I am too tired to talk with, so I end up getting a familiar blanket and some silence, there. Kids... they are so into the now, that it takes ALL YEAR to ride in a car for 4 hours. We adults are so NOT into the now... that we think it takes a MERE 4 hours to get there. Kids... what do they know, anyway! When we become men or women - no longer boys or girls anymore - it is only to remind us that we should put away childish things when mankind was but a mere child... like... the quest for the knowledge of good and evil, like the law, and we should become grown ups... For when a person outgrows these things, they grow into Christ. Christ gives us a new pair of footed pajamas and restores us to the place where everything is new, everyday... and it, will either take ALL DAY to get to grandma's house, or it will take but a mere moment... if we take our naps at the right time. :D-->

Vert, good to hang wich-oo, 2 Sir Guess said something that I'd like to stop and dribble some more wax onto. Are people addicted to the idea that Heaven is out there, somewhere, either in place or time? If the kingdom of God is within us, then maybe one of the first rays of freedom from the worn out vestiges of the past would look like a bold leap into NOW. - Embracing all of the possibilities. Once you are somewhere else, I think you can stick any appendage you want into the baptismal. Don't cha know, that if ya take a bath in a new tub, you'll be takin' a new bath, even if ya still got your old clothes on. People talk about comfort food, their favorite pair of old blue jeans, their favorite hymm, their favorite verses,... and of course, lots and LOTS of chocolate! Comfort from past favorites keeps us from having an identity crisis every morning we wake up in the NOW. So bring your favorite Teddy Bear, whatever you want - and lets skydive into the kingdom of the spirit of god within, TODAY. Should be quite a comforting new day! I just gotta remember to bring my Kit Kat bar. ;)-->

Ya know, I tired to stay out of this, but I love to kick this kind of stuff around. About Sir G's question: Where is heaven? Well, bibleville has a lot to say, as Sir G. pointed out… if we are listening, now - inside of us, we will get some new answers to these OLD questions. Luke 17:21… “Neither shall they say, Lo here! Or, lo there! For, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” Ever thought about that one like this: If the kingdom of God is WITHIN you, then that is WHERE it is… if it IS within you… then it is NOW. (Is means, presently speaking - in the now. Bill Clinton said "...it all depends on what the definition of "is" is"... prophetic language is all around us... ;)--> So, if it is NOW, then it is NEW – because, it is no longer OLD (or past). So if anything IS new it is in the NOW. If we talk about the future using understanding we have NOW and formulate a doctrine about it NOW and stay welded to it THEN, then we would not be relying on our present conciousness, then, when that future becomes the next now that we have in considering what we believe NOW. Make sense? By the time the future shows up, our version of it will be OLD because we explained it in the PAST. So, what about what we used to believe in the past? Is that what we believe NOW? Not for me!! :)--> :)--> So, if heaven is future, then it can not be NOW, and if it is not now, then it can not BE in YOU…. Coming to you, maybe, but not IN you, because YOU only exist in the NOW. Sure we all got pictures that show us we lived in the past, and we have memories of ourselves in the past, but we are not there NOW. We are HERE, NOW. So heaven is HERE (present) with us NOW… and since everything is new, now – heaven is renewed everyday. We are renewed everyday, as well. EVERY day! But if the kingdom of god is "there, or some other there", then we could not be renewed, NOW. And all these biblical scholars around here should knw that such a statement would be met with attack. So... why do we weld ourselves to our beliefs of OLD, and yet we cry out for renewal, now? hmmmmmmm. --> WHOO HOO!! We don't have TO!!! "So, Class, Where is the kingdom of God?" I'd like to place a bet, TODAY, and it would be my final answer, until at least, tomorrow. At whichtime, ask me again... I might have a NEW answer. :D-->

Thanks, Ex. :)-->But what did you "hear" in what I said? --> I can only hope it was what I meant. ;)--> Bye for now

In one sense, Believing WAS a law, in the way in which we "practiced" it. It was one of 5 things "required" to receive anything from God - as taught. To us, it was one of the five commandments. But a funny thing happened after leaving TWI - When I was released from the "absolute" law of the 5 commandments, then I was free to see what I really did believe. It is fascinating what I discovered I "believed" once I knew I did not have to believe. I did not HAVE to, because that is what Christ HAD to do. The requirement of belief was a "law" that Christ freed us from.

Well, what's in a name... these days. Let's not quibble over such trivia - ... when we are talking about such weighty matters as the LAW of BELIEVING. But if we were to get off topic for sake of clarity - You, like I, thought it was a common rodent, but I have been assured that this picture is (the common ring-tailed mongoose).I got it off some guy's web site... he started the Biblical Mongoose Research Center... the BMRC - Which has shades of meaning, when you remember the B(no M)RC. BMRC. Yes, I think that is where the revelation came from about the Law of Believeing... VP was taking a BM while in the BRC and one of the splinter people overheard ... Many years later, this "overhearer" started posting such notions as "Follow the MOG. Master the BM!" I say follow the true "Mongoose of God" (MOG).... people... ya just have to decide who you are going to sand with... I mean, hey... who got more results??... the MOG or the true MOG???... one flapped his gums, the other, was a serpent slayer. Which takes more believing???

Ok... I get it, now. If believing = receiving... then - by mathmatical exactness & scientific percision - receiving = believing. And of course we have this VERY clear verse - which should guide the intrepretation of the other fuzzy verses... There you have it. Clear as can be... The Mongoose is gifted with his own special ministry. The Mongoose practices believing (a.k.a. "receiving") - he takes up serpants, they bite him, he lives. He, must BELIEVE. He lives by "his faith". He has to... believing is a "law" & and it works for snakes and mongooses alike. Besides, the mongoose is cuter than "Tick" - who everyone knew was VPs spiritual dog.

Opps. I spread a wives tale, unwittingly. Please note below... But it just bolsters the law of the jungle - (which has nothing to do with believing) - it is "the quick - and the dead" Carry on.

Hey Ex! Yeah... I think Simon is on the right track... rubbin' in all that snake oil - eventually got into all our blood streams. Those that stayed in had to have some sort of anti-venom or they were the spiritual mongoose that could take a strike and not die from it - I swear to God.

Yup. You find that promise of God and confess until the doubt, worry, or fear leaves you. If that doesn't work - "Lord. Help thou mine unbelief!" Ya get ministered to. (Usually, the "revelation" pointed to some funk in your blood - so your blood stream had to be cleaned up. --> Which, like kidney dialosis(sp?) - takes a while - so you ARE healed - just not FULLY manifesting it, yet Now, just before you feel like dying... you are supposed to limp to 3rd. Aid. If you didn't get well after going to 3rd aid... you gotta be doin' somthin' on purpose! Time to evoke the PFAL faith loophole - "And he did not many mighty works there because - why - Because Jesus had changed? No! Because of THEIR unbelief."