Too Gray Now

Here goes... Is God an object? Here is an answer… to the riddle – “If you stop looking, you will eventually settle on an answer – one that you are willing to accept is your FINAL answer” . Truth is, that your final answer will depend upon just how you want to understand and define “reality”. Truth may not be relative, but – perspective sure is! And perspective drives awareness. And awareness leads to the rise of possibilities. And possibilities get sorted out and ranked by some understanding of likelihood. And likelihood is governed by the laws of the universe… and then we conduct experiments. And then we scratch our heads and realize one big thing… We do not understand the laws of the universe. (See Quantum Physics if you doubt this statement.) So,– the only answers to your question are relative. Relative to what? I propose that the answers are relative to how you comprehend a puppet show. More on that, later.

"Shall we call it a name?" "Frankenstein" might be a good one - HA! If we build it, then it is our job to make it live and to keep it alive. Along the lines of what Imbus said, society consciousness - on a world basis – is barely above pure self-centeredness. There are low forces (shame, fear, etc.) and there are higher forces (love, oneness, etc.). The precept is simple in all religions – the thought for thought, or feeling for feeling - lower forces have less power than higher forces. All religions teach something along the lines of love casts out fear. This is why 1 can put to flight 10,000. Because it is about Power VS Force. – Which by the way is a title of a good book on this topic.

Dear Chas, Mrs Gray and I have 3 wonderful children that we (she) homeschooled the whole way. Yes, we did outside classes plenty of activities - but the emphasis was at home. We had our reasons at the time for homeschooling, and they were as valid to us then as they are now. We "sensed" that it was the right thing for them. So, we did it. Each child/person has his or her own pace and learning style. Homeschool can accomodate that for each person. In the early years, like you mention - I think one of the things you learn is how to help your child in the learning process. It is more about you discovering the kind of learner/performer that your child is - rather than giving them a "head start" so as to speak. Taking time to to explore different styles, content, presentation aids, etc... can be of tremendous help to you *later* in determining the best way to help them. Why? Well, time with our own children is still precious. Time with them - early in life - when learning was exciting FOR THEM, kept them wanting to learn - for a life time. And, I think that is a huge step towards a "good" outcome.

Belle, Seems like the Mafia even more - no? Gotta get that "protection" money! If you fail to pay protection, something bad will happen to you - just ask anyone in the garment business in NY circa 1940. ABS my AS* ! What you described is extortion - buying protection... nothing less.

Bluesunday- That letter you got was the general understanding of all of us who went in the WC. As you know, we were taught – that we ACTUALLY made a commitment TO God (not the Way Int.) – and that God was monitoring our performance according to our commitment and discipline in applying the Corps Principles - and, should we be stupid enough to “quit the WC” – then God would never bless us again (this was if we got off easy) – otherwise, certain death or insanity was the sure payment. Why did we think this? Oh, because VPW – The Man of God for All Time – made a statement that the only way we should EVER leave the Corps – was “feet first”. Hmmmm. Certain Death. Does this sound like Christianity? Or something else --> Frankly, it would have been much more honest for VP to let us ALL know that God was no longer accepting applications to build an elite group of leaders and disolve the WC program. The priesthood was closed in Christ. What in the HEL_ were we thinkin' I believe what we ACTUALLY did was make a commitment to the Way ministry – and they – (VPW and LCM - through one prime scripture in Job) used it as an avenue to steal, kill, and destroy. The sheer absurdity of this whole thing was how quickly leadership pulled this bait and switch on us – and how quickly we all swallowed their intrepretation! They exchanged the actual church for a pretend “household”. They got us to use the slogan of "It is Written" instead of what Christ said in John 17. They exchanged so many things – that constituted nothing less than bait and switch. Now that you are in, you can never get out!!!! Muhhaaa MooHaaaaa (evil laugh there). It was a fate on par with joining the Mafia. Just think, John 10:10a. I think the thief used a little bait and switch in order to get his objectives met in our lives What do you think?

Belle, hmmm. a massage. sounds so... good to me right now Seriously, though, I think VPW's definition of "spirituality" is very weak to me now. "that which is spirit is spirit, that which is flesh is flesh, and that which is pea soup - ain't apple buttter, now is it!" Spirit is spirit. Flesh is flesh. This idea is true, in that everything has a basis for existance... or orgin if you will. But it is a false argument, (to me, anyway) that these are so S_E_P_E_R_A_T_E_D from each other that there is some great divide that cleaves our beings into 3 parts. Hooey! We can arrange to break what is 1 into many... That is the reason that I posted that broken cup poem. (Besides, it hit very close to home, for me for other reasons.)

Ex, I wasn't thinking that in those words - but since you brought it forward, let's look at it together for a moment. Regardless of how it occurs, I have seen a pattern in my own dysfunctional early family, in myself, in others,... and it is this... when someone fails to love, often others are the ones who seem to "break" first. If the inner man can not be touched with the feelings of our infirm moments... then I would venture to say that this so called "inner" man could not be Christ. I believe he/it is touched by the feeling of our brokenness. I believe our inner man feels the break, and is able to heal itself - much like our bodies do. Could it be that we are "made" to heal from the inside out? If so, how come so many people stay broken for so long...? We, through the mechanisms of memory of the past and hopelessness about the future - re-injure ourselves, daily … sometimes hourly. Like kids who pick off the scabs and start bleeding all over again. Then it has to re-form a scab. My Mom is very happy, now. But, she was broken for years, and years. Deeply broken. Shoot, when I came into this world, she tried to commit suicide. It was not about the “natural” depression that occurs after child birth – It was because of what my dad had done. The lack of love was too much for her to bear. And she broke. Is this part of our spirituality? I mean that she eventually was healed? I believe it is. In her case, it took the love of another to "finish" the inner work. I believe we can do that for each other, and that is part of our spirituality... that it reaches out and touches. I believe that is how Jesus did it. He often laid his hands upon them... but I think part of what was going on - was that he was allowing his spirit to more clearly feel - and then he could heal. Deeply and quickly. I think it was a travesty that in TWI we were taught that our spirit just sat there in our lives and awaits the command from God to do anything. We were told it was "untouchable", because if it could could get the measeles or chicken pox, it wouldn't be incorruptable. Incorruptable seed is a figure of speech, of course. It should form a beautiful figure in our minds as well. And that is why my Mom is fine now. Something in her was able to start putting back together all the broken stuff... starting with itself. I don't really know if any of this is really true... but I think it is more true than the version of "stand-alone, untouchable spirituality" that we learned in TWI.

Boy, oh boy, Steve! Your sure didn't take too kindly to my trying to EXTORT some info from the one who shares your brain... You closed the door on me... so here is my "unfettered" guess... Spinal Tap

Hey Cindy! How 'bout sharin' a little clue.... hmmmmm?

You are right, STEVE! I should have chosen something else like... "Watch out for the ROUS's" (Rodents of unusual size) or "Go through their pockets for loose change" I will have to be a bit more cryptic.... in the future.

Seriously? Trefor? _ I gotta come up with one? Should it be obscure? How about this line: I doubt that you will get such an offer from the eels...

And, i think O'conner's bit where he does the "Make 'Em Laugh!" number was fantastic. And Syd Sherese's(sp?)legs were the LONGEST things I ever saw. :o--> Great movie!

Donnel O'Conner starred in this as a #2 guy - The girl was an unknown, at the time, Debbie Reynolds And the "star" was a dancer/director/singer(sort of)/actor Yes.. all of these lines you quoted are from Gene Kelly's "Singin' in the Rain" A CLASSIC! (IMHO) (But I better get outta here as I always stink at this sort of thing... you just happened to pitch me one I could hit, Trefor)

I sort of wanted to put a picture of him put up as well, but he was wearing a baseball cap (from when he was mowing the lawn) and the sun was bright so you could not see his face, and it was just from the waist-up. I told my Mom that she should have taken the picture of him WHILE mowing the lawn (getting the mower in the shot, too)... and not worry about getting his face! :)--> I mean, it is not even self-propelled!! &*^%$ Thanks for taking the time to read it.

It would have been interesting to see the expression on your Limp Coord's face when told to change from "me" to "us"..... "Whose song is this, anyway?"

There's nothing but shattered pieces my china cup has paid the price I spent too much at the store today and his reaction wasn't nice The kids complained and fussed I could feel impending doom He was tired and didn't care now they're crying in their room I cower and listen in numb despair while his curses fill my ears He's got my throat, I cannot breathe my eyes well up with tears "If only you didn't make me mad!" I know that's what he'll say I'd run and hide and take the kids but I'd never get away He's sitting there, his fire has died pretending nothing fared I stand and face him, cup in hand I've never been so scared "You see this cup?" I asked him "So fragile and complete?" I threw it down in one swift blow and glass flew at his feet He stared at me in disbelief as I finally took a stand "This cup is me, each broken piece, I wish you'd understand!" "Some of the pieces can be fixed with patience and some glue, but some of these are just too small this cup will never be new." "Each time you say a hateful word each time you grab my arm, My mind and heart are shattered and you'll never undo the harm." He told me I was crazy, and I'd better clean up the mess I guess the lesson here was lost and so am I, I guess I found the strength to leave one day but it took too long to get free A shattered cup is my reminder of the life he took from me The pain is still too real to me even though he's not around He still finds ways to hurt me and throw me to the ground My life is shattered pieces but at least I can know this: Someday God will fix my cup but who will take care of his? Angie Horvath 2000

I just read this poem by Angie Horvath... I thought... hmmm this sounds kind of like what I just read by you and ex on this thread. (By the way, this story could have EASILY been written by my mother.--- It was her birthday, this weekend. She is with another man, now. A good and kind man, to her. The days of breaking dishes to make a point, are over.) I also thought about the cup that got broken being like our innocent spirituality. Sometimes I wonder if our notion of a very fragmented spirituality is not upon us for any other reason than - if you try and nail it down - doctrinally, then it will break it into hundresds of pieces. It can never be without a crack again. Oh - yeah - here's the poem.

Paul Knopf was 11th C. I want to say that he went back to Africa after graduation - but with my memory... Maybe I am mixing him up with the Redford guy in "Out of Africa" :)-->

Mr. I.L. Lawrence June 11, 1905 Celebrating 100 Wonderful Years!

I got such a kick out of this, I decided it should get posted. First of all, he is a real person who is still alive in his 101st year. Second of all, he lives in Canada and the winters are tough. Thirdly, he does not live in a nursing home - he still keeps his own place - still mows his OWN grass!! for pete's sake! So here is a condensed story about what it will feel like to get old.... I love this - I hope you do, too.

All right, this is my last post on this topic... So, what the hell is VPs spirituality, anyway? See what y'all think of this approach. This thread seems to have a lot of “nots” in it. Ever notice how many times people will use “NOT” –statements in order to be more persuasive or emphatic? (But in the end, they actually said LESS?) Here are a few - I am glad that I do not fellowship with TWI. VP was a scamming, huckster – who had the “not”-type of spirituality - . LCM said I would be a Grease Spot by Midnight if I left – but I was not. The new Democratic party which Howard Dean is defining, is one that will NOT put up with it any more... “Daddy, don’t smoke anymore”. The love is gone, it is just not there. These statements share one thing in common – they all make statements about what isn’t – or what wasn’t, or what will no longer be. I get the sense that this thread does a better job (overall) of answering a different question, “Theories on what VPWs spirituality was not.” The way we have answered on this thread suggests to me that it is difficult to for most of us to say we know what his spirituality really “was”. After reading this thread again, I feel like Steve Martin and Bill Murray on that SNL skit when he stood there and looked quizzically into the camera and repeated for the next 5 min. (using varying inflections) and said… “What the hell is THAT??!!” “I don’t know what the hell that is!!” link to the actual skit At the end of the skit, you had no more of an idea what it was than when they started… except to say, that had it been EASY to recognize, they would have recognized it for what it was. Their difficulty in recognizing “it” was part of the universal intrigue. This thread is part of the universal answer as to why each of was ever involved… we did not know what it was.!! The fact that SNL could make this topic funny says more about me, than them… I just don’t know what the HELL it says about VP??!!! :)--> One thing is for sure, if SirGuess had asked what his spirituality wasn’t – I think we could nail that… :)--> Actually…. I think we just did.

Ok, let me re-state - to come at this a bit differently. The peak/peek of which you speak is one of sublimation, IMHO. Not in the strict terms of Freud (of course, his is purely a sexual substitution concept), but I can see evidence that VP “saw” and then “switched” his attention. From vision (Mountain Top dancing angels) to vision (Word over the world – how to do THAT???). Sure, grape fasting and sleep depravation can create a "peek" at a "peak". The resulting mountain top experience... becomes an unmovable fact in the experience/life of the individual who relishes the most majestic "things" in the physical world... mountains. REPRODUCING that experience (getting a peek at the peak) was one of the requirements of a successful Way Family Camp (A Mountain Top Experience). Mal and Jan George were Way Family Camp people. Way Family Camps were critical to the early growth and passing the heart of the ministry to others. (I took PFAL for the 3rd time in a film class, where VP showed up at the end of this camp and did session 12 duties. It was powerful, at that time.) Way Family Camps were designed to give everybody a peek at the peak. They were more effective in creating an unforgettable experience than the lesser effective - sitting through PFAL classes. Getting a re-producible experience was very important to VPW. It had to be franchise-able, so as to speak. Family camps running film classes were an effective, if not to say, the most effective tool for world conquest via PFAL, that he had tried to date. He needed a way to make sure that everyone could get a peek at the same peak. VP let people look at a few impressive sights, using his viewing tool (PFAL) like a telescope – and BAM ! - they ALL saw the SAME thing – VOILLA@!. No private interpretation!! Enter, the real McCoy. Honestly, the PFAL Way family Camps were like taking a group of people to the Yerkes Observatory, getting a heavenly body into view, but then locking down the telescope so as to ASSURE that others see EXACTLY the same thing… PFAL locked down the telescope, so as to speak. I would surmise that VPW most likely did not get anywhere near as big a peek as he did “that one time” in the early years as you suggest, SIR_G. It is my perception that instead of continuing his search to see more, better, differently, etc., he became caught up in HOW to get this “Discovery of the Peak” reproduced and franchised all over the world. The reproducibility (sometimes called integrity) of the experience became of great importance. That which is by virtue - un-reproducible, is fundamentally killed or destroyed during the process of reproduction. The vibrant, living, word of God that he got a peek at – died in his hands during the process of reproduction. That is a form of sublimation, as well.

Sir Yakkitty Signpost, ;)--> I want to swing at a couple of your pitches. Let's see.... hmmm (I hear Jeapordy music playing in the background)... "I'll take "Original Questions Restated" for $500".

Ex... thanks again. That quote is an amazing thing. Quitting on Love. What a doppy thing to do. You know he used to talk about Glenn Clark (Camps Furtherest Out) and Starr Daily as if they were good friends of his. This quote is from Starr Daily's autobiography... Again, it seems like those who VPW cited as helping him to formulate his message/spirituality - They actually seemed to grasp what they were saying - because they received it - personally. Starr Daily

We Were S. Yup. He probably did know how to SCAM. But what is the twin side of the same coin... ?? Heads ------ you SCAM Tails ----- you are totally TRUE? This is why I look for truth damn near anywhere... The motive of the user does not negate the entire message. Have you seen Star Wars Revenge of the Sith(sp?) If the Dark side is strong, it is for a reason. Perverted good is a powerful tool. To condemn a tool for the sake of a user... Well... I did that, too. But there is much to be learned from tools used rightly. They are like... like... mower blades. Unless, of course you saw the movie - "Swing Blade". ;)-->