Raf

For what it's worth, I've checked about 40 sites that discuss this issue on both sides. Of those I checked, every one that takes Wierwille's view relies on the translation of Exodus 21:22 ff. Every one that takes a pro-life view relies on an examination of the verses, particularly on the translation and usage of the Hebrew words involved. If I were still updating the Actual Errors list, this would be a prime candidate. Wierwille WOULD be right if the "miscarriage" translation (according to our 20th Century understanding of the word) was correct. But that does not appear to be the case. I'm very open to change my mind, as my examination of the issue has been cursory. Catcup: one could argue that there was a fine because the mother and father did not want to lose the baby: therefore the two men who were striving took something from them. If the mother and father INTENDED to lose the baby, the fine would (under a Wierwillian argument) not apply.

I've been poking around on this: The translations don't agree. Some say miscarriage, others say "premature birth." I'm not sure either way, but I did find this article, which presents a compelling case for the "premature birth" translation. Looking for others on both sides... Another argument for "premature birth" translation.

Coolness. Can't wait to see it.

I think Wierwille assumes the term "that her fruit depart from her" means a miscarriage. If it does, then he is correct. However, if it does not, then his entire exposition is irrelevant. I haven't examined the issue, but would love to hear more about it.

Brace yourself. Our audience was CRYING with laughter.

Cool. We can all go to Hooters and satisfy both the strip club advocates and the let's just sit back and have a beer advocates. :)--> I'd go for a Blues club.

It's kind of like comparing oranges to tangerines. A lot of similarities. Mostel and Wilder were great oranges, but Lane and Broderick are some dang good tangerines.

Oh, he played the director, right? Or his sidekick? Both were outstanding. In fact, everyone was terrific. "I look like the Chrysler Building." BAAAAhahahahahaha

But you know, if it worked, then God must have PROMISED her equal sized breasts, because the law of believing is only about the promises of God, don't you know. Good God, what a crock.

RAF: Psst. Hey, Craig, come here a minute. LCM: What's that in your hand? RAF: It's a Bible. I've opened it to Genesis 1:2. Can you read that? LCM: "And the earth was without form and void..." Hey, you know that should say "became" right? RAF: Well, that's irrelevant, but let's assume you're right. What did it become? LCM: What? RAF: I said, what did the earth become? LCM: Oh, easy. Without form and void. RAF: Thanks. What does "without form" mean? LCM: Ummm.... RAF: (Smacks him in the head with his Bible) It means no mountains, you idiot.

This from CKnapp on a thread about "The Unforgivable Sin"

Don't laugh, I've seen that sign. Well, close to it. The guy was outside Yankee Stadium. His sign read, "Why lie? I need a drink." I hear he made quite a chunk of change. I just looked that phrase up on the Internet. Seems a lot of folks decided on the honest approach. The guy I saw at Yankee Stadium may not have been the first to draw up that sign.

Which one was he?

I saw it in February (Matthew Broderick and Nathan Lane were both performing in the leads). It was painfully funny. I mean, it was physically hurt, grab your sides and beg them to stop long enough for you to regain your composure funny. It was so funny that Broderick and Lane made each other laugh: so hard that they had to stop the show for a minute. This happened in the second act, when Lane's character suggests they kill the actors and Broderick responds, "YOU CAN'T KILL THE ACTORS! THEY'RE NOT ANIMALS!" For some reason, the two found this riotous and lost their composure. The audience, by now exhausted with glee, simply applauded, giving them enough time to get back into character and get back on with the show. The New York Times review of the show began (and I agree): "How do you point out the highlights in a forest fire?"

Of course it was extreme, and I was clear on that when I spoke to them. I gave them this as an example of some rules which are not rules at all: they are preferences which can be broken without doing harm to the English language. But it is essential, I said, to know what a rule is so that when you break it, you are doing it with wisdom and not out of laziness. Basically and essentially are overused. There's nothing wrong with them, and more often than not, they are used properly (grammatically speaking). But as a writer, I can tell you that each word should be used sparingly because they're just so danged convenient. People pepper their conversations with those words, which is fine in conversation, but on paper they become the equivalent of UMMMM, UMMMM, UMMMM. Another rule which isn't a rule (but is almost never broken by good writers), is that it's improper to start an article with the date. The only time it is appropriate, I said, is when you're reciting the opening of The Odd Couple (which none of those whippersnappers gaughed at). Split infinitives? They're fine, honest. And there's really no rule which says you cannot end a sentence with a preposition, although there are grammar-nazis who insist that prepositions are not for ending sentences with.

Touche, CKnapp. I think it's fairly well agreed upon that he's absent in some ways and present in others. He's my lord. Can't wait to see him standing in front of me, though.

Oh there it is.

The dancing figure will point to an x. When the tape stops, click on where the x was three times. A safe appears. One of the clues tells you the code for the safe. There's a screwdriver in the safe. GOOD LUCK GRABBING IT. To save my friggin LIFE it won't let me have the screwdriver.

You know, there's nothing fun about getting to the screwdriver, clicking it to grab it, and just ending up at the cd player again. It's one thing if you can't find the dang thing, but if you CAN find it but can't grab it, that's just rude.

Thanks D. Now, why can't I grab the screwdriver?

Can't find the battery! Argh!

Umm, before I kill someone or break something, what's the point of this danged room?

How do we define "largely plagiarized" or "mostly plagiarized?" I don't know how much of RTHST was plagiarized. I can point to a few egregious examples in that book, but I don't see, for example, any one other than Wierwille teaching that these are manifestations as opposed to gifts, or that these are 9 manifestations of one gift. I give him a lot of credit for that one, although those who believe they should be called gifts will obviously disagree. That, however, is a doctrinal question. It's clear to anyone paying attention that the portion of the PFAL class and book devoted to keys to Biblical interpretation owe much to Bullinger's How to Enjoy the Bible, but how much of that can accurately be called "plagiarized?" Am I not allowed now to teach keys to Biblical interpretation without quoting PFAL? The keys preceded both Bullinger and PFAL, didn't they? I believe Wierwille plagiarized. I believe it was even more extensive than I originally realized (someone on another thread threw a Wierwille quote at me, perhaps not realizing that Wierwille had plagiarized EW Kenyon word-for-word on that particular point). I was stunned to find that BG Leonard, not Wierwille, coined the phrase "The Word of God is the Will of God." I am happy to say Wierwille plagiarized, because it is true. I would be hard put to say that he largely plagiarized, or that he mostly plagiarized. Ultimately, when I teach someone "how to become a Christian," I'm not going to come up with much that is different from every single other Christian teacher on the subject. So... what do you mean by mostly?

I think the point is that they're overused and that they take up unnecessary space. I told my writing class that I would take a full letter grade off any paper that contains the words "basically" or "essentially." I challenged them to come up with a single sentence in which those words were necessary (excluding the preceding sentence, of course).

The Plain English Campaign