waterbuffalo

Groucho, hi. I did believe the snow on the gas pumps story, lol! Mainly because I'd see miracles in nature before. But, I didn't buy into a lot of other things :)

That does sound good! How kind of you to offer, but I'll check at the library and see if they have it :-)

Tzaia, what did you enjoy about this book? How is it different from others on forgiveness that you've read? I'm not sure if I can do steps books--as in the 9 steps to forgiveness--sounds too much like a formula. Could I borrow yours? I don't spend money on books like that anymore.

WW! Happy BD :D

Whited sepulchers, indeed! They were the people they always "warned us" about (in the churches, they said): In Lu 11:44 our Lord gives another turn to this figure of a grave: "Ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them." As one might unconsciously walk over a grave concealed from view, and thus contract ceremonial defilement, so the plausible exterior of the Pharisees kept people from perceiving the pollution they contracted from coming in contact with such corrupt characters. Whited sepulchers site

Thanks, dmiller. The music is very soothing.

Sweet.

Right. It astonishes me that someone in DW's position didn't know. But, I believe him and it helps me to believe that most people didn't know since he, of all people, didn't know for the majority of his involvement with the "ministry." It helps alleviate the shame, for lack of a better word, of having been involved with and used by such an organization. Having said that, the joy of having helped a number of people, even preventing one girl from commiting suicide one night with my WOW sister, are the kind of things I can still be proud of. I just don't talk about my involvement, ever, because of not wanting anyone to ask me the name of the ministry, lol.

Great post, T-Bone. Running on empty comes to mind when I think of how it felt to counsel or to be counseled in wayworld. I'm sure Don did his best and probably no one could have done more in that situation.

Abi said: ohmygosh. ohmygosh. They are such dirtbags. Then twi should have been giving to their followers because we were truly among the poor financially because of our affiliation with them.

Just to clarify our credentials, as Don has stated, wc and clergy were not professional healthcare practitioners nor counselors. The above paragraph pretty much sums it up as far as our "training" or "credentials" go. For example, I can hang out my shingle, claim to be an attorney, and "counsel" clients, if I can get them and even charge them. But, if one of my clients says he or she is going to kill someone and I don't inform the authorities, I can't be disbarred because I'm not an attorney! Thanks for the topic, Don. I never knew you and your family went through that--under house arrest. For gawd's sake. If I'd only known, I'd have been outta there b4 '89...I am sooooo sorry you all went through that.

I learned a lot of useful things, too Ron. Way believers were smart (lots of 'em, anyway)!

At least you can see through it, those attitudes, now--and recognize them and stop them. Gosh, those statements bothered me at the time, too. Can't believe I was ever a part of it.

Happy Birthday, Mark!

Happy birthday, Acts2! I thought about you when hubs sold the Martin (-:

DWBH said: Rhino, please forgive me, but I couldn't figure out which category you fall into on DWBH's thread. People who start threads sometimes address them to a specific audience. If I don't fall into that audience, I just read out of respect for the person who started the thread. So, I just wondered if you're a licensed counselor, former wc or clergy, or someone with a question or personal experience pertinent to the topic? Couldn't find any of the former in any of your posts....

Yes, I remember being grossly underqualified to counsel anyone after graduating from the wc with only the Christian Counseling course with Jay Adams's book as the text, and as you mentioned corps classes on how to perform a wedding/funeral. Underqualified? No, actually unqualified to counsel anyone is the truth. That was/is one of my mantras here at gs. Thanks for exposing/discussing that with us here. It is nice to know someone higher up had a conscience and struggled to know what was the right thing to do at the time of my last years in rez.

Oh gosh, great points, Mstar! Why did we stay? And, why did we stay that long? I'm sure the answers to those questions are different for each of us, but there has to be something in our family backgrounds that would help give us the answers, imo.

So cool, so cool, waysider--a mojo bag! Nice derailment

Oh, yeah!

They did it a little different when I was in rez. Oh gosh, the lady would point people out in the audience and then ask them if they wanted to be redone. We weren't forced. I distinctly remember one person, at least, declining and admiring him/her for saying no. Most people did look better afterwards, but was happy not to have been selected for their experiment myself. Sad to hear that it deteriorated into that. Horrible!

Yeah, the "men" stuck together, didn't they? "men"=whack jobs, control freaks, just to clarify--not talking about all or normal men

Yeah, JJ. A lot of us got stuck with more than we bargained for just to belong, didn't we?

Yeah, Dooj. That was all right with me