Stayed Too Long

What happened is God created an imperfect man who went against God’s will, and God punished him, by casting man out of the Garden of Eden. Man also lost his ability to communicate with the God who created him. God removed the ability of his creation to talk with him. Sounds like a pretty cruel creator to me! If your son or daughter went against your wishes would you cut communications with them? I doubt it. It took thousands of years for God to finally send a perfect person, Christ, to suffer and die to regain the ability for his creation to talk with him. Why didn’t he make his original creations perfect, obviously he had the ability to do so? By not creating perfect people from the outset it has caused endless suffering, death, and war. This does not point to a loving father! Quite the opposite! If God were on earth he would have all his children removed by the state and sent to foster care. He would be prosecuted for murder and executed or set to prison for life.

“Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding.” If you believe God created man in his own image, and gave him free will, five senses, and the ability to reason, why are they no longer sufficient to please our Creator? Further, how did God create man, put him in the Garden of Eden, and in a very short time, his creation sinned against him? God’s handy work seems to have been flawed from the beginning, no? If you hired a contractor to build your home, and right from the beginning his best laid plans completely failed, would you allow him to continue erecting your house .?

I just made some sourdough English muffins and used ghee to brown them. The recipe calls for the muffins to be finished in a skillet and not baked in an oven. I spread ghee on one side of the muffin and began frying it. After about 3 minutes I applied ghee to the opposite side of the muffin and fried it. They browned very nice, were crispy, and tasted quite good.

I have to assume if the Pope or a Bishop decree something it is coming directly fron God? Yes/No? As the title indicates God apparently demands no meat shall be eaten on Friday during Lent only. This custom apparently originates from a law decades ago that states no meat could be eaten on any Friday of the year, under penalty if hell. If you snuck a ham and cheese sandwich at your lunch, when you died your soul was hell bound. You needed to eat a tuna fish sandwich on all Fridays. BUT, HOWEVER, the pope decreed decades ago, you can eat meat on Friday and your soul will go straight to heaven. Pity those poor souls who ate a bologna sandwich the Friday before this decree went into affect, as they were hell bound. But on the next Friday you could eat a roast beef sandwich for lunch, and a t-bone steak for supper, and enjoy life forever with God. Back to no meat on Friday in Lent. Because the current Friday falls on St. Patrick’s day, the restriction of no meat has been lifted. Apparently St Patrick is such an important guy to God almighty, God says eat away on all that corn beef and cabbage you want. I am from Montana and beer is a necessary custom everyday. I have even witnessed the local Bushop saying getting drunk on St Patrick’s day was okay and was not required to be confessed to a guy in a black robe. Crazy proclamations to me. Please explain how God can determines when to lift his decrees?

I recently bought a pound of butter for $2.95 and it yielded a little less than a full pint canning jar of ghee. There is very little waste making ghee and it is much cheaper than the cost on Amazon, ranging from $9 to $35.

All the love and attention I received from my fellowship was what attracted me in the first place. The wow’s and others in the group met some very important needs I had at the time. I was in college at the time and all my friends from school had already graduated and moved on with their careers. I was quite lonesome and the fellowship took me in as one of theirs and filled that void. I went wow the next two years, and midway through the second year, realized TWI wasn’t all it was cracked up to be. But, as my name Stayed Too Long indicates, I hung on to the group far too long. There is no doubt all the ROA’s were very fulfilling and got the next year going for me. Welcome JoyfulSoul.

Does this bring back horrible memorizes. My Twig coordinator and his wife were driving in a snow storm and the car went out of control. They were both killed instantly in a car rollover. As we gathered together and wanted answers as to why God would allow this terrible thing to happen, the Limb leader said it only happened because they missed the revelation from God. It shook use all to the core. On another occasion a ministry leader was in involved in a car accident, and we were told it happened because the leader was attacked by the adversary. No mention of the leader missing any revelation.

Apparently the girls father Lot didn’t think carrying on the blood line was all that important because he didn’t make any effort to have offspring. His daughters had to get their father so drunk to have intercourse with them, that he was not even aware he had had sex with them. I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall when Lot noticed his girls were pregnant and wondered who the father was. And the two sons were Ammon and Moab, who’s followers were enemies of Isreal. These two incestuous relationships had terrible results for God’s people.

No doubt about that. My neice and her family used to play with ouija boards quite a bit. After awhile piece were being mysteriously thrown at them, and they began fearing for their safety, and the board ended up in the garbage.

That sounds like one of Wierwille’s keys to research: Unclear versus understood in light of the clear ones. Another verse in Genesis 19 has a couple of daughters getting their dad drunk and sleeping with him so they can get pregnant. Why? Because there were no other men around their cave for them to marry. The daughter’s father got so intoxicated he didn’t remember sleeping with either daughter. I wonder who he thought the father was when his grandchildren were running around in the cave and no other men were available? I agree the bible was written in a completely different time and culture, so there maybe logical explanations for these seemingly illogical actions. Will we have to wait for the BEMA to find out their true meanings?

You nailed that one, for sure. There must not be adequate discussion on the website for people to give Mike even a second glance. Mike and Bolshevik are like two peas in a pod. Ignore them and eventually the silence will chock them out.

The Word of God is full of crazy commandments that make absolutely no sense at all. Why would someone want to worship such a sadistic god? I cannot overlook a god who would treat his children this way. If my earthly father carried out these acts, he would be in prison and possible executed, and well deserved. "For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken. No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the Lord made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God." (Leviticus 21:18-21) "When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her." (Deuteronomy 25:11-12) "If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, 28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. 29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters."(Leviticus 26:27-30) "A bitched shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord." (Deuteronomy 23:2) "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him." (Leviticus 20:9) "He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord."(Deuteronomy 23:1)

Let’s assume his mother threw in African/caucasian…what nationalities did his father contribute? Apparently this same father was also the father/mother of Jesus’ ancestors, Adam and Eve?

What do you mean by: “Amost sounds like you’re making roca or toffee….?” No, I am talking about making Ghee.

Why do you want to limit the discussion to fundamentalism or something broader? I said thousands of others because there are thousands of others. My statement encompasses ALL RELIGIONS. Why is that so difficult for you to comprehend?

Exactly. There are so many Christian religions around the world that claim their existence from the same book, the bible. None have any more claim to accuracy than Wierwille does. Then throw in all the other world religions, that at least partially claim the bible as their authority, and the number keeps escalating. What method or formula can a person use to determine which one, of thousands, has the true God-breathed truth? I am asking. What basis did you use to claim your religion was the accurate one over all the other world’s religions? I have absolutely no problem believing TWI is as accurate as any of the other thousands of religions, when it comes to their canon. It’s just that most everyone on GSC comes ftom a TWI background, and pick PFAL apart verse by verse. Do you also dive into all the other religions and point out their supposed errors in interpretation, so you justify your chosen way to worship god?

I recall VPW saying something to the affect that the bible was not written for unbelievers, agnostics, or god rejectors. Assuming no one is born with a knowledge of god, then somewhere during their development, they decided to believe in a god or gods. I was in that boat myself. Being born into a Catholic family, religion was crammed down my throat from a very young age. I hated all the rules of having to eat this, pray in a certain position, recognize certain days, confess my sins to a man behind a screen, blah, blah, blah. So I decided to reject it but still held the belief there was a god. Sometime later, as I was eating lunch in a resturant, a guy sat next to me and began to tell me about a god that was completely different than the Catholic god. This random meeting began a 20 sum year association with TWI. At first TWI filled me with peace and tranquility, but then realized they too had crazy rules that must be obeyed. And not adhering to them would force god to remove his hedge of protection from me. So I checked other religions out, but found they all had some hook, that when swallowed, forced me to recognize some aspect of god that made no sense. This got me to reason that if each religion had completely different requirements to satisfy god, which one was right? Then I threw in different faiths, which didn’t even worship the same god, and scratched my head in confusion. Then I came to the conclusion that none had any idea of what they were talking about, as there are thousands of different Christian religions alone, not including all the other faiths. Which one worships the one true god? Impossible to determine. So my logical conclusion was there is no god. I had attempted to reason through mounds of different dogmas to find god, but all it all brought was confusion. Now my mind is cleared. I do not have to choose one god over the other. Peace and tranquility.

T Bone said:From my 12 years of involvement with TWI and from the preponderance of anecdotal evidence from many others I know beyond a reasonable doubt that wierwilledid not like to be challenged. So true. At the advance class I attended VPW made it available for anyone to submit questions they might have and he would answer them. Everyone of the submissions was treated as challenge and threat to VPW’s research. He responded he was hurt so much by people challenging him. Of course, the boot lickers quickly came to his defense and thanked him so much for all his hard work, and assured him all his rsearch was truly appreciated.

When chaper 11 of Hebrews is read in its entirety nothing is mentioned about salvation.

Good question oldiesman.

Our belief is not a belief. Our principles are not a faith. We do not rely soley upon science and reason, because these are necessary rather than sufficient factors, but we distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason. We may differ on many things, but what we respect is free inquiry, open-mindedness, and the pursuit of ideas for their own sake.” ― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything I don’t deny there are things science and reason can’t explain. I have participated in levitations where heavy furniture began floating in mid air. Also played with an ouji board and it answered question after question. Friends have participated in seances where a medium was able to contact dead relatives. Anyone who denies such things happening miss the mark. Science 101 has no explanation for such happenings. One explanation, which makes sense to me, is there are unknown powers, called spirits, that maybe responsible for these events. Who or what they are cannot be explained by science. What I do not agree with is establishing a religion based on spirits by saying some of the spirits are good and others bad. That you have to believe your salvation is dependent on believing one of them.