Stayed Too Long

I just made some sourdough English muffins and used ghee to brown them. The recipe calls for the muffins to be finished in a skillet and not baked in an oven. I spread ghee on one side of the muffin and began frying it. After about 3 minutes I applied ghee to the opposite side of the muffin and fried it. They browned very nice, were crispy, and tasted quite good.

I have to assume if the Pope or a Bishop decree something it is coming directly fron God? Yes/No? As the title indicates God apparently demands no meat shall be eaten on Friday during Lent only. This custom apparently originates from a law decades ago that states no meat could be eaten on any Friday of the year, under penalty if hell. If you snuck a ham and cheese sandwich at your lunch, when you died your soul was hell bound. You needed to eat a tuna fish sandwich on all Fridays. BUT, HOWEVER, the pope decreed decades ago, you can eat meat on Friday and your soul will go straight to heaven. Pity those poor souls who ate a bologna sandwich the Friday before this decree went into affect, as they were hell bound. But on the next Friday you could eat a roast beef sandwich for lunch, and a t-bone steak for supper, and enjoy life forever with God. Back to no meat on Friday in Lent. Because the current Friday falls on St. Patrick’s day, the restriction of no meat has been lifted. Apparently St Patrick is such an important guy to God almighty, God says eat away on all that corn beef and cabbage you want. I am from Montana and beer is a necessary custom everyday. I have even witnessed the local Bushop saying getting drunk on St Patrick’s day was okay and was not required to be confessed to a guy in a black robe. Crazy proclamations to me. Please explain how God can determines when to lift his decrees?

I recently bought a pound of butter for $2.95 and it yielded a little less than a full pint canning jar of ghee. There is very little waste making ghee and it is much cheaper than the cost on Amazon, ranging from $9 to $35.

All the love and attention I received from my fellowship was what attracted me in the first place. The wow’s and others in the group met some very important needs I had at the time. I was in college at the time and all my friends from school had already graduated and moved on with their careers. I was quite lonesome and the fellowship took me in as one of theirs and filled that void. I went wow the next two years, and midway through the second year, realized TWI wasn’t all it was cracked up to be. But, as my name Stayed Too Long indicates, I hung on to the group far too long. There is no doubt all the ROA’s were very fulfilling and got the next year going for me. Welcome JoyfulSoul.

Does this bring back horrible memorizes. My Twig coordinator and his wife were driving in a snow storm and the car went out of control. They were both killed instantly in a car rollover. As we gathered together and wanted answers as to why God would allow this terrible thing to happen, the Limb leader said it only happened because they missed the revelation from God. It shook use all to the core. On another occasion a ministry leader was in involved in a car accident, and we were told it happened because the leader was attacked by the adversary. No mention of the leader missing any revelation.

Apparently the girls father Lot didn’t think carrying on the blood line was all that important because he didn’t make any effort to have offspring. His daughters had to get their father so drunk to have intercourse with them, that he was not even aware he had had sex with them. I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall when Lot noticed his girls were pregnant and wondered who the father was. And the two sons were Ammon and Moab, who’s followers were enemies of Isreal. These two incestuous relationships had terrible results for God’s people.

No doubt about that. My neice and her family used to play with ouija boards quite a bit. After awhile piece were being mysteriously thrown at them, and they began fearing for their safety, and the board ended up in the garbage.

That sounds like one of Wierwille’s keys to research: Unclear versus understood in light of the clear ones. Another verse in Genesis 19 has a couple of daughters getting their dad drunk and sleeping with him so they can get pregnant. Why? Because there were no other men around their cave for them to marry. The daughter’s father got so intoxicated he didn’t remember sleeping with either daughter. I wonder who he thought the father was when his grandchildren were running around in the cave and no other men were available? I agree the bible was written in a completely different time and culture, so there maybe logical explanations for these seemingly illogical actions. Will we have to wait for the BEMA to find out their true meanings?

You nailed that one, for sure. There must not be adequate discussion on the website for people to give Mike even a second glance. Mike and Bolshevik are like two peas in a pod. Ignore them and eventually the silence will chock them out.

The Word of God is full of crazy commandments that make absolutely no sense at all. Why would someone want to worship such a sadistic god? I cannot overlook a god who would treat his children this way. If my earthly father carried out these acts, he would be in prison and possible executed, and well deserved. "For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken. No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the Lord made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God." (Leviticus 21:18-21) "When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her." (Deuteronomy 25:11-12) "If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, 28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. 29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters."(Leviticus 26:27-30) "A bitched shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord." (Deuteronomy 23:2) "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him." (Leviticus 20:9) "He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord."(Deuteronomy 23:1)

Let’s assume his mother threw in African/caucasian…what nationalities did his father contribute? Apparently this same father was also the father/mother of Jesus’ ancestors, Adam and Eve?

What do you mean by: “Amost sounds like you’re making roca or toffee….?” No, I am talking about making Ghee.

Why do you want to limit the discussion to fundamentalism or something broader? I said thousands of others because there are thousands of others. My statement encompasses ALL RELIGIONS. Why is that so difficult for you to comprehend?

Exactly. There are so many Christian religions around the world that claim their existence from the same book, the bible. None have any more claim to accuracy than Wierwille does. Then throw in all the other world religions, that at least partially claim the bible as their authority, and the number keeps escalating. What method or formula can a person use to determine which one, of thousands, has the true God-breathed truth? I am asking. What basis did you use to claim your religion was the accurate one over all the other world’s religions? I have absolutely no problem believing TWI is as accurate as any of the other thousands of religions, when it comes to their canon. It’s just that most everyone on GSC comes ftom a TWI background, and pick PFAL apart verse by verse. Do you also dive into all the other religions and point out their supposed errors in interpretation, so you justify your chosen way to worship god?

I recall VPW saying something to the affect that the bible was not written for unbelievers, agnostics, or god rejectors. Assuming no one is born with a knowledge of god, then somewhere during their development, they decided to believe in a god or gods. I was in that boat myself. Being born into a Catholic family, religion was crammed down my throat from a very young age. I hated all the rules of having to eat this, pray in a certain position, recognize certain days, confess my sins to a man behind a screen, blah, blah, blah. So I decided to reject it but still held the belief there was a god. Sometime later, as I was eating lunch in a resturant, a guy sat next to me and began to tell me about a god that was completely different than the Catholic god. This random meeting began a 20 sum year association with TWI. At first TWI filled me with peace and tranquility, but then realized they too had crazy rules that must be obeyed. And not adhering to them would force god to remove his hedge of protection from me. So I checked other religions out, but found they all had some hook, that when swallowed, forced me to recognize some aspect of god that made no sense. This got me to reason that if each religion had completely different requirements to satisfy god, which one was right? Then I threw in different faiths, which didn’t even worship the same god, and scratched my head in confusion. Then I came to the conclusion that none had any idea of what they were talking about, as there are thousands of different Christian religions alone, not including all the other faiths. Which one worships the one true god? Impossible to determine. So my logical conclusion was there is no god. I had attempted to reason through mounds of different dogmas to find god, but all it all brought was confusion. Now my mind is cleared. I do not have to choose one god over the other. Peace and tranquility.

T Bone said:From my 12 years of involvement with TWI and from the preponderance of anecdotal evidence from many others I know beyond a reasonable doubt that wierwilledid not like to be challenged. So true. At the advance class I attended VPW made it available for anyone to submit questions they might have and he would answer them. Everyone of the submissions was treated as challenge and threat to VPW’s research. He responded he was hurt so much by people challenging him. Of course, the boot lickers quickly came to his defense and thanked him so much for all his hard work, and assured him all his rsearch was truly appreciated.

When chaper 11 of Hebrews is read in its entirety nothing is mentioned about salvation.

Good question oldiesman.

Our belief is not a belief. Our principles are not a faith. We do not rely soley upon science and reason, because these are necessary rather than sufficient factors, but we distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason. We may differ on many things, but what we respect is free inquiry, open-mindedness, and the pursuit of ideas for their own sake.” ― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything I don’t deny there are things science and reason can’t explain. I have participated in levitations where heavy furniture began floating in mid air. Also played with an ouji board and it answered question after question. Friends have participated in seances where a medium was able to contact dead relatives. Anyone who denies such things happening miss the mark. Science 101 has no explanation for such happenings. One explanation, which makes sense to me, is there are unknown powers, called spirits, that maybe responsible for these events. Who or what they are cannot be explained by science. What I do not agree with is establishing a religion based on spirits by saying some of the spirits are good and others bad. That you have to believe your salvation is dependent on believing one of them.

You just proved Hitchins point didn’t you? With absolutely no evidence at all, you proclaim, “…things not seen are still very real.” What provable evidence do you have, other than having just read about in some book, or trusting in a soul you decided to harken to? Wierwille made known that god told him he, god, would teach him, VPW, the word like it had never been known since the first century if he, vpw, would teach it to others?, (alot of he pronouns in that sentence.) Can you show me the proof that god never told him that? Or to the contrary, show proof it is a true statement? Since neither is provable I can believe either one or dismiss either one, correct? The same can be said about Christ coming back to earth; of course, this assumes he departed the first time….another thread for another time. Other than reading in the bible about Christ coming back for his saints, what demonstratable evidence do you have collaborating it? None I submit. If you do please present it. What evidence do you have if you confess Jesus as lord and believe that he was raised by god from the dead, you will be be saved? Did you receive a congratulations card from on high to prove it? What evidence can you present that when a women looked back at something, she was turned into a pillar of salt? Did your Morton’s salt shaker say its ingredients were Lot’s wife? The bible claims you can do the works of Christ, so how many people do you know who choose to leave their fishing boats at home, and troll for fish as they strolled across the top of the lake? If that is too far fetched for you, how many sailors have you heard of, who’s ship was sunk, decided to walk away and head for shore? And at the same time assure their mates not to fear, but to also walk with them to safety? The list goes on and on as more verses are read.

Hebrews 11:1 “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” Other than the bible stating that something is, there is no other evidence of its existence. Hebrews tells its followers as much. They are told that even though there is no proof of something, you must believe it, no matter how illogical it may be. Take for example Mary bearing a son because she has been impregnated by an invisible god. Apparently god had to perform this miracle because he had created some very sinful people who rebeled against him. Mind you, this all powerful god had made these people in his own likeness and image. Obviously god had some fatal flaws in his character that he passed on to the people he made in his likeness, because they rose up and sinned against him. According to him these flawed people he made in his own image had to be annihilated and wiped off the face of the earth. He apparently could not stand to be with those he had given life to, so After killing them all, except for a chosen few, he once again allowed them to repopulate and to live sgain. But alas, they also had a sin image in themselves also, and he was tempted to kill them all again (one would think the creator would learn from his first mistake, but not so.) Awe, but he so loved them in spite of their wicked ways, he decided he would not kill them, but send his only begotten son, via a pregnant girl, and have him tortured and crucified. (Wow..a lot of suffering and death follow in the wake of this god.) Somehow, we are expected to believe that having his only son murdered, made god feel good again about himself and the sinful people he had already created. Now all you have to do is beg for his forgiveness by repenting, and all our crazy living will be wiped away. Like the old saying goes, you can’t make this stuff up. Somehow we have allowed ourselves to be tricked into believing such outrageous claims. Who ever wrote the bible must have a hollywood background. I think Christopher Hitchins said it best: “What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.” “Faith is the surrender of the mind, it's the surrender of reason, it's the surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other animals. It's our need to believe and to surrender our skepticism and our reason, our yearning to discard that and put all our trust or faith in someone or something, that is the sinister thing to me. ... Out of all the virtues, all the supposed virtues, faith must be the most overrated.”