CircleGame

Too funny two cats!! (I'm a cat lover too) Some more: 1972 - parents criticizing your favorite music 2002 - kids criticizing your fave music 1972 - thinking the New Millinium would be a "new age" 2002 - looking back to the "good old days"

I agree - the exactness factor is a method of cult control. If you are not getting the answers - you are not detailed and accurate enough, which means you have to keep on keeping your nose to the grindstone to get results doncha know!! I thought it was fun to hear the detailed teachings at first and to do Word studies (church never taught me that) But attention to detail is only one factor in salvation (wholeness) there is gist, feelings, love, optimism, morality, hope, etc, etc. etc.

Hi Everyone and thankyou, I did have a Happy Birthday, though it was mixed with sadness. I found out that my sister is diagnosed with breast cancer (from my brothers), and none of us have seen her or talked with her since 1999. My one brother did see her in January and she called him in Feb. and told him the news. Will put more on in the prayer forum

I have never heard of or seen anyone spanking a child on the calf!! Also I have never seen anyone spank someone elses child (SHAME on Bob M.) I myself would spank my child if he was extremely stubborn, but usually he would do what I said after I said it two or three times and just show him the wooden spoon. I would also spank my nephew if I was babysitting him and would recommend that my sister do so, but I never spanked him with the wooden spoon if my sister was present. SHAME on the people who beat their children to the point of bruising and bleeding!!!!I used to take offense at believers spanking their child if their child disobeyed after being told something once. I was always more lenient, but I feel somewhat guilty at using the spoon at all.

Kill for TWI?? Never!! I got in TWI in early 78, and in late 78 there was the Jonestown Massacre. I thought - how could anyone be that way?? TWI did encourage one not to hang out with unbeliever family and friends, and to a certain extent, I did not (fully). I believed in being "friendly" to unbies (also witnessing, but witnessing then shunning didn't seem right to me) For sure, some unbies annoyed me and I would want to shut them out, some I thought were "evil", but the urge to kill?? NEVER!! So, I never fully shut out unbies or fully cleaved to "believers". Never joined WC, but did go WOW. Here and there TCs criticized my son and when he was 12 he took PFAL, but was bored and showed it. My TC criticized him and acted cold, and I thought - that's IT!! No more TWI. Bowtwi and Watered Garden - big hugs to you!! I felt hurt at the treatment I got (and criticism of my son) but it wasn't nearly as severe as the treatment you got. Later I would think of the bad treatment I got and my son, and think HMMF but I don't have the urge to kill, just not the type. If anyone asked...I think I would report them to the police rather than follow, or else just be scared and under the covers at home.

Getting a decent sound on the violin isn't that hard Zixar - I only screeched a couple of times and I am not really "musically talented". You can learn one note songs on the violin by "finger picking" them first, then bowing. So it's pretty easy to teach yourself one note songs but anything else is beyond me.

I like to play piano and guitar just to relax. Most adults get bored by my playing, though 10 year olds like it and adults who don't know much about music. Took up the violin a few years back, could play several one-note simple songs by ear, but I could do that on the piano when I was 10 years old!! I wish I took violin when I was young and possibly gotten good at it? I never took any lessons in anything.

I hope no book about the Way is published and distributed in "regular" bookstores. UGH!! I WITNESSED to people (and argued with people) "the Way is not a cult, etc." I don't want them coming to me and saying, "what were you doing in that HORRIBLE cult?!?" (i didn't know it was horrible at the time, but knew it had faults....) I feel embarrassed at the possibilities of friends and relatives visiting this site..... TO MY OLD FRIENDS and RELATIVES: hey, I thought TWI was "best" , then "good", then "okay" (and habit), stuck around because of habit and fear.....didn't know it was so bad...a lot of people didn't....still, I don't know why I stayed as long as I did, I was lukewarm for quite a while.

I didn't like the way TWI pooh-poohed vacations. (You've got the rightly-divided Word, what else do you need) Though I think VPW enjoyed traveling. But he can spiritually "handle" it, hmmmmm. I enjoyed vacations to see different parts of the country - ocean and mountains. God created variety and I think it's important to experience it. I'm a bit of a mystic nature lover and so that is important to me. I've been everywhere in the USA, but haven't traveled much lately. Not much money to do so.

Hi, happy day after Christmas everyone. I'm a kid at heart and I like hearing about these miracles. Though I have never seen one personally, either to me, or to someone I know. That was a draw for me in TWI - the miracles that VPW did, and the miracles in "TWI - Living in Love". Then I believed I didn't see miracles because I didn't believe enough.Blah, blah. TWI's requirements of doing this and doing that was a turn off. I'm not turned off by talk of miracles. TWI isn't the only place that talks about miracles, but it was the first place I heard about. (oh, a Christian Scientist did some work in my mother's home when I was growing up, and he said he had a crippled arm and God healed it). Unity Church talks of miracles in prayer and is not a high demand ministry like TWI was.

When people ask my spiritual background, I say, brought up in Episcopalian Church, went to other Churches, part of a born-again Christian group, also believe somewhat in New Age. I don't say "cult" still......why, because I believe either everything is a cult or nothing. Some religious groups are more controllling and narrow than others. I think I was fooled by the Way's seeming liberal stance of "good" and "best". Good meant good at first, then (shrug) okay, then (snort) counterfeit...and later (according to some) "everyone else is possessed" the more I heard things like that the more unblessed I became. Still I don't call TWI a "cult" I think of it as part hippie, part army, part Amish (yes, with their standoffish attitude toward "unbelievers") and part Mickey MOuse sorcerer apprentice, and yes, part Godly. I learned a lot of Bible in TWI and learned how to use a concordance, and fellowshipped with others interested in the same.

No Way, If you are taught to distrust and not like as much people who don't belong to your offshoot, that is idolotry. That is saying only people in your offshoot know the truth and can love you. BS!!!! Keep trying to tell them that JC wants us to love all, and reprove sharply the works of darkness. Last night I watched a program by Wayne Dyer, he said "feeling good is feeling God" (assuming a person's conscience isn't seared) if the offshoot makes you feel good, continue, if not don't waste your time.

((((((((((whytedove)))))))))))))))) A good book to read might be "Sorrow" by Norman Vincent Peale. I find that he is good to read sometimes. A Christian who promoted positive believing but did not have a narrow, rigid, controlling ministry. He didn't have any ministry save for his church in NYC, he wrote books so people could be blessed reading his books from their homes, not having to make "commitments" and saying TWI alone has the truth.

IMF777 - I enjoyed that link comparing BG Leonard & VP Wierwille - what is the larger website name?? Everyone else - re: VPW - he is DEAD, his books still live on, some/most plagerized??He influenced people who influenced you (for good and/or for bad...blessings and/or hurts) and for some the influence was direct. (and hurtful)Others who were directly "blessed" aren't posting here....they should be able to....just like people who were directly hurt.The posts and links about BG Leonard clear up a lot of grey areas in my mind re the Way and why it was both good and bad.

Hi Oldies, Yes I was a part of TWI, and yes I was blessed by various people and events of TWI, such as big dos, teachings, music and classes. Yes, I thought there was a lot of good, and also a lot of bad. (Chiefly the rigid superiority of "good" and "best", and how that evolved into "everyone else is possessed") That sort of doctrine is psychologically abusive and that came from LCM in a very obvious way and VPW in a not so obvious way (but VPW approved of LCM) I don't know what BG's ministry is like, it might be very boring, it might be very narrow minded, it might be good, it might be like reading a book and that is it, no ministry per se. It was disappointing to see good in TWI and then to see possessiveness, rigid superiority, etc. I didn't have to believe it, but how could I not?? I could have left the first minute I felt disappointed, but I didn't. I didn't believe everything TWI said, but I couldn't disbelieve it either.

((((excathedra)))) Anyone who has been abused is vulnerable. Some might get a hard shell around them. But most are needy. TWI seemed like it had answers and could provide deliverance from the hurts and insecurities of past abuse. I know, because I was psychologically abused in childhood and psychologically abused again in TWI. I was "blessed" at first (by BG's ministry) and then I stayed because I was afraid of depression or worse in the world. I still believe in God, and like to read books, and go to Church here and there.

Some comments: Dot - thank you for this thread - it sure is interesting!! I loved your long post about why TWI is both good and bad - due to the uncredited influence of BGL and the over credit of VPW. Shows a lot of thinking and heart.. To Linda Z, Year2027 and others - I don't mind paying for a Bible Class -- The Bible is free to read I can go to Church for free and hear the sermon or teaching and a lot of Churches have additional meetings besides Sunday church I could have just gone to twig and branch, however I was immediately interested in taking PFAL because I liked the title, and I wanted to be like the other "grads" Paying for classes is not paying for the Word of God, as you already have it in the Bible, it's paying for books, and it pays for the research time and public time of the teacher. He takes time away from work in order to do this. And I don't mind paying. I like BG Leonard - calling it gifts of the Spirt. I bet he and followers don't say - "All nine all of the time" That was arrogant and inaccurate as no one can be in fellowship "all of the time" (especially the abusive people). The word "manifestation" implies man-made effort. If God doesn't give you Word of Knowledge - you use your own common sense. I bet BG's group doesn't have "leaders" telling you what to do because God doesn't "waste" revelation!! (yikes - that used to get me when I was in TWI) Great thread everyone!!

Dot, When was "Foundations" written?? When was that paragraph written? (I'm trying to see if there were several editions of "Foundations") and if maybe BG Leonard knew of VPW's plagiarism?? I wonder if others were plagiarising?? It's too bad BG didn't take VPW to court about it!! Sheesh!! WHAT is SO HARD about crediting an author!?!? It is what people do, but sometimes in human error there is inadvertant plagiarism. Like George Harrison in "My Sweet Lord". It sounds like VPW definitely was not inadvertant in plagiarism.

I use "believe G-d" because I was being sarcastic (using the Way saying) What are messianic teachings DamitJanet?

I don't know about anybody else, but I would have a lot of respect for TWI if they deeded the farm back to the Weirwilles. They can "believe G-d" for a new HQ site. They can start over. They apparently disassociate themselves from VPW, no longer calling him "our father in the Word"??? and don't welcome Weirwille family members to their ancestral home. Get a new home TWI!! It's easy!! Just "believe G-d"

TWI seems to think that the Weirwille family are annoying baggage?!? Fine, let them turn over the farm back to the Weirwilles!!!

MJ412, I lost my Way books because I had most of them in storage and didn't pay the rent. I miss them due to GS Cafe (even though most are negative about TWI) Posts here make me want to take a new look at old books, tapes, etc.I'm glad I've got the books I've got. I reread "living in love" recently and got new insights.

I wonder if non-way people buy them?? People who have heard belatedly that VPW was a good writer, (but that the cult stinks)?? Cult researchers?? People who have been witnessed to?? Sort of an "underground" movement to buy TWI books?? For YEARS I had all my Way books, magasines, and tapes (about 5 years worth) and then I lost most of them because I left them in a storage bin and didn't keep paying the rent. I wish I still had them, maybe one day I shall go on ebay. However, when I had them I used to grimace and scoff when I packed and moved (oh, these stoopid Way books, sheeeesh....) All I have today is the PFAL book, the Promised Seed, and 3 Way mags..I sort of miss the ones I lost due to GS Cafe...see, even though you're negative about PFAL and materials, I still sorta miss them.

I agree with Sunesis Dot, that post is well-written and thorough. Thank you!!

Oh, here is the other website http://www.libchrist.com/bible/howsexsin.html