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Mike

The Ubiquitously Hidden Teaching of VPW

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quote:
I think the primary danger Mike wields is not one of getting people to join him in ga-ga-for-Wierwille land. It is more subtle. It lies in what Mike quite effectively elicits in his opponents by flaunting his grotesque presuppositions about Wierwille: A smug and exaggerated sense of how far they have traveled from the TWI premise about Wierwille and from Wierwille's false teachings.

I agree with this for the most part, except for the part about "flaunting his grotesque presuppositions about Weirwille." Mike sparks a lot of outrage precisely because he really has the brass balls to publicly state what in fact is the historically-correct summation of the essence of Weirwillism. Mike is exactly what Weirwille intended his followers to become. Mike is exactly the end-product that PFAL was designed to produce. THerefore, his presuppositions about Weirwille are not "grotesque," he has captured the true original intent of Weirwille.

I don't feel outraged by Mike's writings. I feel vindicated. From the earliest days of Waydale, I argued that Weirwille was a colossal fraud, an egomaniacal and monomaniacal grifter. That he set up his nasty little cult to heap worship and adulation upon himself.

There is not one stitch of historical or scriptural proof for the overwhelming majority of Weirwille's arguments.

Mike conveniently proves that argument over and over again.

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i liked their posts because they make me think about myself and my own reactions to mike (and other people i might add)

lately i think i can learn more about myself in observing myself than in observing others

and i liked sir guess's post about magnetically drawn, friendships, stuff

i actually do like the mike behind all those crazy words

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I found my copy of Karl Kahler's book this morning. From the opening chapter, Karl quotes Dr. Wierwille (from POP):

quote:
If Craig does not come back to the integrity of the Word, then before too long he will begin to blame others around him for lacking spiritual perception and will begin to blame the loss of power in the ministry on others. I?ve seen it before and I see it in the Word. He will start to lash out wrongly. It will hurt so many. It will sound genuine, but it will not bring deliverance to those who follow what he says....
(emphasis mine)

Sounds awfully familiar...

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Zixar,

That IS a very interesting quote.

It?s even more interesting to see the context that fits in. I brings up MANY of the points we?ve been discussing these months. The quote you posted was spoken by Dr just before his last teaching.

How accurate Chris Geer?s got these quotes of Dr?s in POP is a large matter. They were not taped, but remembered by him. I have discussed here before why I tend to believe their accuracy. We can discuss that again, too.

The POP was brought up in another previous GS discussion, where the focus was Dr?s vocabulary and the way he reserved words to emphasize aspects of the Natural/Factual vs. Spiritual/True. Nice how this brings us BACK TO THREAD TOPIC.

Whether or not Dr knew ?the Joy of Serving? was going to be his last teaching was also discussed here before. In this passage below Dr himself discusses it. I some ways these fit right in with Dr?s last words to us that DID get taped.

Dr?s admits his flesh flaws in mild general way (surely won?t satisfy many here), as well as his great effort to get the good stuff all in writing, and accurately.

This passage below (and Zixar's post) is found in the middle of Part 4 of POP.

Again, I want to repeat, that this is NOT part of the tape/print record, it?s what Chris Geer extracted from his memory (and he was good at that kind of thing), AND it fits well with the record Dr did leave in his last three years.

This remembered text is pretty rich, but let?s remember that it?s ONLY remembered.

Zixar, your posted quote is in the 5th paragraph.

*************************************************

*************************************************

*************************************************

from Passing of a Patriarch

part 4

Shortly after the dedication everyone else left, and Doctor and I got ready to head over to the service. After checking his notes he handed me his Bible as he had many times through the years, and with tears in his eyes said: "Well, son, this may be the last time. Tomorrow we go home and see if there have been any changes or not. If not then I guess this will he the last. You know, son, there is only one man who could have handled Europe, that's you. In my heart there were only two men who could handle the Presidency, you and Craig. Right now there is only one man who can save the Ministry, that's you. You and Craig are the only ones left that know of. If what I saw the other night in the video is right, he is fading fast. The only hope that is left as far as I can see it is for you to get to Craig somehow and talk to him. I have not been able to."

He stopped in the hall of the Suite and looked at me with his intense manner: "I have not been able to stop this Athlete of the Spirit thing. Let me tell you, it may well end up costing us the Ministry. When you forsake God's Word for the imagery of that Word, you lose the power of God. The same is true of research. You never research for research's sake. Anything ahead of God is sin. So many other men and ministries have gone under on this very point through the years.

"It took me years to convince our people that Christianity was something to be taken seriously. Effectively, we have lost all that. It is just a game again, and that is not at all what I had in my heart when I taught it originally. I don't know how you will ever get through to Craig and the rest on that one, I really don't. It's like we talked about the other night, whatever a man willingly disciplines himself to is what he loves. Once, this Ministry was a Ministry of the accuracy of God's Word and deliverance for His people; that is why He blessed it arid protected it."

This was the fifth time since the Fortieth Anniversary celebration that he had expressed his deep concern to me about this topic. The first was during the Anniversary week immediately following a short presentation by John Lynn. The second was on 25 February, 1983, at 4:30 a.m. in MacClesfield, England. The third was during our talk in Caen, France, on the evening of 26 March, 1984 (which I had thought rather incongruous at the time). The fourth was as we watched the videotape, "Sons of God", the night of 9-10 May, 1985. The fifth was the night of his last teaching of God's Word as we stood in the hall of the ELO Suite just prior to going over to the teaching. He had expressed concerns of where he saw things going if the situation could not be rectified the night that we had watched the video.

"If Craig does not come back to the integrity of the Word then before too long he will begin to blame others around him for lacking spiritual perception and will begin to blame the loss of power in the Ministry on others. I've seen it before and I see it in the Word. He will start to lash out wrongly. It will hurt so many. It will sound genuine, but it will not bring deliverance to those who follow what he says. Spiritually they will be empty words. Once God's Word is compromised in any way it no longer is God's true Word. You have error, and error is error.

"I have fought this thing all my life. I know what I am talking about. I have seen it in the Church, the mission fields and in other ministries. Paul faced the exact same thing. Outwardly they salsam you and slobber all over you, but without a solid Biblical footing you flounder. He'll be grabbing at straws. I sure wish I could do something for those who will be around him when it happens, if he doesn't get back to the truth of the Word. The further you drift the worse it gets. Look how far Saul went when he stopped lovingly listening to Samuel.

"Sure Craig was up against a lot. Right before the inauguration Donnie really pulled in all the strings. Craig was up against a stacked deck; I know that. But, he chose to discipline himself for the Athlete of the Spirit thing and not for the Presidency. Today, the seat of the President is basically vacant. Craig took a portion, the authority, without the responsibility.

"I sure don't know why Donnie isn't blessed and thankful; we bought him his doctorate. If Craig had wanted to be a good President he could have; he chose to discipline himself to other things. I know that if he had applied himself honestly he could have gotten to the bottom of things. You did, and you were not in the middle and didn't have the responsibility. I did, and I was forced out. I just know that he could have, too. Why he didn't -- I just don't know why. Son, he basically didn't stick to what I taught. He gave. I sure don't know why."

He continued as we walked down the hall: "Chris, if things ever do get back on the Word I don't know if any of those men will be big enough to straighten things back out again. I just don't know. I wish I did. All the work of a lifetime.... To be lost so soon.... At least I wrote a lot or it down so maybe others will rise up in the future.

"I want you to remember, I may have made mistakes, but to the best of my ability I never have handled the Word dishonestly or deceitfully. You know that; you lived with me. It just hurts my heart. Paul had the same problem in his day too.

"Being here with you has been a blessing. I think you are the first man that I have really been able to talk with like this in a long time, maybe since Uncle Harry died. Last time we were with you was a wonderful vacation for me, this time we haven't had much time for that, have we?" As we left the Suite we curtailed discussions of the Ministry and we chatted, making small talk.

We got into the car and drove over so that he could teach God's Word for the last time in his life. His remark before going out to teach was so typical, "Well, this is the finals this time, isn't it?"

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A site called Spiritual Power for Abundant Living @ www.exboard.com

is dedicated to The very same teachings Mike claims to have the title on.

This I the part I do not understand , it is a site that has the exact teaching Mike says he has found with much labor,,, and revelation.. it is a forum with discussion like GS.

Why are you not involved in that sight Mike???

It seems you would fit in and enjoy the like mind, yet no you want to go to an ex-way site and then play a victim of misunderstanding and recruit who you can for what purpose???

You know it is a nice sight for those who want this type of discussion and learning hmmm???

I think you like attention even more than your topics...

anyone who is sincere in learning this stuff from vpw "last teaching and more it is all on that site...Thomas Benner is the moderators name I think ..

Do you know him Mike?? Do you have issues with him or what??

Do you want to be the only one who has this data? Your not you know I hope the population here realizes something is fishy in this game here..

If your interested in this type of stuff check out his site it is EXACTLY what MIKE is posting.. here at an ex-way site.

why do you post at an ex-way site Mike? Why do you NOT post on sites that agree completly with your mission???

I am not saying your should stop just wondering if your so bent on this agenda why not get together with those who want the same things???

I think you like the game and feel loved when people give you the benefit of being nice and honest and fair, I think your sick and unable to relate in normal terms even with your own data... with those who agree.

So if your really honest and genuine why not direct people to this site??? HMM??? they have EXACTLY what your pasting here and much more. .. or is it just your throne ?

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Mike, Mike, Mike... * sigh * this is ALL so old, done, finished, over with--did I leave any out??

You have a very obvious sow's ear--no amount of study, explanation, reasoning, wheedling, dodging, justifying, quoting, etcetera, ad nauseum is going to alchemically transform it into a silk purse. THE Word of God, contained in the written bible, is the Pearl of Great Price, not some dog-eared copy of the blue book---sheesh! By your reasoning, Joseph Smith was 150 years ahead of ole vic....cmon...

[This message was edited by alfakat on April 16, 2003 at 17:18.]

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Mr. Wierwille said:

quote:
"I want you to remember, I may have made mistakes, but to the best of my ability I never have handled the Word dishonestly or deceitfully. You know that; you lived with me. It just hurts my heart. Paul had the same problem in his day too."


What a deluded man.

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mj412,

I'm aware of that sight, and mentioned it (not by name) on the "Mike's Drivel" thread.

There's another website like it, too.

I know both webmasters.

There are several reasons I haven't yet gone there. One is that some Grease Spotters have asked me to stay. You are free to start a thread and debate that with them.

Why do you want to restrict the informationn flow here, on a site that prides itself in allowing ANYTHING to be said, just about?

What's your agenda in squelching what I want to post?

I have many other reasons for being here. Your personal preferences are not high on my priority list.

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Well mike I must be of the devil huh???

I am quite aware of how you are not to be "squelched" you look so much more important as a victim.

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This whole "Mike" scenario reminds me so much of the stuff you see on sports message boards all the time.

Heck, I've even done it myself.

Last year when the Charlotte Hornets were trying to relocate to New Orleans, I posted a lot of stuff on a New Orleans message board. Junk like, "The Hornets will never move to New Orleans. There's nothing there but drunks and perverts and cross-dressers and hookers."

The New Orleans people would respond by calling Charlotte "Mayberry" saying it was full of rednecks and calling me "Goober." Most took it all in fun, but some got on their high horse to explain how wrong I was at length, pointing out facts and figures at length. I had to keep registering under different user names because they would ban me from the site.

Eventually the Hornets did move to New Orleans and they quit responding to me, except for the occasional "nyah nyah nyah." Then it wasn't any fun anymore because I couldn't get a rise out of anybody and get them riled up.

I think that's exactly what you have here.

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Todd - I apologize for leaving you with the impression I was delivering a "double barrel custom fit... spanking" to you personally. That wasn't my intention at all. I enjoy your posts and respect the thought and heart you put into them.

I have a lot of new data to reveal concerning Wierwille's ubiquitously hidden error. I would have addressed my posts to Mike, but he has proudly proclaimed on a number of occassions that he closed his mind against all new data five years ago. You asked a few questions, Todd, which opened a way for me to present some of my new data. That's why your name was on the posts, not because I had a particular disagreement with you.

So again, I apologize, and look forward with pleasure to future discourse with you.

Love,

Steve

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Posted by What The Hay:

quote:
I believe Mike is just one of those people who happened to get stuck back in the "PFAL popularity" of the '70s. Really people, he is just someone who is crying out to get out and get "unstuck".

Stuck in the 70's? - Hardly. Mike's theories were developed witihin the last few years. When in the 70's was PFAL promoted as the Word of God that supersedes the scriptures? When in 70's TWI were the scriptures considered unreliable remnants? When in the 70's was VPW's alleged 1942 episode where God spoke to him taught to be a new covenant between God and mankind? When in the 70's was it taught that VPW was genetically gifted giant who caused the earth to shake wherever he walked?

None of this stuff was a part of 70's TWI.

Mike is not stuck in 70's and neither is he "crying to get out and unstuck". Mike has sold out to his own beliefs and will not be moved. He thinks he has found something and will not be swayed. He is here to try make proselytes - to promote PFAL as the only reliable Word of God - to declare VPW a man after God's own heart. That is why Mike is here.

Crying to get out and get unstuck? - Talking about naive. Sheesh !

Goey

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icon_rolleyes.gif:rolleyes:--> The point was that VPW warned CG that LCM would act pretty much like how you're acting now, namely, feeling like he had the line on true spiritual perception, and further warned him of the consequences, namely, that it would sound genuine, but deliver no one.

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Zixar

your right that would allow vpw to be correct and all knowing till he died .. a man of God.

a man God told everything to .......

In fact He did tell vpw just what was happening.

God loved him so much He let vpw know that not only was he to die at a young age from a cancer he believed was caused by the lighting from the taping of the pfal classs , but that the whole idea of his was to be destroyed and the cult he had would be revealed as a lie on the internet..that his work would come to nothing but a sorrid affair and great scandal.

I believe God did talk to vpw.

VPW just didnt like what God told him..and blamed people for his problems the very ones who worshiped him instead of the one true God.

Vpw set it up to be a god, it worked, for a minute as God is a very patient Source of Power and all knowing then He gets jealous and we learn....

People can not destroy Gods work .

God can stop people who destroy His work.

amen

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wow (pun intended)

i went over to tom benner's site on ezboard

here's a link:

http://pub36.ezboard.com/bpowerforabundantliving

unreal! ohmygosh! i saw johniam over there but i didn't say hi. oh man i should go over and talk to them about a few things on my heart about doctor wierwielle

maybe

hey does the pooprophet have anything going on the internet ?

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no, exy--I think the policy there is extreme caution...ya never know when some disgruntled, exwafer might have the goods on one of the higher-ups in the org., doncha know???? icon_biggrin.gif:D--> icon_razz.gif:P--> icon_rolleyes.gif:rolleyes:--> icon_wink.gif;)--> icon_eek.gif

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Ex

who is the pooprophet??

thank you for posting a link I am unable to do that for some reason on these replies..

Mike is a little upset with me for a moment , because he wanted to be the one with the new data you know but so sorry Mike just like vpw, someone ele smakes the data available which you just copy to here with your own slant...wishing no one would notice... I know you have to do what your mind is trained to do in his steps and all.

Ex do indeed share at that site! maybe in the quote from vpw section I was thinking you may have some good ones too.

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thanks mj for letting us know about the discussion board. i would think mike would be in mog heaven over there.

yeah quotes from doctor would be great, the first one that comes to mind was in a one-on-one conversation, him screaming at me: "how long do i have to suck your asses"? (referring to way corps)

i have many more icon_smile.gif:)-->

the pooprophet is chr*s g**r he wrote the poo poo paper that's been quoted here for our edification

alfa damn!!! too bad huh ????

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yeah, exy, damn shame that some of the hidden, secret, shameful things can't come out and play in the light of day, uhh-huh!!

I, for one, would love to hear some more of your prime-time quotes from herr veeeektorrrr--if you are so inclined... icon_biggrin.gif:D--> icon_cool.gificon_eek.gificon_razz.gif:P-->

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I actually don't have much of a problem with that board (aside from the fact that there's one or two posts a month).

If people want to concentrate on "the baby," what's wrong with that? They're not looking to expose TWI or re-examine their beliefs. Hey, more power to them.

They don't seem to be spending any time talking about this place. Live and let live, far as that goes.

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dicktor victor had a baby ??????????????? icon_wink.gif;)-->

***

okay alpha just one more for now:

"take your blouse off so i can see your beauuuuuuutifulll breasts. nooooo? well come back and see me when you grow up to be a REAL woman of god."

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Rafael

that is why I metioned it to help Mike make it available and to know he does have support out there in cyber space.

but he took it the wrong away and said I was squelching him again or something hmmm.

why cant we all just get along ?

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