I sure have...If anyone put thier total trust into the organization, Im sure you hit this level..I think its all about getting honest with yourself..as hard at it seems...because its like investigating your very own logic. I never termed it the way you have, meaning rape. I never liked the word cult so I have been thinking of it as Spiritual or CHurch abuse. It's all the same. But like you said it hits the emotions..
You used the correct word. It's not inappropriate in the least. Emotional rape is very real and it happened a lot in wayworld. It was part of the process to get us to do whatever they wanted us to. It was part of the plan all along. It's an ugly word because it defines ugly acts.
The part I'm having trouble with is seeing those who would rape emotionally (or any other way) for who they are before they can inflict harm on us.
I recently reunited with my younger brother after 25 years. I was in a much better financial position than he was when we reunited last fall, so it was my pleasure to give him several thousand dollars as a gift. Six months later he told me he was going to lose his house to foreclosure unless he came up with $6 grand in two days. I felt so badly for him that I got a loan for him to help him out. His third payment is due in a couple days. The first two never arrived in the mail, altho he insisted he sent them. I'm not expecting the third to come.
Shame on him for screwing me over, yes, BUT SHAME ON ME MORE for still being able to be taken in any way. This feels like emotional rape all over again and dammit, I should have learned to see this one coming by now.
Glad I'm not the only one to thnk this. The same expression "emotional rape" had occurred to me some time ago.
It can also be rape, legally, if "consent" was obtained by threats or duress. We all know about duress.
This may be an expression that speaks more to the female visitors to the Cafe. What do male visitors think?
Bowtwi:
If you feel inclined to do such a thing again, perhaps get details of the loan account that needs to be paid (and check the details!) and pay the lender direct - don't give it to your brother to pay in, he's already shown himself untrustworthy. But God bless your heart in giving. You did the right thing, even if he didn't.
Ala, I did/endured/turned a blind eye to some pretty horrible things because *GOD required this of us* I was made to do things that no one under any circumstances could have ever made me do with physical threats...because of the threat of losing God`s love and blessing :(
Your words put things into pictures that can be grasped.....the submission to brutality inflicted, the aftermath of cruel abuse, and eventual casting aside once usefullness was exhausted.
Something was broken, but not irrevocably so.... Dear ala...it HAS to get better
Actually it also puts me in mind of that Austrian girl Natascha who recently escaped from her captor of 8 years. She was just a little kid when she was captured by a much older male; kept in a dungeon in poor conditions; threatened and never knew what mood she would find him in - whether he would be nice to her or beat her. She also had to share his bed. Occasionally he treated her with kindness and gave her things (like a radio) to help her personal growth.
She was emotionally and physically raped and yet at heart she retained a little core of herself which enabled her to escape.
Nobody could say that Natascha consented to the conditions.
TWI has kept some of us in poor conditions, never knowing whether they would be nice or not to us; and giving us just enough that we could feel we had some personal growth. (Heck, there were enough meetings to go to). (And a few had to share the bed of the head honcho(s)). And we retained a core of ourselves that we can use to emotionally extricate ourselves.
I do not mean to belittle her horrible experiences in any way. God help her (and the psychiatrists) in sorting her thinking patterns out now. :(
Twinky - Thanks for your suggestion. We did pay the lender directly, so I know the money went where he said it would. We also have a written contract that my brother drew up. We can go to court and get a judgment, but it breaks my heart that we're not worth more than a lousy $5 grand to my brother. His son has paid back a grand on his behalf, but now the third payment is due in two days. I'm not holding my breath.
I've made it a rule of mine now that I no longer loan money to people I haven't given birth to.
Very interesting post, Ala – and a very uncomfortable subject to think about [physical or emotional rape]. I cannot even begin to fathom dealing with the trauma of physical rape. The first time I read your post – I thought you may have gone overboard in your choice of words. But the more I thought about it – the way you put it could describe my TWI experience – a rape of the intellect, emotions and conscience. And it was not an overt act on TWI’s part – like a rapist stalking his victim and overpowering them. I would liken it to a date-rape-drug method. As a newcomer progresses in their involvement with TWI – the insidious doctrines and mental manipulations gently lull their critical thinking process to sleep. Warning!!!!!!!!! Don’t drink the Kool-Aid!!!!!!!
Thank you for your words and your honesty. I remember your excitement when you rekindled with your brother. It is unfortunate that he has allowed this to happen and caused this schism between you both.
You got me thinking about something that has been I believe, deep in my psyche due to TWI's teaching. When things would go wrong, or... like you, feeling dooped by your brother, I would say ... Oh, I ALLOWED this to happen to me. I wasn't SHARP enough with the signals God was trying to tell me ... blah blah blah...
But then, I started to think about rape victims and how often women do not report an incident because they feel they were responsible for the act. That they somehow provoked the man especially if she knew him before hand or else, that she may have acted provocatively and therefore was 'asking' for trouble.
Not so. The 'rapist' is into POWER... he wants the control... you say NO doesn't matter...he's gonna get his way no matter what.
So, it's not about ALLOWING, but rather about the abuser's wanting of power and authority in the situation.
Sheeshhh... this is sounding so dreary... I am sorry here.
Rascallion:
"It gets easier over time, as I find and build upon that *core self* that you mentioned."
Build upon that core self. I think that is a key factor. Not built upon anyone else's self or passions, but your own. I always thought that was being selfish... how pathetic was that :blink:
Like an Eagle:
Thanks for your words ... they are very helpful.
T-Bone:
Thanks for being here.
"...a rape of the intellect, emotions and conscience." BINGO!!!
You could write a whole thesis on this alone. I suppose the key is...when you give yourself wholly and you don't retain 'yourself' is when this process begins to happen. But the 'rapist' sees the opportunity and takes full advantage of it...therefore, the abuse has already started to happen. They now use authority, (power), threats and manipulation to get 'their way' but they disguised it as ... GOD's WAY... which makes it even a deeper crime.
A la, "rape" is certainly a very apt and appropriate word.
Ya know, when my car got stolen many years ago, I couldn't bare to drive it after the cops released it to me. I had felt raped, violated, exposed and abused knowing that those delinquents went through "my stuff" - that they had gone joy-riding in my car - gone through my glove box - etc. It was the most horrible feeling in the world and nobody ever laid a finger on me.
TWI raped us (for some of us, our spouses contributed) - they exposed the dark crevaces of our minds, emotions, feelings that should be our decision whether to share them or not. They stripped away any self-respect, self-esteem and honor we felt. They stripped away our ability to have feelings, to share those feelings and to disagree, debate, muse, ponder.
That's why recovery for some of us is so hard in certain areas, imo. We were emotionally raped and now feel very uncomfortable with some of the thoughts and feelings we experience on a regular basis now - are they good, bad, indifferent? How do I act? We weren't allowed to make our own decisions - everything had to be according to TWIt doctrine, whatever it may be for that day.
Yes, we were raped. Thankfully, we've got a cafe like this where we can get a warm blanket, a tender hug, a mug of strong coffee and a sweet roll while we heal with others who understand. :)
I suppose the key is...when you give yourself wholly and you don't retain 'yourself' is when this process begins to happen.
This is just a bit scary - we are supposed to love God with all our heart, mind and strength. In other words, we surrender to God. All very right and proper. That surrender was abused.
We are also supposed to consider the "old man" [or woman] dead (as in trespasses and sins). The image given to us was of lugging a corpse around tied to our backs.
Well, you can't rape a dead body. That's something else. Necrophilia, anyone (yeuk) :unsure: [why isn't there a "sticking out the tongue Smiley?]
I think that is one of the things I am dealing with now--the after affects of being emotionally used and abused. Since I did give myself wholly at one time, I now hesitate to do it again. (Even if it isn't to a person or organization.)
"...they exposed the dark crevaces of our minds, emotions, feelings that should be our decision whether to share them or not. They stripped away any self-respect, self-esteem and honor we felt. They stripped away our ability to have feelings, to share those feelings and to disagree, debate, muse, ponder. "
I loved this statement. Especially the last part.
I always felt it taboo to disagree (wonder why? :unsure: ) debate... ( god forbid :o), muse ... there was no fun allowed... they were the fun police... only fun to be had was their fun...all other fun was counterfeit
and ponder... no time to do that... we were too busy moving their shlopp!!!
But now today, I always feel so privileged when I ALLOW myself these things or someone allows them for me. And when I do this for myself, it strengthens me inside. It reassures me I am a human and I'm ALLOWED to voice, to be and to have. I'm ALLOWED error and it is forgiven.
This I feel is one of the greatest healing forms for me.
"Emotional rape" is a shocking term and one I have never thought of. I've had to sit with that term since reading it. It is hard to grasp. Yet as I've sat with it, it seems an apt description..with date rape being the analogy. Certain TWI practices/doctrines violated one's heart and essence, one's core as stated. This violation was allowed due to trust.
When I read your term Ala, I was reminded of a term I ran across in recent months...."soul murder," where one's desire is killed, where one no longer has access to that which is deep within. In TWI, I was taught to cover up the deep crevices in my soul (that needed loving exposure), and often times that cover was with scripture. Is not that handling the word of God deceitfully?!?
GRRRRRRR... and then I'd blame myself...time after time after time...over and over and over and over. After all I was the problem!!!! And I gladly accepted the full blame.
It just plain old ticks me off!!
As I stated on another thread:
CURSE THAT DAMNABLE TWI PRACTICE/DOCTRINE OF NOT LISTENING TO OUR OWN HEARTS!!!
I have only started to allow myself the things that I would like to do. The things that fulfill ME.
And, it's not a selfish thing either. It's something that brings an added jump to my step, something that reminds me I'm ME. Something that brings wholeness to my life. Something I'm willing to put effort into in order to have in my life.
I can't tell you how rewarding it is to finally have this start happening in my life.
But until this point... it did feel like soul murder...and that I had been very royally (as excie aptly put it) F * C K E D.
Glad I'm finally crawling outta' that very dark whole I have been living in for far too long.
Heck no...it ain't selfish! It's probably what God wanted you to do all along! :)
The hole.... I'm so familiar with that hole. I have vowed not to enter it...too deeply....again. God grant me the wisdom and power to keep that promise to myself.
I still find myself going there from time to time, but at least I recognize it and can talk with a few trusted friends about it.
The times this past year when I found myself lurking in that hole I'd get a mind pic: I'm in a deep, red dirt hole...like a well with no sides. But I'm not deep in the hole; I'm near the top. And there is this foot in a boot trying to push me down. The boot is on my head pushing. And I dig my fingers in the side of the dirt and say, "No damnit. I'm not going down. You can't push me down!!!" As long as I can stay near the top, I know I'll get out...and that effing boot has to effing leave!!!! As long as I'm near the top I can see the light. As long as I can see the light, I have hope.
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likeaneagle
I sure have...If anyone put thier total trust into the organization, Im sure you hit this level..I think its all about getting honest with yourself..as hard at it seems...because its like investigating your very own logic. I never termed it the way you have, meaning rape. I never liked the word cult so I have been thinking of it as Spiritual or CHurch abuse. It's all the same. But like you said it hits the emotions..
Take care
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bowtwi
Dearest Ala,
You used the correct word. It's not inappropriate in the least. Emotional rape is very real and it happened a lot in wayworld. It was part of the process to get us to do whatever they wanted us to. It was part of the plan all along. It's an ugly word because it defines ugly acts.
The part I'm having trouble with is seeing those who would rape emotionally (or any other way) for who they are before they can inflict harm on us.
I recently reunited with my younger brother after 25 years. I was in a much better financial position than he was when we reunited last fall, so it was my pleasure to give him several thousand dollars as a gift. Six months later he told me he was going to lose his house to foreclosure unless he came up with $6 grand in two days. I felt so badly for him that I got a loan for him to help him out. His third payment is due in a couple days. The first two never arrived in the mail, altho he insisted he sent them. I'm not expecting the third to come.
Shame on him for screwing me over, yes, BUT SHAME ON ME MORE for still being able to be taken in any way. This feels like emotional rape all over again and dammit, I should have learned to see this one coming by now.
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Twinky
Glad I'm not the only one to thnk this. The same expression "emotional rape" had occurred to me some time ago.
It can also be rape, legally, if "consent" was obtained by threats or duress. We all know about duress.
This may be an expression that speaks more to the female visitors to the Cafe. What do male visitors think?
Bowtwi:
If you feel inclined to do such a thing again, perhaps get details of the loan account that needs to be paid (and check the details!) and pay the lender direct - don't give it to your brother to pay in, he's already shown himself untrustworthy. But God bless your heart in giving. You did the right thing, even if he didn't.
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rascal
Ala, I did/endured/turned a blind eye to some pretty horrible things because *GOD required this of us* I was made to do things that no one under any circumstances could have ever made me do with physical threats...because of the threat of losing God`s love and blessing :(
Your words put things into pictures that can be grasped.....the submission to brutality inflicted, the aftermath of cruel abuse, and eventual casting aside once usefullness was exhausted.
Something was broken, but not irrevocably so.... Dear ala...it HAS to get better
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Twinky
Actually it also puts me in mind of that Austrian girl Natascha who recently escaped from her captor of 8 years. She was just a little kid when she was captured by a much older male; kept in a dungeon in poor conditions; threatened and never knew what mood she would find him in - whether he would be nice to her or beat her. She also had to share his bed. Occasionally he treated her with kindness and gave her things (like a radio) to help her personal growth.
She was emotionally and physically raped and yet at heart she retained a little core of herself which enabled her to escape.
Nobody could say that Natascha consented to the conditions.
TWI has kept some of us in poor conditions, never knowing whether they would be nice or not to us; and giving us just enough that we could feel we had some personal growth. (Heck, there were enough meetings to go to). (And a few had to share the bed of the head honcho(s)). And we retained a core of ourselves that we can use to emotionally extricate ourselves.
I do not mean to belittle her horrible experiences in any way. God help her (and the psychiatrists) in sorting her thinking patterns out now. :(
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rascal
Great points twinky, especially about sorting out our thinking processes now that we are out...
Every day is a challenge to figure out whether what I am doing is a result of healthy thinking, or learned behavior in twi.
It gets easier over time, as I find and build upon that *core self* that you mentioned.
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bowtwi
Twinky - Thanks for your suggestion. We did pay the lender directly, so I know the money went where he said it would. We also have a written contract that my brother drew up. We can go to court and get a judgment, but it breaks my heart that we're not worth more than a lousy $5 grand to my brother. His son has paid back a grand on his behalf, but now the third payment is due in two days. I'm not holding my breath.
I've made it a rule of mine now that I no longer loan money to people I haven't given birth to.
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T-Bone
Very interesting post, Ala – and a very uncomfortable subject to think about [physical or emotional rape]. I cannot even begin to fathom dealing with the trauma of physical rape. The first time I read your post – I thought you may have gone overboard in your choice of words. But the more I thought about it – the way you put it could describe my TWI experience – a rape of the intellect, emotions and conscience. And it was not an overt act on TWI’s part – like a rapist stalking his victim and overpowering them. I would liken it to a date-rape-drug method. As a newcomer progresses in their involvement with TWI – the insidious doctrines and mental manipulations gently lull their critical thinking process to sleep. Warning!!!!!!!!! Don’t drink the Kool-Aid!!!!!!!
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A la prochaine
Bow-Twi:
Thank you for your words and your honesty. I remember your excitement when you rekindled with your brother. It is unfortunate that he has allowed this to happen and caused this schism between you both.
You got me thinking about something that has been I believe, deep in my psyche due to TWI's teaching. When things would go wrong, or... like you, feeling dooped by your brother, I would say ... Oh, I ALLOWED this to happen to me. I wasn't SHARP enough with the signals God was trying to tell me ... blah blah blah...
But then, I started to think about rape victims and how often women do not report an incident because they feel they were responsible for the act. That they somehow provoked the man especially if she knew him before hand or else, that she may have acted provocatively and therefore was 'asking' for trouble.
Not so. The 'rapist' is into POWER... he wants the control... you say NO doesn't matter...he's gonna get his way no matter what.
So, it's not about ALLOWING, but rather about the abuser's wanting of power and authority in the situation.
Sheeshhh... this is sounding so dreary... I am sorry here.
Rascallion:
"It gets easier over time, as I find and build upon that *core self* that you mentioned."
Build upon that core self. I think that is a key factor. Not built upon anyone else's self or passions, but your own. I always thought that was being selfish... how pathetic was that :blink:
Like an Eagle:
Thanks for your words ... they are very helpful.
T-Bone:
Thanks for being here.
"...a rape of the intellect, emotions and conscience." BINGO!!!
You could write a whole thesis on this alone. I suppose the key is...when you give yourself wholly and you don't retain 'yourself' is when this process begins to happen. But the 'rapist' sees the opportunity and takes full advantage of it...therefore, the abuse has already started to happen. They now use authority, (power), threats and manipulation to get 'their way' but they disguised it as ... GOD's WAY... which makes it even a deeper crime.
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Belle
A la, "rape" is certainly a very apt and appropriate word.
Ya know, when my car got stolen many years ago, I couldn't bare to drive it after the cops released it to me. I had felt raped, violated, exposed and abused knowing that those delinquents went through "my stuff" - that they had gone joy-riding in my car - gone through my glove box - etc. It was the most horrible feeling in the world and nobody ever laid a finger on me.
TWI raped us (for some of us, our spouses contributed) - they exposed the dark crevaces of our minds, emotions, feelings that should be our decision whether to share them or not. They stripped away any self-respect, self-esteem and honor we felt. They stripped away our ability to have feelings, to share those feelings and to disagree, debate, muse, ponder.
That's why recovery for some of us is so hard in certain areas, imo. We were emotionally raped and now feel very uncomfortable with some of the thoughts and feelings we experience on a regular basis now - are they good, bad, indifferent? How do I act? We weren't allowed to make our own decisions - everything had to be according to TWIt doctrine, whatever it may be for that day.
Yes, we were raped. Thankfully, we've got a cafe like this where we can get a warm blanket, a tender hug, a mug of strong coffee and a sweet roll while we heal with others who understand. :)
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Twinky
This is just a bit scary - we are supposed to love God with all our heart, mind and strength. In other words, we surrender to God. All very right and proper. That surrender was abused.
We are also supposed to consider the "old man" [or woman] dead (as in trespasses and sins). The image given to us was of lugging a corpse around tied to our backs.
Well, you can't rape a dead body. That's something else. Necrophilia, anyone (yeuk) :unsure: [why isn't there a "sticking out the tongue Smiley?]
But then we are talking about emotional rape...
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penguin
I think that is one of the things I am dealing with now--the after affects of being emotionally used and abused. Since I did give myself wholly at one time, I now hesitate to do it again. (Even if it isn't to a person or organization.)
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A la prochaine
Belle:
"...they exposed the dark crevaces of our minds, emotions, feelings that should be our decision whether to share them or not. They stripped away any self-respect, self-esteem and honor we felt. They stripped away our ability to have feelings, to share those feelings and to disagree, debate, muse, ponder. "
I loved this statement. Especially the last part.
I always felt it taboo to disagree (wonder why? :unsure: ) debate... ( god forbid :o), muse ... there was no fun allowed... they were the fun police... only fun to be had was their fun...all other fun was counterfeit
and ponder... no time to do that... we were too busy moving their shlopp!!!
But now today, I always feel so privileged when I ALLOW myself these things or someone allows them for me. And when I do this for myself, it strengthens me inside. It reassures me I am a human and I'm ALLOWED to voice, to be and to have. I'm ALLOWED error and it is forgiven.
This I feel is one of the greatest healing forms for me.
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I Love Bagpipes
"Emotional rape" is a shocking term and one I have never thought of. I've had to sit with that term since reading it. It is hard to grasp. Yet as I've sat with it, it seems an apt description..with date rape being the analogy. Certain TWI practices/doctrines violated one's heart and essence, one's core as stated. This violation was allowed due to trust.
When I read your term Ala, I was reminded of a term I ran across in recent months...."soul murder," where one's desire is killed, where one no longer has access to that which is deep within. In TWI, I was taught to cover up the deep crevices in my soul (that needed loving exposure), and often times that cover was with scripture. Is not that handling the word of God deceitfully?!?
GRRRRRRR... and then I'd blame myself...time after time after time...over and over and over and over. After all I was the problem!!!! And I gladly accepted the full blame.
It just plain old ticks me off!!
As I stated on another thread:
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excathedra
plain and simple
many of us got F U C K ED
god forgive me
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A la prochaine
Bagpipes,
Soul murder - apt description ... VERY apt.
I have only started to allow myself the things that I would like to do. The things that fulfill ME.
And, it's not a selfish thing either. It's something that brings an added jump to my step, something that reminds me I'm ME. Something that brings wholeness to my life. Something I'm willing to put effort into in order to have in my life.
I can't tell you how rewarding it is to finally have this start happening in my life.
But until this point... it did feel like soul murder...and that I had been very royally (as excie aptly put it) F * C K E D.
Glad I'm finally crawling outta' that very dark whole I have been living in for far too long.
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I Love Bagpipes
Heck no...it ain't selfish! It's probably what God wanted you to do all along! :)
The hole.... I'm so familiar with that hole. I have vowed not to enter it...too deeply....again. God grant me the wisdom and power to keep that promise to myself.
I still find myself going there from time to time, but at least I recognize it and can talk with a few trusted friends about it.
The times this past year when I found myself lurking in that hole I'd get a mind pic: I'm in a deep, red dirt hole...like a well with no sides. But I'm not deep in the hole; I'm near the top. And there is this foot in a boot trying to push me down. The boot is on my head pushing. And I dig my fingers in the side of the dirt and say, "No damnit. I'm not going down. You can't push me down!!!" As long as I can stay near the top, I know I'll get out...and that effing boot has to effing leave!!!! As long as I'm near the top I can see the light. As long as I can see the light, I have hope.
It's a comfort to know that we aren't alone...
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