My opinion--man's greatest spiritual problem is believing that their own belief is the only true belief for all mankind, and unbelievers deserve to be punished.
How does this differ from sin? Or is it simply a different aspect of the same thing.
The problem for antedelluvian man, for instance was sin, both outward (he did great evil) and inward (the thoughts of his heart were nly evil continually). I suppose you could call that separation from God. But so is death.
How does this differ from sin? Or is it simply a different aspect of the same thing.
The problem for antedelluvian man, for instance was sin, both outward (he did great evil) and inward (the thoughts of his heart were nly evil continually). I suppose you could call that separation from God. But so is death.
seperation from God seems to imply some sense of otherness between you and whatever you find yourself calling ultimate reality
much like the relationship of tree and leaf...ocean and raindrop
how radically different perspectives are equally true
Personally, I think man's greatest spiritual problem is believing there is something called "spirit".
That is, something that cannot be perceived by the senses, cannot be falsified, and can only be experienced, never proven.
Geeze Pete, we're well into the 21st century now, and with the evils of religion so apparent (and so DEADLY!) now, GAWD I wish we'd just snap out of it already.
It's all a joke people. And the joke's on us. We're all passengers on the same little planet. We only have a short life to live. Do we really need to spend so much time hating one another because we don't share the same superstitions?
If there IS some afterlife of some sort, we have no way of knowing about it so it's futile to speculate, and downright harmful to argue over.
So, here's an idea. Let's live like decent human beings, pulling our own weight and caring for one another as best we can, and if there is a remarkable next life, we'll be all ready for it anyway. And if there ain't, we won't know it.
I used to be somewhat ambivalent about religion. I figured "live and let live". If someone wants to believe in whatever metaphysical nonsense they choose, what difference does it make? That was until 9/11. I don't think that way anymore...
Mankind is a fallen race. Adam's sin was in eating of the tree of knowledge, i.e., a different knowledge than Gods. He could take of this knowledge that was offered and looked soooo much better, or he could freely receive that which God freely gave.
His choice: to take illegitimately, or to receive legitimately.
Only reunification with God via Christ enables us to enter into God.
Man is fallen - he can never be holy or clean enough to enter into God. Thus, the need for the free gift of life Christ came to offer.
"Sin" does not mean being a "bad" person or doing bad things - that is fallen man's nature, he cannot change. We are told there is no condemnation for having this sin nature.
The sin is in staying separated and fallen willfully.
Hi Evan. I'm thinking of the scripture in Romans - who shall deliver us from this dead body? (sin nature)... there is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. I'm at work so I don't have my bible with me.
Years ago, it hit me - like a lightening bolt, that since we are covered and washed by Christ's blood, and, at this time since it is not revealed to us what we shall be when we enter into our perfection as a new creation - a son of God - there is still now, no condemnation to us for having our old man nature. Or for being a fallen race. The only condemnation comes when one rejects the one who has come to bring us to God as a new eternal creation.
Just as, if I wanted my cat to act more like my dog, no matter how hard kitty tries - he can't. In the same way, we can't. Our nature is fallen. Yet, we are not condemned for this, in fact, to any who asks, eternal life and the promise of being a new creation is given. That is Grace.
I find it amazing how (as far as we know), God has created (not made - but created - totally new) only 3 types of beings, with a fourth to come: Angels, Adam, and Christ. And now, presently the universe and all of creation groans waiting for the revelation of - the sons of God. The universe waits for us. We are to be a new creation - the 4th creation.
When someone does a good deed for someone else, or:
when *out of the blue* a good thing happens to someone who didn't excpect it?
or when *prayer* from the most unlikely source shows up?
Meebe I am here, but like I said -- it got me to thinking.
I've had good happen to me (as a result of folks I never considered spiritual)
and I know others have too.
And I (and the others) recognized the good, and maybe you just chalk that up to *kindness*.
Why David, didn't you know?
If a Christian does something we like, it's just natural kindness, or "living like decent human beings." But if he/she does something we find distasteful, then we chalk it up to his/her religion.
From my Christian point of view I would have to agree with Evan. And in my humble opinion, I think it’s really a compound problem. We are a fallen race – sin being the corrupting virus that it is - has tainted every aspect of our being. So right from the get-go we have a pre-configured tendency to deviate from what is right. As Paul speaks of the sin that dwells in us [Romans 7:17]. Sin even skews our perception of things as Jesus spoke of in Matthew 7:3 the plank being in my eye. Which all means as we “perceive” our world and interact with it - we often do in fact deviate from doing what is right.
Christian author Jay Adams often addresses this compound problem [our sin nature and sinful tendencies] in his books that deal with counseling situations. For example, one Christian wrongs another. Sometimes the offended party may overreact, respond in kind, harbor a grudge, etc. Two wrongs don’t make a right. And it doesn’t minimize the first wrong by the offender. But it does complicate the situation for the counselor in terms of helping both parties towards reconciliation.
And in tying this in with WordWolf’s comments about what is the greatest secret in the world today. I would say for me personally is how do I see around this plank in my eye – without pulling it out? I’m sort of kidding here – but for Jesus to say we should first pull out the plank in our own eye before helping another person get the dust out of their eye – makes me wonder how often I ignore His directive.
i thought he meant "GREASIEST." like a greased pig. so maybe it's got something to do with pork, like in leviticus.
I find it amazing how (as far as we know), God has created (not made - but created - totally new) only 3 types of beings, with a fourth to come: Angels, Adam, and Christ.
but what about the "great whales and every living creature?" doesn't gen 1:21 says he CREATED them, too? (it's the same word, right? bara'?)
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Cynic
Good one!
What was it Wierwille said man’s greatest spiritual problem was? I don’t remember.
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WordWolf
"The Integrity of God's Word-Man's Greatest Spiritual Problem."
He also claimed "the Greatest Secret in the World Today" is
"the Bible is the Revealed Word and Will of God",
which obviously was wrong because-if no one else-
thousands of pfal grads knew it,
but NOBODY knows the date and time of Jesus Christ's return.
Now THAT's a secret!
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Bramble
My opinion--man's greatest spiritual problem is believing that their own belief is the only true belief for all mankind, and unbelievers deserve to be punished.
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dancing
doctrines
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Sunesis
Separation from God.
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sirguessalot
...is never the same
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TheEvan
"Separation from God."
How does this differ from sin? Or is it simply a different aspect of the same thing.
The problem for antedelluvian man, for instance was sin, both outward (he did great evil) and inward (the thoughts of his heart were nly evil continually). I suppose you could call that separation from God. But so is death.
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sirguessalot
without context
any single answer seems but a word in the sand
as every word has its own story in every hearer
seems obvious to me tho...that mankind is experiencing a new set of spiritual problems, anyway
or rather...a cocktail of all previous spiritual problems...with a new twist, as always
thank the holy whatever this is that i have found that my spiritual problem really my most direct path to man's overall spiritual problem.
heerz 3 words have help me remember how to find out where my spiritual problem is today:
...curiousity
...precision
...compassion
these 3 seem to go best when applied as one
rather than alone
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sirguessalot
seperation from God seems to imply some sense of otherness between you and whatever you find yourself calling ultimate reality
much like the relationship of tree and leaf...ocean and raindrop
how radically different perspectives are equally true
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George Aar
Personally, I think man's greatest spiritual problem is believing there is something called "spirit".
That is, something that cannot be perceived by the senses, cannot be falsified, and can only be experienced, never proven.
Geeze Pete, we're well into the 21st century now, and with the evils of religion so apparent (and so DEADLY!) now, GAWD I wish we'd just snap out of it already.
It's all a joke people. And the joke's on us. We're all passengers on the same little planet. We only have a short life to live. Do we really need to spend so much time hating one another because we don't share the same superstitions?
If there IS some afterlife of some sort, we have no way of knowing about it so it's futile to speculate, and downright harmful to argue over.
So, here's an idea. Let's live like decent human beings, pulling our own weight and caring for one another as best we can, and if there is a remarkable next life, we'll be all ready for it anyway. And if there ain't, we won't know it.
I used to be somewhat ambivalent about religion. I figured "live and let live". If someone wants to believe in whatever metaphysical nonsense they choose, what difference does it make? That was until 9/11. I don't think that way anymore...
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dmiller
Interesting statement, Geo.
Hey -- I'm not gonna *preach* here, since you and I know where we both *stand*.
But what you said got me thinking.
I know you gave the *PC* definition of Spirit from twi, but while reading your response,
I found myself thinking *What if* it can be perceived by the senses.
When someone does a good deed for someone else, or:
when *out of the blue* a good thing happens to someone who didn't excpect it?
or when *prayer* from the most unlikely source shows up?
Meebe I am
here, but like I said -- it got me to thinking.
I've had good happen to me (as a result of folks I never considered spiritual)
and I know others have too.
And I (and the others) recognized the good, and maybe you just chalk that up to *kindness*.
I don't know. Perhaps that is recognizing the *Spirit*,
even though we were told it couldn't be done 5 senses-wise.
Just meandering in thought here,
and riding the third rock from the sun with you,
to who knows where!
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Sunesis
Separation from God is mankind's sin.
Mankind is a fallen race. Adam's sin was in eating of the tree of knowledge, i.e., a different knowledge than Gods. He could take of this knowledge that was offered and looked soooo much better, or he could freely receive that which God freely gave.
His choice: to take illegitimately, or to receive legitimately.
Only reunification with God via Christ enables us to enter into God.
Man is fallen - he can never be holy or clean enough to enter into God. Thus, the need for the free gift of life Christ came to offer.
"Sin" does not mean being a "bad" person or doing bad things - that is fallen man's nature, he cannot change. We are told there is no condemnation for having this sin nature.
The sin is in staying separated and fallen willfully.
Mankind's sin is separation from God.
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TheEvan
Thank you, Sunesis.
I'm a bit puzzled by:
"We are told there is no condemnation for having this sin nature."
Told by whom?
I understood that both sin (the nature) and sins (our disobedience) keep us separate from God.
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dancing
Well....I don't buy the fallen man deal.
I think it was a step forward and upward.
Death is not understood therefore the life that comes from it isn't either.
The first Adam compared to the last in so many places.
Wonder why.....
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templelady
lack of faith
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Sunesis
Hi Evan. I'm thinking of the scripture in Romans - who shall deliver us from this dead body? (sin nature)... there is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. I'm at work so I don't have my bible with me.
Years ago, it hit me - like a lightening bolt, that since we are covered and washed by Christ's blood, and, at this time since it is not revealed to us what we shall be when we enter into our perfection as a new creation - a son of God - there is still now, no condemnation to us for having our old man nature. Or for being a fallen race. The only condemnation comes when one rejects the one who has come to bring us to God as a new eternal creation.
Just as, if I wanted my cat to act more like my dog, no matter how hard kitty tries - he can't. In the same way, we can't. Our nature is fallen. Yet, we are not condemned for this, in fact, to any who asks, eternal life and the promise of being a new creation is given. That is Grace.
I find it amazing how (as far as we know), God has created (not made - but created - totally new) only 3 types of beings, with a fourth to come: Angels, Adam, and Christ. And now, presently the universe and all of creation groans waiting for the revelation of - the sons of God. The universe waits for us. We are to be a new creation - the 4th creation.
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TheEvan
I'm with you there. Thanks.
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Lifted Up
Why David, didn't you know?
If a Christian does something we like, it's just natural kindness, or "living like decent human beings." But if he/she does something we find distasteful, then we chalk it up to his/her religion.
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TheInvisibleDan
Behaving more like sheep than men.
Blind Obedience.
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Oakspear
Not being able to spell "greatest"
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dancing
what will be done is done, what has been done is yet to be discovered.
i can't see it, but it will be seen
where does the heart set itself
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T-Bone
From my Christian point of view I would have to agree with Evan. And in my humble opinion, I think it’s really a compound problem. We are a fallen race – sin being the corrupting virus that it is - has tainted every aspect of our being. So right from the get-go we have a pre-configured tendency to deviate from what is right. As Paul speaks of the sin that dwells in us [Romans 7:17]. Sin even skews our perception of things as Jesus spoke of in Matthew 7:3 the plank being in my eye. Which all means as we “perceive” our world and interact with it - we often do in fact deviate from doing what is right.
Christian author Jay Adams often addresses this compound problem [our sin nature and sinful tendencies] in his books that deal with counseling situations. For example, one Christian wrongs another. Sometimes the offended party may overreact, respond in kind, harbor a grudge, etc. Two wrongs don’t make a right. And it doesn’t minimize the first wrong by the offender. But it does complicate the situation for the counselor in terms of helping both parties towards reconciliation.
And in tying this in with WordWolf’s comments about what is the greatest secret in the world today. I would say for me personally is how do I see around this plank in my eye – without pulling it out? I’m sort of kidding here – but for Jesus to say we should first pull out the plank in our own eye before helping another person get the dust out of their eye – makes me wonder how often I ignore His directive.
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dancing
and if you are fallen what will rise you up
if you are fallen then who is it that raises?
and what does he raise except what has already been done
if you conclude that man is a fallen 'race'
then how is it that you can come out of this condition?
who started this race anyway?
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sprawled out
i thought he meant "GREASIEST." like a greased pig. so maybe it's got something to do with pork, like in leviticus.
but what about the "great whales and every living creature?" doesn't gen 1:21 says he CREATED them, too? (it's the same word, right? bara'?)
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