That sort of thing makes me sick to the gut. I would have hoped there would be just as many people clamouring and threatening to riot for the 'show to go on'.
But alas, Joe Blow is busy at work earning money to provide for his family etcc...and not enough 'time on his hands' like these other scumbags that get out and burn effigies in their streets.
In this TWI was way ahead of its time. In the mid 80's i was listening to Mozarts Requiem and got a very stern lecture from a Corps Guy who happened to walk in, his neck was popping and he was spewing about devils, then took the cassette and trashed it like a real man
Halfwit.
( thats about .49 of a wit too generous..)
Its all religious stupidity and closemindedness, but if the Opera Company has genuine security concerns, it doesnt seem like it would be a huge deal to drop the prop of Mohammed's severed head from the scene, given that the Opera takes place in ancient Greece a thousand years before Mohammed was born. Id be curious if it was originally written in or if it is a modern addition for dramatic effect
Well, it is tradition now for Groucho to call people that disagree with him "Bush apologists", but that is based on nothing. In this case there seem to be many Islam apologists ... people that are defending the intimidation by Islam on non muslims participating in the arts.
Oeno' says what next ... Jews threatening death and mayhem if the merchant of Venice is played. LG rightly points out that it is not the Jews, it is Islam that is demanding others submit even in their own lifestyles.
Then there are the comparisons to TWI ... but that is what twi demands of its own members. I don't know that twi has ever demanded the general population submit or they would kill them.
All this is just Islam apologism at its worst. Muslims are demanding that those outside the muslim faith submit to their demands, or they will kill them. And even those that disagree feel the need to imply they are no worse than twi or the jews.
You guys are already submitting. Now go ahead and explain to me in condescending tones that it is only a handful of Muslims doing this. What matters is that free people are beginning to submit. It is a bad habit to start.
May I at this time offer an apology if my post may have been poorly constructed and therefore misunderstood.
I did not mean to imply that TWI had invoked death threats on the general populace.
While I was active in THE WAY, the words to "Amazing Grace" were changed from "saved a wretch like me" to "saved someone like me".
One whole verse of "How Great Thou Art",was completely ignored.
Christmas was changed to Household Holidays and Easter became Resurection Sunday.
The list goes on but the point I was making was that changing words or avoiding mention of the past does not erase its' existance.
Al Jolson's use of "black face" would obviously be totally unacceptable in todays' society but does that mean we should pretend it never happened?
Juggling of words has been going on since language came into existance and thus my comment that refered to the place in Ecclesiastes where it says "There is nothing new under the sun".
I do think it would be fair to expect the stage presentation to be at least historically accurate regardless of political or religious beliefs.
It has nothing to do with TWI, nor is it anything like anything done in TWI.
It's not "all religious stupidity and closemindedness."
It might not be a big deal to drop the Mohammed's head prop, which was not part of the original Opera, but is part of that particular production of it, but doing so would not change the main issue in this matter.
The production of Idomeneo was not cancelled because of fear of offending Muslims. It was cancelled because of fear of death and destruction from radical, murderous Muslims. The fear is legitimate, because the threat is real. Such a threat is not associated with any other major religious or ethnic group, except the radical fringe of Islam.
All this is just Islam apologism at its worst. Muslims are demanding that those outside the muslim faith submit to their demands, or they will kill them. And even those that disagree feel the need to imply they are no worse than twi or the jews.
You guys are already submitting. Now go ahead and explain to me in condescending tones that it is only a handful of Muslims doing this. What matters is that free people are beginning to submit. It is a bad habit to start.
Rhino,
Are you making your case for another Crusade? Are Jews more worse off than Christians?
I will not speak in condescending tones but I will speak from my experience of having known Muslims. I found them all most hospitable. They never made conversion (a la TWI) to Islam a condition of friendship. They never argued with me about religion even when I ( when afficted with waybrain) pushed the envelope with them.
I DO draw a distinction between them (and the majority of Muslims in the world) and the radical Islamists who are blinded by their hatred of anything that is not what they are about. (Perhaps as ex-way people, we can relate.) I will not be burning any books by Salmon Rushdie or Omar Khayhim in protest.
Small minds (I am not referring to you, Rhino) tend to reduce ethno/racial/international situations to black and white, us and them. I can understand why. They do it in order to get their small minds around complex issues.
In this TWI was way ahead of its time. In the mid 80's i was listening to Mozarts Requiem and got a very stern lecture from a Corps Guy who happened to walk in, his neck was popping and he was spewing about devils, then took the cassette and trashed it like a real man
Mstar,
The corpse guy had the IQ of a gnat. I would have told him to gfy. I love Mozart.
I see now this is in the open thread, I'd assumed it was in politics.
But the simple point is there are many instances where free society is curtailing its freedoms based on lunatic demands by the radical part of Islam. The cartoon wars is a good example. Very few media outlets ever showed the controversial cartoons, out of "respect" for Islam. Yet vile depictions of Jesus are OK. It is really not about respect, it is fear of retaliation, hence it is submission. It happens gradually, step by step. This is really not that complex of an issue.
It is good that (if?) a majority of the billion Muslims are peaceful, but there is a problem with their warrior doctrine. Hopefully the "westernized" version will become dominant, but with a country like Iran getting the bomb and being led by a more radical type, it seems terrorism could increase geometrically.
The reason this is in the news is it is another case of "dhimmitude" ... the attitude of submission being the safest route. That so many responses here were loathe to take that on, but rather quick to compare it to other religions that are not a threat, seems somewhat "frightening" to me.
As to mstar's blah blah blah comment ... I am "offended" at your suggestion the west should submit early and often. This is not throwing gas on an inferno, this is about not submitting when someone demands you obey or they will burn down your house. You suggest it is easier and prudent to submit ... I agree it is easier, but it sends the wrong message ... the message being that the west is weak, a paper tiger that will back down at the hint of a threat.
The same response for oeno's suggestion that I want a crusade. If the west doesn't change it's culture to mollify radical Islam ... that is tantamount to a crusade?
The reason this is in the news is it is another case of "dhimmitude" ... the attitude of submission being the safest route. That so many responses here were loathe to take that on, but rather quick to compare it to other religions that are not a threat, seems somewhat "frightening" to me.
I am frightened by submission also, especially the submission of the American people to the daily erosion of civil liberties.
WASHINGTON – While most of the reporting and analysis of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's speech at the U.N. focused on what he had to say about the West and specifically the U.S., his chilling closing remarks were lost on most listeners – and apparently all reporters.
The last two paragraphs of his remarks revealed his steadfast and driving conviction, as previously reported in WND ,that a messianic figure, known as the "Mahdi" to Muslims, is poised to reveal himself after an apocalyptic holocaust on Earth that leaves most of the world's population dead.
"I emphatically declare that today's world, more than ever before, longs for just and righteous people with love for all humanity; and above all longs for the perfect righteous human being and the real savior who has been promised to all peoples and who will establish justice, peace and brotherhood on the planet," Ahmadinejad said. "Oh, Almighty God, all men and women are your creatures and you have ordained their guidance and salvation. Bestow upon humanity that thirsts for justice, the perfect human being promised to all by you, and make us among his followers and among those who strive for his return and his cause."
Rhino is 'bang on the button'. The flame has been lit and fanned; at some point it will need to be doused unless the world is happy to get accustomed to living in fear (which it sounds like some of you already are ).
Kit...veeerry interesting. I can't wait for the 'Messiah' to arrive either. It's either going to be our Jesus or their 'mahdji'. Either way, one lot of either group is going to be in s hit street.
Oh, I get it...'their' savior arrives AFTER our savior has been to collect us.
Not all terrorists are easily recognizable by their physical appearance. Consider the Oklahoma City bombers, Mcvey and Nichols. Would it make sense to bomb their hometowns"just in case"? That question is ,of course, rhetorical.
Not all terrorists are easily recognizable by their physical appearance. Consider the Oklahoma City bombers, Mcvey and Nichols. Would it make sense to bomb their hometowns"just in case"? That question is ,of course, rhetorical.
It's also irrelevant. McVey and Nichols had nothing to do with the so-called War on Terror, which is really a fight against the murderous, radical elements of Islam.
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LG
You've got the issue wrong. It's not fear of offending groups in general. It's fear of one particular group.
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GarthP2000
... same 'principle'.
<_<
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allan w.
That sort of thing makes me sick to the gut. I would have hoped there would be just as many people clamouring and threatening to riot for the 'show to go on'.
But alas, Joe Blow is busy at work earning money to provide for his family etcc...and not enough 'time on his hands' like these other scumbags that get out and burn effigies in their streets.
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mstar1
In this TWI was way ahead of its time. In the mid 80's i was listening to Mozarts Requiem and got a very stern lecture from a Corps Guy who happened to walk in, his neck was popping and he was spewing about devils, then took the cassette and trashed it like a real man
Halfwit.
( thats about .49 of a wit too generous..)
Its all religious stupidity and closemindedness, but if the Opera Company has genuine security concerns, it doesnt seem like it would be a huge deal to drop the prop of Mohammed's severed head from the scene, given that the Opera takes place in ancient Greece a thousand years before Mohammed was born. Id be curious if it was originally written in or if it is a modern addition for dramatic effect
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waysider
Let's see now--------We change "Amazing Grace" to reflect TWI ideology. We change "How Great Thou art to reflect TWI ideology.---------
There is nothing new under the sun------------
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rhino
Well, it is tradition now for Groucho to call people that disagree with him "Bush apologists", but that is based on nothing. In this case there seem to be many Islam apologists ... people that are defending the intimidation by Islam on non muslims participating in the arts.
Oeno' says what next ... Jews threatening death and mayhem if the merchant of Venice is played. LG rightly points out that it is not the Jews, it is Islam that is demanding others submit even in their own lifestyles.
Then there are the comparisons to TWI ... but that is what twi demands of its own members. I don't know that twi has ever demanded the general population submit or they would kill them.
All this is just Islam apologism at its worst. Muslims are demanding that those outside the muslim faith submit to their demands, or they will kill them. And even those that disagree feel the need to imply they are no worse than twi or the jews.
You guys are already submitting. Now go ahead and explain to me in condescending tones that it is only a handful of Muslims doing this. What matters is that free people are beginning to submit. It is a bad habit to start.
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mstar1
blah blah blah...
If you think its a good idea to walk into an inferno carrying gasoline then have at it.
Your free to do so and have the right, go right ahead maybe nothing will happen
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waysider
May I at this time offer an apology if my post may have been poorly constructed and therefore misunderstood.
I did not mean to imply that TWI had invoked death threats on the general populace.
While I was active in THE WAY, the words to "Amazing Grace" were changed from "saved a wretch like me" to "saved someone like me".
One whole verse of "How Great Thou Art",was completely ignored.
Christmas was changed to Household Holidays and Easter became Resurection Sunday.
The list goes on but the point I was making was that changing words or avoiding mention of the past does not erase its' existance.
Al Jolson's use of "black face" would obviously be totally unacceptable in todays' society but does that mean we should pretend it never happened?
Juggling of words has been going on since language came into existance and thus my comment that refered to the place in Ecclesiastes where it says "There is nothing new under the sun".
I do think it would be fair to expect the stage presentation to be at least historically accurate regardless of political or religious beliefs.
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LG
It's not the "same principle."
It has nothing to do with TWI, nor is it anything like anything done in TWI.
It's not "all religious stupidity and closemindedness."
It might not be a big deal to drop the Mohammed's head prop, which was not part of the original Opera, but is part of that particular production of it, but doing so would not change the main issue in this matter.
The production of Idomeneo was not cancelled because of fear of offending Muslims. It was cancelled because of fear of death and destruction from radical, murderous Muslims. The fear is legitimate, because the threat is real. Such a threat is not associated with any other major religious or ethnic group, except the radical fringe of Islam.
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oenophile
Are you making your case for another Crusade? Are Jews more worse off than Christians?
I will not speak in condescending tones but I will speak from my experience of having known Muslims. I found them all most hospitable. They never made conversion (a la TWI) to Islam a condition of friendship. They never argued with me about religion even when I ( when afficted with waybrain) pushed the envelope with them.
I DO draw a distinction between them (and the majority of Muslims in the world) and the radical Islamists who are blinded by their hatred of anything that is not what they are about. (Perhaps as ex-way people, we can relate.) I will not be burning any books by Salmon Rushdie or Omar Khayhim in protest.
Small minds (I am not referring to you, Rhino) tend to reduce ethno/racial/international situations to black and white, us and them. I can understand why. They do it in order to get their small minds around complex issues.
Mstar,
The corpse guy had the IQ of a gnat. I would have told him to gfy. I love Mozart.
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rhino
I see now this is in the open thread, I'd assumed it was in politics.
But the simple point is there are many instances where free society is curtailing its freedoms based on lunatic demands by the radical part of Islam. The cartoon wars is a good example. Very few media outlets ever showed the controversial cartoons, out of "respect" for Islam. Yet vile depictions of Jesus are OK. It is really not about respect, it is fear of retaliation, hence it is submission. It happens gradually, step by step. This is really not that complex of an issue.
It is good that (if?) a majority of the billion Muslims are peaceful, but there is a problem with their warrior doctrine. Hopefully the "westernized" version will become dominant, but with a country like Iran getting the bomb and being led by a more radical type, it seems terrorism could increase geometrically.
The reason this is in the news is it is another case of "dhimmitude" ... the attitude of submission being the safest route. That so many responses here were loathe to take that on, but rather quick to compare it to other religions that are not a threat, seems somewhat "frightening" to me.
As to mstar's blah blah blah comment ... I am "offended" at your suggestion the west should submit early and often. This is not throwing gas on an inferno, this is about not submitting when someone demands you obey or they will burn down your house. You suggest it is easier and prudent to submit ... I agree it is easier, but it sends the wrong message ... the message being that the west is weak, a paper tiger that will back down at the hint of a threat.
The same response for oeno's suggestion that I want a crusade. If the west doesn't change it's culture to mollify radical Islam ... that is tantamount to a crusade?
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oenophile
I am frightened by submission also, especially the submission of the American people to the daily erosion of civil liberties.
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Kit Sober
Well it's not a two-way thing.
Muslims don't inhibit themselves out of respect for others. (We paid this guy's expenses to come to US and our President hosted him.)
That guy who visited the USA and addressed the UN general assemby prayed in the name of Axxxx for their prophet to visit the world.
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rhino
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Nottawayfer
Shouldn't this be in the political forum??
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allan w.
Rhino is 'bang on the button'. The flame has been lit and fanned; at some point it will need to be doused unless the world is happy to get accustomed to living in fear (which it sounds like some of you already are ).
Kit...veeerry interesting. I can't wait for the 'Messiah' to arrive either. It's either going to be our Jesus or their 'mahdji'. Either way, one lot of either group is going to be in s hit street.
Oh, I get it...'their' savior arrives AFTER our savior has been to collect us.
Thanks for that interesting snippet Kit. !
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coolchef
bomb them all and make thier part of the world the 51st state
sorry the good ones have to go with the bad
we should not have to bow to thier theats and if they were gone we wouldn't
now you may all bomb me but thats ok
a little rag head grows up to be a big one
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HAPe4me
This disgusting terminology isn't worth the artillery. (sigh) Chef, you are of a higher order than this pap, I truely believe.
~HAP
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coolchef
you must remember when japan was screwing with us we put the big one on them
they made themselves better for it
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waysider
Not all terrorists are easily recognizable by their physical appearance. Consider the Oklahoma City bombers, Mcvey and Nichols. Would it make sense to bomb their hometowns"just in case"? That question is ,of course, rhetorical.
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LG
It's also irrelevant. McVey and Nichols had nothing to do with the so-called War on Terror, which is really a fight against the murderous, radical elements of Islam.
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allan w.
that's close to what I said before Chef...these pigs only respect one thing, someone with a big stick and the b alls to swing it..if the need arises.
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oenophile
No bomb needed here. The words speak for themselves.
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