aa

[outofdafog]

cman - your posts are very enlightening

i guess my problem is similar to what the wikipedia states about the "dry drunk".......

Dry drunk is a term used, often disparagingly, by members of Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) and by substance abuse counselors who subscribe to the AA theory of alcoholism to describe the recovering alcoholic who is no longer drinking but whose thought processes are considered to continue to be distorted by the thought patterns of addiction.

This is what I meant by the constant confession of "hi my name is cman, and I am an alcoholic."

In no way shape or form am I judging you or anyone else who has chosen AA. I admire you for doing what is right for you. I understand much of what you are saying because I have heard it from my brother many times. I d believe AA saved his life.

I have dealt with alcoholism since I was a young girl. My father was a "functional" alcoholic. My brother was unable to function from his addiction. My oldest brother drinks wine constantly, but he is not really an alcoholic. In order to be an alcoholic, you must drink beer like my father did. He is kidding himself. My sister is the kind who calls you in the middle of the night and cries when she is drunk. She is the current born-again non-smoker in our family. In our family, because my father was an alcoholic, if a person takes a drink, they now are an alcoholic, according to my siblings. Within the past year, my brother also came across this way and it turned me off. He constantly judges now, others who are on the alcohol and drugs. I wrote him a nice long letter explaining to him not to forget where he came from.

Recently, I asked my husband to move out because he is a "functioning alcoholic" (somewhere I heard this term and it just made so much sense to me). He has to drink anywhere between a 12 pack and an 18 pack every night, seven days a week..........he holds a full time job down and doesn't drink when working, but every night, he has to have his beer.

This is difficult because it has been going on for so long, but when the beer money becomes more important than anything else, then I think we have a problem......

I am only trying to understand this disorder (I prefer that term over disease). I think the word disease often connotes that we are unable to be in control. That this disease overtakes us and we use that as an excuse if and when we might fall off the wagon.

Just trying to understand.............

P.S. Hey excie, love ya,

Edited December 8, 2006 by outofdafog

[frickafrack]

those were some good posts, cman

"..... better attitude and a change in my life....."

it's not the bottle...it's the mind

you are either celebrating or drowning in drama

or casually toasting the newlyweds with expensive champagne or jesus' miracle wine

look around at the next aa meeting

it's not a good representation of the people of the world that enjoy alcoholic drinks

in other words....if you are downing cheap CANS of beer that make your increasingly more frequent trips down to the bathroom more adventurous ...then....wrong attitude....buy expensive, quality beer in a bottle that has been brewed for centuries and savor it.....and thank God someone had the love/passion

if you drink 6 dollar liquor in a plastic bottle till you're ready to get behind the wheel and

screech the tires....um....wrong attitude

i recently saw a 1600 dollar bottle of whiskey or something wood aged....the people that buy it are obviously not "about to lose their job and family"....maybe, who knows...i've some seen crazy stuff

like you said its about "attitude"

from my own experience, the smaller number of people that "drink" really have any problem

many people don't drink just because they don't care to

many more people drink because they like to

very few don't drink but want to....or sneak it.....or lie about it....your local aa chapter maybe?

my advice? if you want to quit drinking and CAN"T...go to aa...it could help...it's someplace they won't let you drink right there!

but enjoying alcohol and living a good, happy/enjoyable life seems to be an option...at least for me and many others on this planet

you have to find in you what causes excessive, destructive drinking and eliminate THAT!

nuthin but love for you, cman

you came in kinda strong with the alcohol repentance

above all things, be true to thyself

I hope the drinkers AND the non-drinkers on this forum appreciate what i'm saying

the larger part of my life is spent trying help others and i usually get burned/hurt/lied to and/or about...that's not gonna stop me...i lean toward celebrating life and smiling

CHEERS...NO TEARS! quote: Tom Maze

edit: cman, where did this come from in you? or what does it mean?

btw-JonnyLingo

That was another thing that would cause me to drink sometimes.

Someone not responding to my post.

Thanks for what you posted.

Also I know I missed thanking many personally for their input.

Shellon, You are always listened to by me.

edit

The ones I see anyway...lol...sorry-sounded like a stalker or something-i'm not.

not responding to your post!? What? you've gotten an unusual amount of attention since you "joined", cman

"...lol...sorry-sounded like a stalker or something-i'm not" What!? cman, there have been stalkers here...and maybe are currently and it shouldn't be taken lightly ...... I'n my area there is 24 hour AA meetings with a published list of locations...hope there is in your area....get off the internet and put down that beer and go to aa ....j/k....finish the beer first

it's all about the attitude ...i agree with you

Edited December 8, 2006 by frickafrack

[cman]

outofdafog and even frickafrack

listen closely and silently please

i crave release from the symptoms and that relief had come from alcohol

i got addicted to it-mind and body

the craving turned to craving for alcohol

a change happened-a bad change

term it what you like it is more then just a passing problem that can be remedied in a day

i am working on reversing this process

there is no quick answer to this major problem

i do not like saying i am an alcoholic

but i have to be honest

so yes i became one and am one

perhaps one day i will be able to say i'm not

i pray that day comes

when it is said in the meeting and to myself

it is to remind me of where i am and what i'm doing

focusing on alcoholism is what aa does

it is it's primary and only purpose

the problems that cause alcoholism are not fully known

so the solution is not fully known either

aa has come the closest to helping people stop drinking for life

and stop the drowning person, the dieing life that is before them

i do not want to have another drink again as long as i live in this life

that's me

i will get relief from the symptoms without alcohol or drugs

aa is helping me find the answers

a power greater then myself-a power greater then aa

that's what i'm going to get-and am getting even now

whatever anyone else wants to do is their business-not mine

i know what i need to do and will do it

and i am learning more everyday

even if i wasn't an alcoholic

these answers would still be helping me

the answers are from a power greater then myself

people are helping to point me to this power

[cman]

and frickafrack,

i have been with greasespotcafe for more then 6 years

changed names i think 5 times

cause i change too

and i get tired of the same name sometimes

but that's me

[frickafrack]

and frickafrack,

i have been with greasespotcafe for more then 6 years

changed names i think 5 times

cause i change too

and i get tired of the same name sometimes

but that's me

i have and do fully support your efforts to get help ....good talkin with ya...again?

Edited December 8, 2006 by frickafrack

[cman]

on the subject of drugs

sometimes doctors and prescriptions are needed for people

this is not discouraged at all, but needed for some people

some of the people are under a doctors care for various things,

physically and psychologically

[frickafrack]

on the subject of drugs

sometimes doctors and prescriptions are needed for people

this is not discouraged at all, but needed for some people

some of the people are under a doctors care for various things,

physically and psychologically

lol....you must be an "Anonymous" User cuz you keep posting but your name's not down there

6 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 2 Anonymous Users)

4 Members: frickafrack, outofdafog, BikerBabe, ChasUFarley

Time for my after dinner cordial ....c ya

btw, "on the subject of drugs" ...i ran across some blonde hashish that i haven't seen the likes of in nearly thirty years ...pricey compared to back then...but....skip the 'scrip pip

Edited December 8, 2006 by frickafrack

[outofdafog]

so....what is your point frickinfrack ?

[frickafrack]

so....what is your point frickinfrack ?

my point? The Point...if you haven't ever seen it, rent it TOMORROW!

you can call me Obleo....me and my arrow

everything has a point ...even the pointless forest...even pointless drinking...that's what cman is realizing...it has a point

Edited December 8, 2006 by frickafrack

[dmiller]

If cman is one of the anonymous folks here, I'm the other.

[frickafrack]

If cman is one of the anonymous folks here, I'm the other.

you're going to AA too!?.....schidt! ... "all my rowdy friends have settled down"

[dmiller]

you're going to AA too!?.....schidt! ... "all my rowdy friends have settled down"

No -- not going to AA, (though I probably should).

Quitting on your own is harder than I thought, though still *do-able* (for me)..

All I meant was I was one of the anonymous viewers of this thread. :)

[frickafrack]

Dave, i've been sitting here all night with a guitar in my lap....reading this stuff....eating ...drinking...and working on a song i was "commissioned" to write called "I Heard That"...it could be a USA lovin, truck drivin, Nascar watchin, towelhead hatin, smashed my car, hit my girl, drank too much Bud, thank you jesus ...radio hit! That's what the marketers are going for...personally, it makes me feel a little dirty, but, there's so much truth to exposing the lie...i think it should be heard.."I heard that!"

you get the idea....you'd have to slow down that pickin a bit to get the feel right...don't ya know

btw, all you beautiful peeps....i'm takin credit for my life....you should too

Edited December 8, 2006 by frickafrack

[dmiller]

Your writing a tune called *I Heard That*??? Get the CB Radio in there.

*I Heard That* is the most common phrase I hear on the CB, when traveling.

You could take a song ANY direction with a phrase like that, incorporating the CB

as the catalyst for the *message* you might come up with, for the body of the tune.

(Just my IMO).

Good luck!! ;)

[frickafrack]

Your writing a tune called *I Heard That*??? Get the CB Radio in there.

*I Heard That* is the most common phrase I hear on the CB, when traveling.

You could take a song ANY direction with a phrase like that, incorporating the CB

as the catalyst for the *message* you might come up with, for the body of the tune.

(Just my IMO).

Good luck!! ;)

some people would be sorely upset with me if you stole the idea...maybe we could get you to play some on the song....i do thank you for the CB idea....that had not come up, but it's good....i do have some creative control and one of the other musicians is all about sampling voices...so, it might work

"breaker, breaker......got your ears on?"

kill a muslim for Jesus...or pray for another tsunami...gets confusing....yeah, "I Heard That!"

Edited December 8, 2006 by frickafrack

[frickafrack]

sorry....... music, good times, creativity, excitement, lovin life

edited to put space between "lovin life" and

Edited December 8, 2006 by frickafrack

[DrtyDzn]

i crave release from the symptoms and that relief had come from alcohol

I'm assuming you mean the symptoms of the disease of alcoholism. Its supposedly these symptoms that are still present even after quitting that produces a dry drunk. AA may help some people with these symptoms, but there are some AA meetings(they're all different to some degree) that preach that the program is the [/i]only way and must be done for life. 12 steps to the grave.

I also wonder if these symptoms are supposed to be peculiar to alcoholics or are common to man.

Jerry

[dmiller]

some people would be sorely upset with me if you stole the idea...maybe we could get you to play some on the song....i do thank you for the CB idea....that had not come up, but it's good....i do have some creative control and one of the other musicians is all about sampling voices...so, it might work

I was going with *first thought*. It's yours to use. No infringements involved.

Now -- back to cman, and his thread, eh??? ;)

[dmiller]

I also wonder if these symptoms are supposed to be peculiar to alcoholics or are common to man.

DrtyDzn -- if I have one beer, I will be looking for the next 12.

I don't think that is common to most, but it is common to me.

And it runs in my family. Other folks can have one drink, and let it go.

I have to practice total abstinance (sp?). For me (and others like cman) it's the only way to go.

Whether or not it is peculiar to alcoholics is a moot point for the likes of us.

Results (positive results) are what we are looking for,

with deliverance from bad choices made in the past.

[oenophile]

As a purveyor of alcohol (wine and microbrews / imported beers) to restaurants and retail establishments, I do struggle with the question on occasion, what is the difference between me and a drug dealer other than my drug is legal. I realize that how people choose to use my products is their choice - up to to a point. From people I have known with alcohol problems I understand that there are no choice after the first drink. Yet, is the farmer reponsible for national obesity crisis? Is the model responsible for eating disorders of the girl who would love to emulate her? Was my tobacco farmer uncle responsible for my mother's death of COPD and congestive heart failure? It was her decision to smoke 2-3 packs a day for 40 years. Or was it?

Addiction is a sticky and stigmatized subject. I contend that all of us are addicted to something. I have my addictions, even though alcohol and drugs are not among them. I realize that my finding a quick and easy way to access the reward center of my brain in order to protect me the slings and arrows of everyday life carries the same potential to wreak destruction within me and in the lives of those around me.

Anyone have any thoughts on my ramblings?

Edited December 8, 2006 by oenophile

[simonzelotes]

Anyone have any thoughts on my ramblings?

I know a girl who worked as a Camel cigarette distributor...Then after trying real hard she got a job as a Budweiser distributor because it paid more money...Eventually,she hopes to move up to guns and,finally,get exclusive rights to be the state distributor for Dr. Kevorkian's suicide machine...

Steppenwolf never sang the song "Goddamn the liquor salesman"...It's interesting how public perception of something changes because one thing is legal and the other is not....Because there is no Prohibition,purveyers of alcoholic beverages no longer have to kill eachother for control of a particular territory like the mobsters used to...As far as society and the law are concerned,the end user(drinker) is the person who carries the responsibility for it's use or abuse...With illegal drugs,while the user is certainly looked down upon,...the dealer is known as a 'pusher'----the evilest of all bad guys---In the meantime the Super bowl is laden with commercials of the coolest people on earth having the time of their lives with a Bud Lite in their hands...Makes you think about the true definition of 'pusher'....

One of the reasons alcoholics seem to be growing in number is because liquor is so cheap and accessable...A person can live in a flophouse next door to a 7-11 and for ten bucks a day,or so,get a good daily dosage of rotgut liquor or a few 40-ouncers and live in a daily euphoric,stupefying bliss...An addiction to alcohol seems to sneak up on a person much slower than addictions to most illegal drugs...Or maybe it just seems that way to the addict...

Any alcohol or drug addiction is a crutch,and then some,...so if one is worried about AA being a crutch,then so be it,I would think it would be an improvement...Nevertheless,eventually the addict will need to address his need,or desire for a crutch in the first place...I'm sure the 12 steps can be very helpful...I guess my question would be if they were a way of life or a means to an end...

[ChattyKathy]

This thread is incredible.

My heart and prayers to all myself included.

Pond, is your hobby of choice being obstinate?

[pond]

Alcohol is sometimes used to "self medicate". With the advance of anti anxiety and more and more anti depressants available to help, one can hope other sources are available to help a person cope without having to use alcohol as a drug to seek relief.

hippa laws have helped remove the stigma of seeking mental health therapy, and alcohol is less accepted in our culture as a solution to issues of the thought processes and mental health.

The fact is tho it is accpeted in our society to drink alcohol during youth.. the stats of young drinkers (under age) abusing alcohol is very alarming .

Many still believe it is a "stage" they will grow out of" everyone does it when they are in college or a young adult sadly many get past the "stage" and struggle untill they can no longer cope with what it has done to life for them.

Oen

I think your business in sales is a good one.. the fact some refuse to take responsibility for their behaviours or never learned how is not your responsibility. I firmly believe even if all alcohol was out lawed those inclined to abuse it would make it and sell it and do what they want with it. I get why you feel a sense of responsibility for the product to be used with common sense but can we really police the world in the sense of how a person behaves in their own life? addicts are master of blame and denial .

Edited December 8, 2006 by pond

[cman]

oenophile

I have no problem with what you do at all.

Just for me I won't drink anymore and still haven't.

I do not like alcohol being promoted to be drank in excess.

Don't really matter to me who they are, they have their own things to deal with.

None of my business.

pond

So are you saying that alcohol is a problem or not?

And your comment-

addicts are master of blame and denial

Is not true of those working what AA has to offer.

And Physicians and Doctors and even Patients know that after a while the prescription will not work and even sometimes starts to work in reverse. So those must also be constantly maintained.

I don't want prescriptions unless I have to have them.

So the plan is for me one day at a time.

And various other things.

Because I've missed out on the bigger picture at times.

Don't want to anymore.

----

Figured out that this nervousness I experience at times is really fear.

So working on love more and staying thankful.

I have not seen any self-righteous attitudes at all in AA.

I think a lot of them don't realize what great people they are.

We are our own worst enemy sometimes.

Love your enemies too.

One Day At A Time

Edited December 11, 2006 by cman

[ChasUFarley]

As a purveyor of alcohol (wine and microbrews / imported beers) to restaurants and retail establishments, I do struggle with the question on occasion, what is the difference between me and a drug dealer other than my drug is legal. I realize that how people choose to use my products is their choice - up to to a point. From people I have known with alcohol problems I understand that there are no choice after the first drink. Yet, is the farmer reponsible for national obesity crisis? Is the model responsible for eating disorders of the girl who would love to emulate her? Was my tobacco farmer uncle responsible for my mother's death of COPD and congestive heart failure? It was her decision to smoke 2-3 packs a day for 40 years. Or was it?

Addiction is a sticky and stigmatized subject. I contend that all of us are addicted to something. I have my addictions, even though alcohol and drugs are not among them. I realize that my finding a quick and easy way to access the reward center of my brain in order to protect me the slings and arrows of everyday life carries the same potential to wreak destruction within me and in the lives of those around me.

Anyone have any thoughts on my ramblings?

I started bartending when I was 16 years old. I lived in Maine, where this is perfectly legal, just as long as you have a manager in the bar or restaurant who is 18 years old. The legal drinking age in Maine was (and still is) 21 years old. :blink:

I went to school for it - I am a certified Mixologist. I still have my certificate, although it's been quite a while since I've tended bar. My first husband was an alcoholic and a corporate TWI person - he would not allow me to tend bar. I have worked some parties and weddings, just for fun and a little extra $.

I am the bartender who keeps tally of how many drinks you've ordered - like my life depends on it. Don't ask me for 2 Long Island Iced Teas within 2 hours - you won't get the second one. I will shut you off and I don't care how ....ed off you get. I won't let you order a bunch of drinks and then let you lug them to a table where your 19 year old girlfriend will try to suck it down, because I will alert the manager to what you are doing. I would card my own mother. Hell, I don't let people drive from parties that I have in my own home if I feel they've had a beer too many - I'll make them wait it out - and coffee doesn't sober up anyone - that's a myth. Time is the cure for that ailment.

The reps who sell the liqour, like oenophile, to the restaurants are not the problem. The servers who will not act responsibilly are the bigger issue - I have seen them cower when someone acts like they "might" get upset, or seen them cater to the customer in hopes they'll get a better tip, because they feel they'll loose their tip if they shut off a guest. Personally, I don't remember loosing that many tips or ....ing off that many people - most just took it in stride.

Ultimately, it's the responsibility of the consumer - but the server can help enforce the consumer's duty to their responsibility if their judgement is impared.