Looking at the reports, it is my impression that individuals or organizations listed there are by cumulative donations. In other words, the total of what has been given over the years. TWI may have given that money 20 years ago, or have been giving $5,000 per year over the last 20 years.
If I had to guess, it was given as a bribe years ago in an attempt to get accreditation for their corpse program.
I think you're right, GT. it looks like it is cumulative. in 2003 they're listed as a gift-in-kind donor as well.
I wonder..... does anyone know the names of some of the folks on staff at HQ? Particularly ones who couldn't afford to send their kids to college? :unsure:
I'm going to really upset some. I talked to a friend who sits on the foundation board for a western college and I was informed that even though it may say cumulative, that applies to THAT year. If the information is in one or more reports, it is because that much was donated EACH YEAR!!!!!
So, it looks like someone's kids are having a good old time with our $$$. Belle, you or potato may be able to dig a bit deeper on this. I don't have the contacts I used to. I think they have been scared away from talking to me due to what I've been into because of them.....
Here is a link for Lakeland College Annual Fund Donor Honor Roll if you scroll down to 1962 there is a entry for Donald Wierwille. No amount given but it was a honor roll of donors so I would think it was substantial. Wanda Don's wife was Wanda Stroshein looks like a typo on her name they were married in 1962. V.P.Wierwille attended at Lakeland and I believe also Don. He graduated high school in 1958 so that would be about the right date .
Looks like money was going to schools for a long time..... This would seem to fit with the line from the Passing of the Patriarch page 60 where VP says "I sure don't know why Donnie isn't blessed and thankful; we bought him his doctorate. I know he received his doctorate from KU here in Kansas, but it does shed some light on that statement.
I distinctly remember LCM saying again and again and again: "If your children want to go to college, they should earn scholarships or work and pay their own way. DO NOT take out a college loan or any other kind of loan for them. If they can't afford to go to college, they should plan another way to earn a living." I believe he also mentioned the stupidity of a liberal arts education. Then he also said people should never get a college degree so they could earn a better living.
Then his own child goes to college and majors in music?????
How contradictory is that?
However, from 1973-1996, I would have considered it a most exceedingly great and a mighty and a completely unspeakable privilege to be allowed the honor of paying for his three childrens' education. As an innie, I pretty much bought into the whole picture. I expect if you could get the list and send this information off all the present innies, they would not be too upset.
I expect if you could get the list and send this information off all the present innies, they would not be too upset.
WG
Perhaps. But if I were an innie, I'd want to know that some money is going to college tuitions. At that point I could decide.
Maybe what happened is this:
TWI staffers got / get salaries on a needs basis.
Is it possible that the college tuition donations were worked into the salaries of those staffers?
Meaning, they had a "need" to send their children to college, thereby having twi send tuition monies to those colleges to be applied to the children of the staffers?
That might explain all that and it be all legal.
I do question the double standard of it all however.
I don't think the average staffer could afford to send his/her kids to college. I seriously doubt, in light of the quotes above I wrote of, that a lowly staffer's child was considered worthy of attending college. However, the MOG's daughter went to Bowling Green State University, and apparently someone's kids went to UT.
Whatever, it is yet another double standard, as you said, Oldies. It's sad...I knew one couple whose firstborn was absolutely brilliant, yet they placed no value on higher education, and I expect after high school graduation a couple years back, he went WD and WC like a good little brainwashed kiddie.
Gosh, it chaps my arse that we were needed on the front lines, while lcm`s and other big wig kiddoes are not required to pay their dues...aka classes, wow, corpes, assignments in order to be well pleasing to God.
We lived on a shoe string budget, giving everything above need for the movement of God`s word, not to mention our homes, our resources, our time in outreach and bringing in more income for them. All in order to see to it that their kids get a college education and can make a decent living in this world.
Is it possible that the college tuition donations were worked into the salaries of those staffers?
Meaning, they had a "need" to send their children to college, thereby having twi send tuition monies to those colleges to be applied to the children of the staffers?
doubtful, because that kind of benefit in the real world is called "tuition reimbursement".
and, if it was a staff benefit, why was it all done on the d/l? I've never heard about donations to universities in all my years in twi. the only time I ever heard of any twi money going to an outside source, it was after 9/11 when some undisclosed amount went to the red cross.
whatever this is, I figure they think people would be unhappy to find out about it, otherwise why not disclose such things?
I'm never again giving money to an outfit that doesn't publish a financial statement for its members. if it can be done on the sly, it will be.
My experience while on Staff was that they didn't want to give a staffer anymore than they had to. I asked for $20 for gas money. It was brought to my attention that I did not have a car and why did I need gas. I said "You don't expect everyone to cart me around for free do you?" I was given the $20, but it sure didn't cover my need. I should have asked for more, but I was scared.
I'm sure there are lot of things that happened financially that we will never know. My question to the BOT is "Why isn't the ministry's budget made available to view? Other churches make their's available. Surely YOU want to do above and beyond any old idolatrous church."
I asked the same thing, Notta. I was asked what my 'motive of heart' was in asking that. I was told that they would provide it if someone genuinely wanted to know, but then was never provided a copy of the books, or even the tax information that others have been able to find on here.
TWI folks shouldn't have to ask where the money is going. They should be told every quarter - yearly at the least. They should be getting annual reports detailing salaries, donations and expenditures. But they sure as he11 shouldn't have to ask and then go through the Spanish Inquisition to determine if they're worthy of seeing the information. Watcha hidin', rosie??
this thread is really ....ing me off. I am 43 and finally getting a real education. I love college and sometimes wish I could have gone right out of high school like my friends did. My oldest brother put up with the judgements and criticisms to get his degree. But when I wanted to go to school to study engineering I was told I should go wow and Corps that I should serve God. So I obeyed. After all that there was this stigma in my mind that I could never go to college because it was too expensive. BS.
My brother now is going to have trouble putting his kid through college because he is paid staff. But do you think he will believe this stuff. He will make excuses for the Way and his kids will suffer while the kids who were born to the top leadership will have a free ride. These people can kiss my you know what.
My sister and her husband - lifers on TWI staff for years did not have the money either to put their boys through college.
One just graduated OSU Fischer School of Business Magna Cum Laude, the other CCAD (a Columbus art college).
They did it through loans, and working part time and full-time summers for money. Myself and my brother co-signed much of their loans.
In this society, a young person must get a degree or tech education, or spend a lifetime in a minimum wage job.
It can be done through loans and work. Sure, they will have debt to pay off, but they will always be able to provide well for themselves.
This chaps me though to see the big wig's kids go to college with your ABS.
I started wondering about that years ago when I noticed VP would not let his kids, Sarah or JP in the corps until they had their college education first.
Meanwhile, corps were made to feel like copouts if they wanted to go to school.
And the saddest thing of all, is that the privileged innie kids who do get the degree will never use it. They will be owned by TWI.
Sorry excathedra: University of NLife is not around any more. BOT scrapped it because it wasn't "present truth".....
Notta & Potato: The older members can vouch for this one. Years ago when Don & Howard went on BOT, vpw told them flat out "get control of the finances" Howard always talked about how, if someone wanted to, they could always take a look at the books and see what was going on with money. Maybe??? that's why lcm & friends managed to get them off BOT. To stop free access because they did not want EVERYBODY and their brother to see what was really happening. I know Howard had the task of telling the MOG that putting WC full time, even though that was supposed to have come from God, was bleeding monumental amounts of red ink. In this case they didn't shoot the messenger like Stalin did, they gave him Emeritus status to get him out of the way.
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Ham
"Move along, move along, nothing more to see here.."
OK potato, you can have your thread back..
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potato
I think you're right, GT. it looks like it is cumulative. in 2003 they're listed as a gift-in-kind donor as well.
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Belle
I wonder..... does anyone know the names of some of the folks on staff at HQ? Particularly ones who couldn't afford to send their kids to college? :unsure:
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railroader II
Okay guys & gals,
I'm going to really upset some. I talked to a friend who sits on the foundation board for a western college and I was informed that even though it may say cumulative, that applies to THAT year. If the information is in one or more reports, it is because that much was donated EACH YEAR!!!!!
So, it looks like someone's kids are having a good old time with our $$$. Belle, you or potato may be able to dig a bit deeper on this. I don't have the contacts I used to. I think they have been scared away from talking to me due to what I've been into because of them.....
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potato
well, that is a lot of money then.
I don't have contacts who will speak with me anymore, but I might have friends with contacts. I'll check it out.
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Belle
I may just give Rico himself a call, but he really doesn't seem to enjoy talking to me.
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WhiteDove
Here is a link for Lakeland College Annual Fund Donor Honor Roll if you scroll down to 1962 there is a entry for Donald Wierwille. No amount given but it was a honor roll of donors so I would think it was substantial. Wanda Don's wife was Wanda Stroshein looks like a typo on her name they were married in 1962. V.P.Wierwille attended at Lakeland and I believe also Don. He graduated high school in 1958 so that would be about the right date .
Looks like money was going to schools for a long time..... This would seem to fit with the line from the Passing of the Patriarch page 60 where VP says "I sure don't know why Donnie isn't blessed and thankful; we bought him his doctorate. I know he received his doctorate from KU here in Kansas, but it does shed some light on that statement.
Judy Prom (Weber)'62
Donald Schneider'62
Donald Wierwille (Strohschein)'62
Mary Andreas (Gutzmer)'63
Paul Boyle'63
lakeland
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Watered Garden
I distinctly remember LCM saying again and again and again: "If your children want to go to college, they should earn scholarships or work and pay their own way. DO NOT take out a college loan or any other kind of loan for them. If they can't afford to go to college, they should plan another way to earn a living." I believe he also mentioned the stupidity of a liberal arts education. Then he also said people should never get a college degree so they could earn a better living.
Then his own child goes to college and majors in music?????
How contradictory is that?
However, from 1973-1996, I would have considered it a most exceedingly great and a mighty and a completely unspeakable privilege to be allowed the honor of paying for his three childrens' education. As an innie, I pretty much bought into the whole picture. I expect if you could get the list and send this information off all the present innies, they would not be too upset.
Too smart now to be as stupid as I was then.
WG
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oldiesman
Perhaps. But if I were an innie, I'd want to know that some money is going to college tuitions. At that point I could decide.
Maybe what happened is this:
TWI staffers got / get salaries on a needs basis.
Is it possible that the college tuition donations were worked into the salaries of those staffers?
Meaning, they had a "need" to send their children to college, thereby having twi send tuition monies to those colleges to be applied to the children of the staffers?
That might explain all that and it be all legal.
I do question the double standard of it all however.
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oldiesman
I suppose a relevant question to ask would be:
is this way an improvement over what went down in the past?
if part of staff benefits / salaries is to get your childrens college tuitions paid for, is that a good thing?
perhaps.
as long as EVERYONE's staffs childrens are paid for, and not just a chosen few...
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Watered Garden
I don't think the average staffer could afford to send his/her kids to college. I seriously doubt, in light of the quotes above I wrote of, that a lowly staffer's child was considered worthy of attending college. However, the MOG's daughter went to Bowling Green State University, and apparently someone's kids went to UT.
Whatever, it is yet another double standard, as you said, Oldies. It's sad...I knew one couple whose firstborn was absolutely brilliant, yet they placed no value on higher education, and I expect after high school graduation a couple years back, he went WD and WC like a good little brainwashed kiddie.
Most unfortunate.
WG
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rascal
Gosh, it chaps my arse that we were needed on the front lines, while lcm`s and other big wig kiddoes are not required to pay their dues...aka classes, wow, corpes, assignments in order to be well pleasing to God.
We lived on a shoe string budget, giving everything above need for the movement of God`s word, not to mention our homes, our resources, our time in outreach and bringing in more income for them. All in order to see to it that their kids get a college education and can make a decent living in this world.
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potato
doubtful, because that kind of benefit in the real world is called "tuition reimbursement".
and, if it was a staff benefit, why was it all done on the d/l? I've never heard about donations to universities in all my years in twi. the only time I ever heard of any twi money going to an outside source, it was after 9/11 when some undisclosed amount went to the red cross.
whatever this is, I figure they think people would be unhappy to find out about it, otherwise why not disclose such things?
I'm never again giving money to an outfit that doesn't publish a financial statement for its members. if it can be done on the sly, it will be.
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Nottawayfer
My experience while on Staff was that they didn't want to give a staffer anymore than they had to. I asked for $20 for gas money. It was brought to my attention that I did not have a car and why did I need gas. I said "You don't expect everyone to cart me around for free do you?" I was given the $20, but it sure didn't cover my need. I should have asked for more, but I was scared.
I'm sure there are lot of things that happened financially that we will never know. My question to the BOT is "Why isn't the ministry's budget made available to view? Other churches make their's available. Surely YOU want to do above and beyond any old idolatrous church."
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Ham
That's why I call it blood money..
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Seth R.
I wonder if I applied to UT and said I was in TWI if I'd get a free ride?
Just a thought... ;)
Seth
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Belle
I asked the same thing, Notta. I was asked what my 'motive of heart' was in asking that. I was told that they would provide it if someone genuinely wanted to know, but then was never provided a copy of the books, or even the tax information that others have been able to find on here.
TWI folks shouldn't have to ask where the money is going. They should be told every quarter - yearly at the least. They should be getting annual reports detailing salaries, donations and expenditures. But they sure as he11 shouldn't have to ask and then go through the Spanish Inquisition to determine if they're worthy of seeing the information.
Watcha hidin', rosie??
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FreeAtLast
this thread is really ....ing me off. I am 43 and finally getting a real education. I love college and sometimes wish I could have gone right out of high school like my friends did. My oldest brother put up with the judgements and criticisms to get his degree. But when I wanted to go to school to study engineering I was told I should go wow and Corps that I should serve God. So I obeyed. After all that there was this stigma in my mind that I could never go to college because it was too expensive. BS.
My brother now is going to have trouble putting his kid through college because he is paid staff. But do you think he will believe this stuff. He will make excuses for the Way and his kids will suffer while the kids who were born to the top leadership will have a free ride. These people can kiss my you know what.
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Sunesis
My sister and her husband - lifers on TWI staff for years did not have the money either to put their boys through college.
One just graduated OSU Fischer School of Business Magna Cum Laude, the other CCAD (a Columbus art college).
They did it through loans, and working part time and full-time summers for money. Myself and my brother co-signed much of their loans.
In this society, a young person must get a degree or tech education, or spend a lifetime in a minimum wage job.
It can be done through loans and work. Sure, they will have debt to pay off, but they will always be able to provide well for themselves.
This chaps me though to see the big wig's kids go to college with your ABS.
I started wondering about that years ago when I noticed VP would not let his kids, Sarah or JP in the corps until they had their college education first.
Meanwhile, corps were made to feel like copouts if they wanted to go to school.
And the saddest thing of all, is that the privileged innie kids who do get the degree will never use it. They will be owned by TWI.
What mega-hypocrisy though.
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washingtonweather
yeah -- Sunesis -- you'rer not kidding.
I remember them scoffing at the idea of a loan for education (franklin smith even taught that schools and homes were okay in the class he plagerized.)
It held me back at first -- but then, we left yeahhhh!!!
school loans are the cheapest money out there. And getting a degree to get a better job --- revenge is living well they say?
This is just another classic case of a double standard and financial abuse, exploitation and discrimination by none other than TWI jerks.
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excathedra
there's always the university of life (barf)
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nandon
While i think college is GREAT. It's not true for all.
I make over 100,000 a year and i am in the office for 25 hours a week.
I don't think I'm in a small minority either.
MANY of my friendsd are right where I'm at.
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Nottawayfer
Nandon,
What do you do? Please tell.
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railroader II
Sorry excathedra: University of NLife is not around any more. BOT scrapped it because it wasn't "present truth".....
Notta & Potato: The older members can vouch for this one. Years ago when Don & Howard went on BOT, vpw told them flat out "get control of the finances" Howard always talked about how, if someone wanted to, they could always take a look at the books and see what was going on with money. Maybe??? that's why lcm & friends managed to get them off BOT. To stop free access because they did not want EVERYBODY and their brother to see what was really happening. I know Howard had the task of telling the MOG that putting WC full time, even though that was supposed to have come from God, was bleeding monumental amounts of red ink. In this case they didn't shoot the messenger like Stalin did, they gave him Emeritus status to get him out of the way.
Any other suggestions people........
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