In the nineties there was the teaching that wrong thoughts created grooves in your mind, and those grooves became conduits for devil spirits. Controling your thinking was a big deal.
Yeah, control your thinking, like good little automatons. Now, I stop, look and reread everything after lcm and rr & company force fed us the party line. I try never to take anything at face value. For all his faults, ole docvic did give us one good piece of advice, and I think Belle and some of the other older GSC members remember this "don't ever take my word for what you are taught. Go back and research it yourself and make it your own." That was when we had a Research department that actually did what it was supposed to. Not this canned stuff that you see us getting today. Some of the teachings that I've heard in the past few years have actually made some sense, in spite of the control freaks. No matter what gets said, it makes you think. I had a BC who " God forbid" did encourage us to think and use the different research material that we had.
"don't ever take my word for what you are taught. Go back and research it yourself and make it your own."
Yeah, Vic paid lip sevice to that but that's not how it worked...if you disagreed with Wierwille, your foot was grass. Some people stood up and told him he was wrong about certain things and they were booted and discredited in the strongest sense. The only thing you were allowed to "make your own" was his version of it...anything else and you had problems.
That was the pivotal point in accepting or not accepting what was being dealt out.
It allowed for one to put a lock on independent thought and throw away the key without even realizing the exit door seemed to have vanished.
Without session7 and its' invitation to mind control, the rest of the class would have been like just so many Sunday School lessons. Exciting at first and then fading with time as independent thought weighed the overall significance of one particular lesson over another.
Because the people who teach VP's stuff and people who follow it are still alive and every so often venture on to the evil internet and discover there is more to life than all those VP teachings; that's why.
I'm not sure what you mean when you say"This is definitely going to go down easily." so put that on the back burner.
I read an article today in the local newspaper about a gentleman who suffers PTSD from a combat related experience he had in Viet Nam. There are some people who would say" It was 40 years ago, get over it." I'm sure he would be quite relieved it it were only that easy.
In TWI we were conditioned (This is not the same thing as merely being taught) to close our minds to even considering anything that did not line up with TWI doctrine. They told us to examine and "research" any variant thought using a criteria that they(TWI) sanctioned.
Further, it was a widely held belief, due to teaching and conditioning, that to leave the safety of the organization was an open invitation for the Devil to declare open season on any who did so.
I know someone, who upon severing ties with TWI, lost two children in terrible accidents. Do you suppose they possibly felt that somehow these actions caused this travesty? I can't tell you because I can't read minds. I can tell you,however, that it was woven into the conditioning of "Waybrain" to make either a conscious or subconscious causitive connection.
They lost those kids because sometimes life just isn't fair not because they severed ties with an organization that was nothing more than a cult. The logic behind it is easy to understand but it's a bit like telling that Nam Vet " just get over it."
Now back to that original statement. What did you mean by "this is definitely going to go down easily."?
Bump, Maybe YOU have fully evaluated and dealt with the ramifications in your life from being involved with TWI, but not all of us have. I think you still have an arrogance problem, but that's just my observation. If you want to help then help, but your attitude leaves much to be desired.
I've been out for a little over two years, so I'm still working this stuff out in my head. I still have a lot of questions and a lot of things that I struggle with. If that's a problem for you, then perhaps you should skip my posts.
There are others who have been out of TWI less time than I have and they may benefit from my "thinking out loud". There are some who have been out a long time, but may benefit too. Just because YOU don't get anything out of someone's observation doesn't mean that NO ONE does.
Furthermore, if you don't know what TWI in the US was like in the 90's then you don't have a clue as to what we've been through.
vee pee was dead before I had even heard of TWI, but his teachings definitely impacted my life - and not so nicely.
That was when we had a Research department that actually did what it was supposed to. Not this canned stuff that you see us getting today.
That's debatable, my friend. Highly debatable.
Some of the teachings that I've heard in the past few years have actually made some sense, in spite of the control freaks. No matter what gets said, it makes you think. I had a BC who " God forbid" did encourage us to think and use the different research material that we had.
LOL! The teachings that make sense to me now are ones that are very similar to gnostic and mysticism. Take out the Bible verses and/or look at them in a different light and - bam! You've got gnostic or Kaballah doctrine or the spirituality teachings that TWI shuns.
Oakspear and I both can tell stories of presenting to TWI leadership our personal research and study that didn't line up with TWI teachings and the very negative response it generated. TWI, and vee pee, may have said that we should do our own studies, but they did not really mean it. They didn't want to hear anything that questioned or challenged what they were teaching. I know one of my studies went all the way to the Region level, if not higher - and it's still being taught in the WAP class.
I also know of quite a few other folks who presented questions or contradictory studies only to be shut down.
Thanks, Cool and WB. :) He's from Africa, but the tone of his posts give me pause to wonder if he and Allen have the same IP address.
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mstar1
so much for let everyone be 'quick to hear and slow to speak.'
Must be wrong,
They scratched that one out along time ago
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polar bear
"Remember it was curiosity that killed the cat." That's what my former twit leader used to tell me when I had honest questions.
Well I'm not a cat, and if no one had curiosity, nothing would ever get discovered or ever change.
It would be like Pleasantville-yuk. Sort of sounds like twi still is.
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Bramble
In the nineties there was the teaching that wrong thoughts created grooves in your mind, and those grooves became conduits for devil spirits. Controling your thinking was a big deal.
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copenhagen
bramble,
i guess lcm wanted to lead by example with this teaching...
copenhagen
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railroader II
Yeah, control your thinking, like good little automatons. Now, I stop, look and reread everything after lcm and rr & company force fed us the party line. I try never to take anything at face value. For all his faults, ole docvic did give us one good piece of advice, and I think Belle and some of the other older GSC members remember this "don't ever take my word for what you are taught. Go back and research it yourself and make it your own." That was when we had a Research department that actually did what it was supposed to. Not this canned stuff that you see us getting today. Some of the teachings that I've heard in the past few years have actually made some sense, in spite of the control freaks. No matter what gets said, it makes you think. I had a BC who " God forbid" did encourage us to think and use the different research material that we had.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Yeah, Vic paid lip sevice to that but that's not how it worked...if you disagreed with Wierwille, your foot was grass. Some people stood up and told him he was wrong about certain things and they were booted and discredited in the strongest sense. The only thing you were allowed to "make your own" was his version of it...anything else and you had problems.
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waysider
Session Seven
That was the pivotal point in accepting or not accepting what was being dealt out.
It allowed for one to put a lock on independent thought and throw away the key without even realizing the exit door seemed to have vanished.
Without session7 and its' invitation to mind control, the rest of the class would have been like just so many Sunday School lessons. Exciting at first and then fading with time as independent thought weighed the overall significance of one particular lesson over another.
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Bumpy
This is definitely going to go down easily...but VP's been dead for 20 years, already! Why are you still having this conversation??
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washingtonweather
Because the people who teach VP's stuff and people who follow it are still alive and every so often venture on to the evil internet and discover there is more to life than all those VP teachings; that's why.
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waysider
Bumpy
I'm not sure what you mean when you say"This is definitely going to go down easily." so put that on the back burner.
I read an article today in the local newspaper about a gentleman who suffers PTSD from a combat related experience he had in Viet Nam. There are some people who would say" It was 40 years ago, get over it." I'm sure he would be quite relieved it it were only that easy.
In TWI we were conditioned (This is not the same thing as merely being taught) to close our minds to even considering anything that did not line up with TWI doctrine. They told us to examine and "research" any variant thought using a criteria that they(TWI) sanctioned.
Further, it was a widely held belief, due to teaching and conditioning, that to leave the safety of the organization was an open invitation for the Devil to declare open season on any who did so.
I know someone, who upon severing ties with TWI, lost two children in terrible accidents. Do you suppose they possibly felt that somehow these actions caused this travesty? I can't tell you because I can't read minds. I can tell you,however, that it was woven into the conditioning of "Waybrain" to make either a conscious or subconscious causitive connection.
They lost those kids because sometimes life just isn't fair not because they severed ties with an organization that was nothing more than a cult. The logic behind it is easy to understand but it's a bit like telling that Nam Vet " just get over it."
Now back to that original statement. What did you mean by "this is definitely going to go down easily."?
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Belle
Bump, Maybe YOU have fully evaluated and dealt with the ramifications in your life from being involved with TWI, but not all of us have. I think you still have an arrogance problem, but that's just my observation. If you want to help then help, but your attitude leaves much to be desired.
I've been out for a little over two years, so I'm still working this stuff out in my head. I still have a lot of questions and a lot of things that I struggle with. If that's a problem for you, then perhaps you should skip my posts.
There are others who have been out of TWI less time than I have and they may benefit from my "thinking out loud". There are some who have been out a long time, but may benefit too. Just because YOU don't get anything out of someone's observation doesn't mean that NO ONE does.
Furthermore, if you don't know what TWI in the US was like in the 90's then you don't have a clue as to what we've been through.
vee pee was dead before I had even heard of TWI, but his teachings definitely impacted my life - and not so nicely.
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coolchef
again Belle
very nicely said
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waterbuffalo
I agree. Did Bumpy say he grew up in Scotland?
He's clearly not American.
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Belle
That's debatable, my friend. Highly debatable.
LOL! The teachings that make sense to me now are ones that are very similar to gnostic and mysticism. Take out the Bible verses and/or look at them in a different light and - bam! You've got gnostic or Kaballah doctrine or the spirituality teachings that TWI shuns.
Oakspear and I both can tell stories of presenting to TWI leadership our personal research and study that didn't line up with TWI teachings and the very negative response it generated. TWI, and vee pee, may have said that we should do our own studies, but they did not really mean it. They didn't want to hear anything that questioned or challenged what they were teaching. I know one of my studies went all the way to the Region level, if not higher - and it's still being taught in the WAP class.
I also know of quite a few other folks who presented questions or contradictory studies only to be shut down.
Thanks, Cool and WB. :) He's from Africa, but the tone of his posts give me pause to wonder if he and Allen have the same IP address.
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