That is the main reason I don't frequent the Way forum anymore. In 'tacks we go after each other but it's the same going after you do in the world also and I can handle it. I don't spend time in doctrine because I don't have the time at the moment to put into the research so I can have an informed opinion. This forum Open use to be one of fun and such but you have to walk carefully even here. And there are those that just like to be difficult but they're pretty well marked as such.
I think you are precious and have contributed something long needed here. I hope you find places you enjoy and don't even bother reading the others and you'll enjoy this place a whole lot better.
I don't like to see people hurt or to be hurt, or to do the hurting...so this is something I needed to say! I hope You understand this as a whole...that I will never understand why it is necessary to attack individuals unless your personally threatened in a manner that absolutely requires this response. This is a forum not a battle zone. The Greatest people I have ever known come here and I consider myself fortunate to be among you all.
Aren't we the Christians here, fortunate indeed that God's thoughts and ways are higher than our thoughts and ways. and that His Love is past finding out.
The answer to that question is no, not everyone here is Christian and then there are many different doctrines among those that claim or are Christian. This is not a like minded thinking tank and some have to learn to stand their ground and speak their mind. Thick skin helps.
And what Ducky pointed out was one of the wildest things for me to accept, that a forum made up of an ex-Christian group had folks that were or are not Christians but I finally got that (I think). :unsure:
Sometimes you just have to say what you have to say, and I'm glad you did.
I'm not sure if you are referring to a specific post but if it was something in one of mine, I don't mind being "set straight".
There is a lot of diversity of opinion and a wide range of experiences here at GSC. Even some who experienced the exact same event or situation came away with profound differences in how they were affected.
I enjoy your posts and hope you continue to bring your viewpoint to share in the mix.
I,too, had many great times during my involvement with TWI but,to be honest, I think many of them were in spite of TWI and not because of it. After I became involved in The Way, I got my parents involved also. I apologized to my mother once for getting her involved and do you know what she said? She said, "Why would you want to apologize for introducing us to some of the best friends we've ever had?! And isn't that the whole thing in a nut shell? TWI as I remember it was successful at that point in time because so many great people were drawn to it not because it held any special franchise on "The Truth".
I don't know if any of that made sense but ,like you said, "I had to say this."
Sorry for coming back so much but I didn't want to sound like I don't have compassion towards those hurt by twi, I could write my own chapter in that personal regard. But I think Waysider hit on something important. The people that we loved that made up that ministry are still that, people first, and we don't have to apologize for the love we had or still have for them to anyone.
I still subscribe to the idea that no matter how screwed up twi became (and I concede that in its later days it was at least as religious as the church I was escaping from) that many of the things I learned in twi were the truth and still benefit my life today. It seems to me that to arbitrarily reject everything we learned from twi because of the misdeeds of some is to throw out the baby with the bath water. Admittedly the bath water is dirty, and needs to be discarded, but much that I learned is of value, and there are many people that I met in twi that are still some of my closest friends. I also hope that Rainbow girl was not hurt by any of my posts, that was not my intention.
Thank you "Bear", Kathy, Ductape, Waysider, dmiller, and Jeaniam,
For being such great and dear friends, teachers and examples. None of you have or would ever hurt me or anyone else. I read a lot in all areas here in GSC. Areas that I might do well to avoid or post in as you suggest kathy and "Ducky" I still am glad I said what I said though! Thanks for coming to talk with me and for sharing your hearts.
My own involvement in GSC ebbs and flows with my schedule, which is probably obvious. Life does intrude, doesn't it? However, when I first came to the site, I suppose I spent about 5 months reading everything in the archives, well, to be honest, just the majority of the archives, before I even registered and began posting.
What I have discovered is that GS is, like any other social structure, a diverse representation of beliefs, personalities, motivations and, to be honest, agendas. There are people here, like you, with what are the most pure intentions of anyone I've ever met. There are people, like ChattyKathy, with a huge capacity for curiosity and interest in working through a logical puzzle. There are people here whom are cast more in the mold of "defender of the faith" on any number of pet subjects. And, the list of descriptions could go on without end.
So, here we are, all meshed together...in different places in our thinking, different places in our lives with different ideas as to where we'd like to end up...and, yet, this one broad commonality stripes us all--an involvement with an organization that affected us in a way profound enough that we searched out and discovered this community. In context of this community we are member of now, even our opinions and interpretations of that very thing which brought us together are very different.
Jean, for example, has posted concerning the things she has felt to be positive about that time in her life and the things she sees still as having merit and value. While her opinion may lay in contrast with another poster here at GSC, it is perfectly valid and deserves a hearing--if only because she is a member of this community, and has a voice here. (Jean, you must understand I'm only using this as a larger example, and am personally very glad you've come on to post).
And, I think that is finally where I'm headed with this post. It's about voice.
For many people here, GSC has become a place where their voices are heard. After spending so much time having your voice silenced, and I speak not only of twi, it is a process to rediscover who you are, and who you were meant to be. Sometimes, therefore, that growing process is painful. And people shout, they whisper, the whine, they complain, they rail, they lecture (I'm probably most guilty of the last), they spit, the condemn, they praise...and sometimes, but rarely, someone like you comes along...and, then, there is singing. Joyous and clear singing.
To speak, in any context, to me, is an act of bravery. Sometimes, it's an act of defiance...sometimes an act of desperation...but, to me, it always takes courage. Especially when you feel that by speaking you will face the condemnation of those around you. And, even here, and frankly I don't care how much fire this brings down upon my head, there are people who want to possess the only voice--the last word, the final say, or le mot juste.
Language, as we both know as parents of very unique children, is as much a limitation as it is a door-opener. But, inadequate as it may be, it is all we have. I often find myself irritated when I tell my fella how much I love him. Love seems so plain and overused a word and wholly unable to describe the depth of feeling I carry for him. But, it is the only word I have, so, I use it. In writing this, I, too, find that the words cannot convey what a quick squeeze on your shoulder from me, your friend, would. But, again, it's what I have.
This language is all any of us have...and it is sad, I think, when we use it to pummel and belittle instead of using it to illustrate that which is best in all of us.
So, here we are, rubbing shoulders, all of us at the GSC cocktail party. And our social interactions shift and change as we move through the threads and the forums. There's bound to be conflict, it is, in fact, inevitable...and honestly, it's to be celebrated. Through conflict, we come to know ourselves better, and understand those around us with new eyes. However, conflict need not be hurtful in nature...so, for those that speak with an intention to wound, well...as a Christian might say, and the principle in spirit is something which which I agree, "By their fruit, you shall know them."
All I can really say, and have taken much too long to say it...for all our differences, Rainbow'sGirl, I believe we are both women who stand by what we say--and that makes you, in my eyes, a treasure.
Knowing you, even here, improves my life. Your voice cuts through much of the ambient noise.
There are people, like ChattyKathy, with a huge capacity for curiosity and interest in working through a logical puzzle
...and sometimes, but rarely, someone like you comes along...and, then, there is singing. Joyous and clear singing.
Knowing you, even here, improves my life. Your voice cuts through much of the ambient noise.
I am humbled by such a description about me QuietThinker. Oh my.
And the remaining snips of your post are simply beautiful about our Rainbow'sGirl and my face smiled wide while reading your thoughts of her. She is indeed rare and I hope she remains amongst us.
Knowing you, even here, improves my life. Your voice cuts through much of the ambient noise.
Rainbow- I think that QT has said, in her usual verbose manner, what I might have said. I often keep things a bit too short and direct thus losing content and understanding. So thank you QT and Rainbow for taking the effort to "speak" so succinctly.
I was once "run off" by the big bad "newbie bashers" that sometimes visit this site. But I'll not be run off again. Mostly thanks to you Rainbow and all of the wonderfully hearted people that are becoming more loquacious here at GS. Many of whom have responded on this thread.
Thank you for sharing your heart here...all of you. :) It brings my heart great joy.
Thank you for your love and for standing by me as a true friend always does! You too Free and all you who with great heart came to share with me your wisdom! helping me through the brambles. Illuminating me!
My biggest hope in writing this was to bring to the attention of everyone here that we should try harder to know and understand one another. What we assume sometimes here online about each other is so far from the truth or totally disregarded in our actions. From what I have read most of us are seeking the truth in one aspect or another; but if we slaughter (figuratively) one another over our beliefs...what will we have become??? We as individuals are not just the total sum of our beliefs systems....We are so much more than that. IMO if we focus on the hearts of the members here, well, then we would learn more and hence understand more... Oh well that is what I want and I realize what you have said as usual is so very true...along with all of you that have come to talk with me. We all have different focuses and agendas, ways and means. I guess I look and I see some are in so much pain and yet out of their pain they inflict pain back. Pain is only one of many examples of the reasons I am trying to address here..anger, fear, etc.; I only mean to say to get beyond what hurts us or traps us , we sometimes need to risk other options or reactions...I know that this is somewhat a normal reaction to act in kind as to how you have been treated...it is just so frustrating to be the brunt of it. I know there is no balance here on earth and no perfection...i am again dreaming out loud! I made an attempt to ask the very few here to make an effort to be more aware of their effect and to have better regard for the hearts they affect. Just another personal choice option; truly this is not an accusation...and it maybe my observations are off and I have mistaken some of this.
Rainbow- I think that QT has said, in her usual verbose manner, what I might have said. I often keep things a bit too short and direct thus losing content and understanding. So thank you QT and Rainbow for taking the effort to "speak" so succinctly.
I was once "run off" by the big bad "newbie bashers" that sometimes visit this site. But I'll not be run off again. Mostly thanks to you Rainbow and all of the wonderfully hearted people that are becoming more loquacious here at GS. Many of whom have responded on this thread.
Thank you for sharing your heart here...all of you. :) It brings my heart great joy.
Love ya,
Teresa
Thanks Eyes,
I Love you too! I hope your birthday was beyond all you expected! Your a treasured friend along with all the friends that have shared here!
Everything that all of you have added is very well put...I appreciate it so much. You all melt my heart and your word heal me up You are all so balanced and wise...You read hearts like books and much more practise what you know...more than anything I am glad you see my heart and can read it. To me it is far more important to 1st and then continue to predominately see a heart more than a belief or even intellect!
I will not be leaving...I am a mother of a unique child. My skin is tough enough and my heart and my patience have been tried enough to be here... as long as people like all of you my dear dear friends are here.
And unfortunately if I have alienated anyone...know it was not my intent at all...but I can live with it if need be......... I see the face of alienation rear up quite frequently...all too frequently!
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polar bear
I agree RG. There should be no criticism here. We should all respect each others opinions.
What's the point of arguing and bickering when that's the kind of stuff we wanted to get away from.
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ChattyKathy
RG,
That is the main reason I don't frequent the Way forum anymore. In 'tacks we go after each other but it's the same going after you do in the world also and I can handle it. I don't spend time in doctrine because I don't have the time at the moment to put into the research so I can have an informed opinion. This forum Open use to be one of fun and such but you have to walk carefully even here. And there are those that just like to be difficult but they're pretty well marked as such.
I think you are precious and have contributed something long needed here. I hope you find places you enjoy and don't even bother reading the others and you'll enjoy this place a whole lot better.
Kathy
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Ductape
The answer to that question is no, not everyone here is Christian and then there are many different doctrines among those that claim or are Christian. This is not a like minded thinking tank and some have to learn to stand their ground and speak their mind. Thick skin helps.
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ChattyKathy
And what Ducky pointed out was one of the wildest things for me to accept, that a forum made up of an ex-Christian group had folks that were or are not Christians but I finally got that (I think). :unsure:
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waysider
Sometimes you just have to say what you have to say, and I'm glad you did.
I'm not sure if you are referring to a specific post but if it was something in one of mine, I don't mind being "set straight".
There is a lot of diversity of opinion and a wide range of experiences here at GSC. Even some who experienced the exact same event or situation came away with profound differences in how they were affected.
I enjoy your posts and hope you continue to bring your viewpoint to share in the mix.
I,too, had many great times during my involvement with TWI but,to be honest, I think many of them were in spite of TWI and not because of it. After I became involved in The Way, I got my parents involved also. I apologized to my mother once for getting her involved and do you know what she said? She said, "Why would you want to apologize for introducing us to some of the best friends we've ever had?! And isn't that the whole thing in a nut shell? TWI as I remember it was successful at that point in time because so many great people were drawn to it not because it held any special franchise on "The Truth".
I don't know if any of that made sense but ,like you said, "I had to say this."
Peace,
Waysider.
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ChattyKathy
Sorry for coming back so much but I didn't want to sound like I don't have compassion towards those hurt by twi, I could write my own chapter in that personal regard. But I think Waysider hit on something important. The people that we loved that made up that ministry are still that, people first, and we don't have to apologize for the love we had or still have for them to anyone.
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Ductape
I do think some like to jump to quickly on new people that show up here and still hold fond memories of TWI. Give them some time geezzzzzzz.
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dmiller
Amen!!!
(after all -- we were ALL newbies once, with our own sets of issues).
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ChattyKathy
And many a soul has been run off due it also.
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Jeaniam
I still subscribe to the idea that no matter how screwed up twi became (and I concede that in its later days it was at least as religious as the church I was escaping from) that many of the things I learned in twi were the truth and still benefit my life today. It seems to me that to arbitrarily reject everything we learned from twi because of the misdeeds of some is to throw out the baby with the bath water. Admittedly the bath water is dirty, and needs to be discarded, but much that I learned is of value, and there are many people that I met in twi that are still some of my closest friends. I also hope that Rainbow girl was not hurt by any of my posts, that was not my intention.
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RainbowsGirl
Thank you "Bear", Kathy, Ductape, Waysider, dmiller, and Jeaniam,
For being such great and dear friends, teachers and examples. None of you have or would ever hurt me or anyone else. I read a lot in all areas here in GSC. Areas that I might do well to avoid or post in as you suggest kathy and "Ducky" I still am glad I said what I said though! Thanks for coming to talk with me and for sharing your hearts.
Love You All, RG
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ChattyKathy
My communications with you have only added to me dear.
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RainbowsGirl
Thank You Kathy!
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ChattyKathy
:)
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FreeAtLast
RG, your wisdom is refreshing girl. Glad you spoke your mind.
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QuietThinker
Dear Rainbow'sGirl (and everyone else, of course)
My own involvement in GSC ebbs and flows with my schedule, which is probably obvious. Life does intrude, doesn't it? However, when I first came to the site, I suppose I spent about 5 months reading everything in the archives, well, to be honest, just the majority of the archives, before I even registered and began posting.
What I have discovered is that GS is, like any other social structure, a diverse representation of beliefs, personalities, motivations and, to be honest, agendas. There are people here, like you, with what are the most pure intentions of anyone I've ever met. There are people, like ChattyKathy, with a huge capacity for curiosity and interest in working through a logical puzzle. There are people here whom are cast more in the mold of "defender of the faith" on any number of pet subjects. And, the list of descriptions could go on without end.
So, here we are, all meshed together...in different places in our thinking, different places in our lives with different ideas as to where we'd like to end up...and, yet, this one broad commonality stripes us all--an involvement with an organization that affected us in a way profound enough that we searched out and discovered this community. In context of this community we are member of now, even our opinions and interpretations of that very thing which brought us together are very different.
Jean, for example, has posted concerning the things she has felt to be positive about that time in her life and the things she sees still as having merit and value. While her opinion may lay in contrast with another poster here at GSC, it is perfectly valid and deserves a hearing--if only because she is a member of this community, and has a voice here. (Jean, you must understand I'm only using this as a larger example, and am personally very glad you've come on to post).
And, I think that is finally where I'm headed with this post. It's about voice.
For many people here, GSC has become a place where their voices are heard. After spending so much time having your voice silenced, and I speak not only of twi, it is a process to rediscover who you are, and who you were meant to be. Sometimes, therefore, that growing process is painful. And people shout, they whisper, the whine, they complain, they rail, they lecture (I'm probably most guilty of the last), they spit, the condemn, they praise...and sometimes, but rarely, someone like you comes along...and, then, there is singing. Joyous and clear singing.
To speak, in any context, to me, is an act of bravery. Sometimes, it's an act of defiance...sometimes an act of desperation...but, to me, it always takes courage. Especially when you feel that by speaking you will face the condemnation of those around you. And, even here, and frankly I don't care how much fire this brings down upon my head, there are people who want to possess the only voice--the last word, the final say, or le mot juste.
Language, as we both know as parents of very unique children, is as much a limitation as it is a door-opener. But, inadequate as it may be, it is all we have. I often find myself irritated when I tell my fella how much I love him. Love seems so plain and overused a word and wholly unable to describe the depth of feeling I carry for him. But, it is the only word I have, so, I use it. In writing this, I, too, find that the words cannot convey what a quick squeeze on your shoulder from me, your friend, would. But, again, it's what I have.
This language is all any of us have...and it is sad, I think, when we use it to pummel and belittle instead of using it to illustrate that which is best in all of us.
So, here we are, rubbing shoulders, all of us at the GSC cocktail party. And our social interactions shift and change as we move through the threads and the forums. There's bound to be conflict, it is, in fact, inevitable...and honestly, it's to be celebrated. Through conflict, we come to know ourselves better, and understand those around us with new eyes. However, conflict need not be hurtful in nature...so, for those that speak with an intention to wound, well...as a Christian might say, and the principle in spirit is something which which I agree, "By their fruit, you shall know them."
All I can really say, and have taken much too long to say it...for all our differences, Rainbow'sGirl, I believe we are both women who stand by what we say--and that makes you, in my eyes, a treasure.
Knowing you, even here, improves my life. Your voice cuts through much of the ambient noise.
Yours even when busy with school,
~QT
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ChattyKathy
I am humbled by such a description about me QuietThinker. Oh my.
And the remaining snips of your post are simply beautiful about our Rainbow'sGirl and my face smiled wide while reading your thoughts of her. She is indeed rare and I hope she remains amongst us.
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Eyesopen
Rainbow- I think that QT has said, in her usual verbose manner, what I might have said. I often keep things a bit too short and direct thus losing content and understanding. So thank you QT and Rainbow for taking the effort to "speak" so succinctly.
I was once "run off" by the big bad "newbie bashers" that sometimes visit this site. But I'll not be run off again. Mostly thanks to you Rainbow and all of the wonderfully hearted people that are becoming more loquacious here at GS. Many of whom have responded on this thread.
Thank you for sharing your heart here...all of you. :) It brings my heart great joy.
Love ya,
Teresa
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RainbowsGirl
Dear QT,
Thank you for your love and for standing by me as a true friend always does! You too Free and all you who with great heart came to share with me your wisdom! helping me through the brambles. Illuminating me!
My biggest hope in writing this was to bring to the attention of everyone here that we should try harder to know and understand one another. What we assume sometimes here online about each other is so far from the truth or totally disregarded in our actions. From what I have read most of us are seeking the truth in one aspect or another; but if we slaughter (figuratively) one another over our beliefs...what will we have become??? We as individuals are not just the total sum of our beliefs systems....We are so much more than that. IMO if we focus on the hearts of the members here, well, then we would learn more and hence understand more... Oh well that is what I want and I realize what you have said as usual is so very true...along with all of you that have come to talk with me. We all have different focuses and agendas, ways and means. I guess I look and I see some are in so much pain and yet out of their pain they inflict pain back. Pain is only one of many examples of the reasons I am trying to address here..anger, fear, etc.; I only mean to say to get beyond what hurts us or traps us , we sometimes need to risk other options or reactions...I know that this is somewhat a normal reaction to act in kind as to how you have been treated...it is just so frustrating to be the brunt of it. I know there is no balance here on earth and no perfection...i am again dreaming out loud! I made an attempt to ask the very few here to make an effort to be more aware of their effect and to have better regard for the hearts they affect. Just another personal choice option; truly this is not an accusation...and it maybe my observations are off and I have mistaken some of this.
Well ((((All))))),and Love to All, RG
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RainbowsGirl
Thanks Eyes,
I Love you too! I hope your birthday was beyond all you expected! Your a treasured friend along with all the friends that have shared here!
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excathedra
Carl Jung
hugs
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RainbowsGirl
Everything that all of you have added is very well put...I appreciate it so much. You all melt my heart and your word heal me up You are all so balanced and wise...You read hearts like books and much more practise what you know...more than anything I am glad you see my heart and can read it. To me it is far more important to 1st and then continue to predominately see a heart more than a belief or even intellect!
I will not be leaving...I am a mother of a unique child. My skin is tough enough and my heart and my patience have been tried enough to be here... as long as people like all of you my dear dear friends are here.
And unfortunately if I have alienated anyone...know it was not my intent at all...but I can live with it if need be......... I see the face of alienation rear up quite frequently...all too frequently!
Love to All, RG
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RainbowsGirl
Excathedra,
You are so right-on, about that Thank You!...I Love You so much! ((((((((((((((((((((Exie)))))))))))))))))
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excathedra
oh thank you so much
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