I was a stereo-typical Southern Baptist growing up. I was there every time the door was opened - choir, youth group, hand bells, Bible school, training union, etc.... you name it. But, it was all voluntary and fun.
I did some pretty bizarre things while I was a TWIt, but since then I've pretty much avoided getting heavily involved with any kind of organized anything. I do attend a Methodist church occasionally and I do so enjoy it, but I also frequent Buddhist meditations, a Religious Science church and the occasional pagan, psychic or wicca meeting.
Having known God before TWI, (although not always on speaking terms with my Heavenly Father, and that had all to do with how certain ministers outside of TWI portrayed Him and nothing to do with who Heavenly Father actually is) it wasn't so much a matter of finding God after I left TWI as to listening to Him.
This isn't to say that it didn't take many years before I found the place where I feel loved, accepted and can continue to grow spiritually on a daily basis, because it did -twelve years to be exact.
Having had a solid Christian upbringing; with Church, Sunday School, and church sponsered activies being a weekly routine; meant that TWI was not my first introduction to Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. Even though I still disagree with some of the ideas presented by various ministers pre-TWI, the fact I had a foundational understanding of spritual matters before TWI meant that I was not completely spiritually adrift when I left.
I like to think that I learned my lesson. I'm probably a bit too skeptical these days, and have ticked of a speaker or two for asking pointed questions about their "special knowledge".
While I still read and listen to others' opinions, I no longer am "hungry for God" or looking for answers.
Re:"I sat naked in a salt circle in a wiccan ritual."
Now there's a religion I could have gotten into in my youth. But no orgies, eh? Bummer. Like Belle, I was raised strict Southern Baptist but now? Who was it that said fool me once, "shame on you" but fool me twice, "shame on me"??? Imagine.. are you the same Imagine from WayDale days? If so, I still have your pic on my hard drive :).
Imagine, I hear you. I attended an exway group and they did all the same things. I thought those things were unnecessary and strange in order to have a relationship with the Lord but participated anyway because why not? Thought I need a group to be a part of (was still thinking way-like).
Sound familiar? Said they were different but weren't.
Only thing different about them was they did these silly things searching for the anointing and to make themselves feel spiritual and to, in my opinion, disarm people.
It's funny because I was thinking about this morning how my thinking digressed from "We (the leader of the group and I) have the same training, I'm not looking for a spiritual leader and if I were I'd have no desire for an ex way one" to "I now consider you my whatever because I need to get in a submitted relationship to be in alignment with God." succumbed to subtle innuendoes and prodding to get there.
They were listening when I told them how devilish it was to sit around and talk about and analyze people coming to your fellowship (common corps practice in the ministry). Since they said nothing but nodded their heads I assumed they agreed and were in recovery along side with me.
Not. It just kept them from ever asking me to participate (because they knew I wouldn't) in their little secret "after meetings at Golden Corral." This practice was in place even to the extent that they would discuss people who came that morning and name devils they thought they spotted in them. How sick.
Thankfully, three of the exwayindividuals who participated in those meetings left the group about the same time several others did and told what they did there. Shame on you! what a group of exway hypocrites!
These are the same people who used to do meeings with JAL and had over a hundred exway coming at one time. There were about 50 coming when I first started and they dwindled down to maybe 20 including children then less and finally closed shop. What a disgrace. To this day these people call themselves pastors. How sad. to my knowledge a very small handful of people even keep in touch with them anymore. Wonder why?
Thanks for bringing this up. It feels good getting it off my chest after all these years. My intention is not to grill anyone just to put it out there so people will know some exway have jumped on that bandwagon that imagine spoke about. They may jump around, lift holy hands, hoot ‘n holler, but in practice they're just the same as they ever were.
I needed stability. I lost my father when I was fourteen, lost my mother three years later, and my mom had isolated us from some of the other relatives. My brother was as much a basket case as I was, but he was in a little more stable situation.
I really needed stability that a group could offer.. twi just happened to be the wrong place to go.
The bait was pretty enticing.. promises of success, abundance.. love..
Yes. My "extended family" now, is a rather casual, professional relationship with various professors, other professional people.
Churches, groups that offer stability, "THE answers", and are rather adamant that they are indeed "right".. I just can't go there.. I think the stability of the beliefs is an illusion..
pretty much think that the connection and stability these groups claim to offer is not real.
Churches, groups that offer stability, "THE answers", and are rather adamant that they are indeed "right".. I just can't go there.. I think the stability of the beliefs are an illusion..
pretty much think that the connection and stability these groups claim to offer is not real.
I'm inclined to agree with you. Nicely put. "The stability of the beliefs are an illusion."
Well.. there is a warped form of stability perhaps. But it is NOT unconditional love. It is love, and stability based not on who you are, but what you believe, and what you DO.
There are some pretty bold claims of having "agape" kind of love, but in the end, if you disagree, if you don't perform, you're "outta there".
It's false advertising.. the "love bombing" as some call it.. "see? we are the same as FAMILY".
A lot of claims have been made for the religion, but personally, I've NEVER seen any love outside of a real "earthly" family that can be considered truly unconditional.
but they presented themselves as the Family of God so we would...help me out here...feel bound to them??
I'm exploring the relationship between the concept of reflection and illusion...
could it have been that the illusion they presented somehow dovetailed as the reflection of the love, hope, purpose, stability that we hadn't articulated but always wanted??????
hmmm. Well.. perhaps some presented themselves as the family of God because they seek the same stability. Maybe some do so to simply gain control or rulership over others. I think most people can realistically compromise in a limited manner, not unconditionally. I think unconditional love is not a realistic expectation from anyone or anything.
I think it is more like a business partnership or agreement. The thing with der vey.. the "partnership" quickly became pretty one sided. I labored, and the real "return" from the root became less and less.. more demands and less performance for their part.
I think loy's rants about how we OWED them support, was a demand for unconditional love. Something he himself was not willing to return.
Clapped away devil spirits during a public declaration
And when the conference was ending,
I received a "double portion of blessing" for picking up all the ripped up papers that the audience had written their sins on and cast them to the floor
My challenge...
Can you top this?
While you are probably thinking about recommending a good counselor for me right now, let me tell you about my fortune cookie I just opened...
You have an ability, to sense and know higher truth.
(That's deep :))
Imagine, I think you've hit on something here. All of this is BIG with Evangelicals now. Are they finding a need in people and filling it or do they get people into all of this to disarm them?
Christians, they stress, must be in a submitted relationship to be taken seriously. In other words someone must be above you or between you and the Lord. And to be submitted you must go to them for advice. Sound familiar?
What was it Martin Luther stressed? The Christian per the scriptures can go directly to God and does not need the Catholic Church to do it for them.
Hum, direct relationship with, to, between you and God, Jesus.
Is this what The Way took away from us while we were with them?
They told us we had a NEED to have someone between us and God, didn't they?
Well, that's what Evangelicals do too. Lots of the same stuff in their meetings....
"ham's theory of light, and the repulsion of the same kind of forces"
For what it's worth..
I think we are beings of light, and were once one entity.. now we're fragmented. We long for the "belonginess" we had, but we also desperately need our individuality. I think existence here is a paradox of sorts.. we need the oneness, yet we also require the individuality to exist in this particular life. So there is a repulsion of sorts.. and the repulsion is slightly greater than the attraction.
I think the connection people desperately want, they can't truly have.. not in this life.
*so ham goes, wearing his protective tin beanie, muttering to himself as he goes..*
Well, my tin hat is not inferior to anybody elses here..
"ham's theory of light, and the repulsion of the same kind of forces"
For what it's worth..
I think we are beings of light, and were once one entity.. now we're fragmented. We long for the "belonginess" we had, but we also desperately need our individuality. I think existence here is a paradox of sorts.. we need the oneness, yet we also require the individuality to exist in this particular life. So there is a repulsion of sorts.. and the repulsion is slightly greater than the attraction.
I think the connection people desperately want, they can't truly have.. not in this life.
*so ham goes, wearing his protective tin beanie, muttering to himself as he goes..*
Well, my tin hat is not inferior to anybody elses here..
What religion is that? Is this one you just made up?????
Well.. I kind of think of it as a model. It is a strange mixture of some eastern philosphy, mathmatics and some Budhism, plus a few other philosophies. At the moment, the model is about the best fit to the world as I see it.
So many different opinions, maybe that's why I don't exactly fit in at any one place..
I can usually can find at least one point where I would agree with anybody..
Well.. I kind of think of it as a model. It is a strange mixture of some eastern philosphy, mathmatics and some Budhism, plus a few other philosophies. At the moment, the model is about the best fit to the world as I see it.
So many different opinions, maybe that's why I don't exactly fit in at any one place..
I can usually can find at least one point where I would agree with anybody..
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Belle
I'm afraid you win, Imagine. :unsure:
I was a stereo-typical Southern Baptist growing up. I was there every time the door was opened - choir, youth group, hand bells, Bible school, training union, etc.... you name it. But, it was all voluntary and fun.
I did some pretty bizarre things while I was a TWIt, but since then I've pretty much avoided getting heavily involved with any kind of organized anything. I do attend a Methodist church occasionally and I do so enjoy it, but I also frequent Buddhist meditations, a Religious Science church and the occasional pagan, psychic or wicca meeting.
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templelady
Having known God before TWI, (although not always on speaking terms with my Heavenly Father, and that had all to do with how certain ministers outside of TWI portrayed Him and nothing to do with who Heavenly Father actually is) it wasn't so much a matter of finding God after I left TWI as to listening to Him.
This isn't to say that it didn't take many years before I found the place where I feel loved, accepted and can continue to grow spiritually on a daily basis, because it did -twelve years to be exact.
Having had a solid Christian upbringing; with Church, Sunday School, and church sponsered activies being a weekly routine; meant that TWI was not my first introduction to Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. Even though I still disagree with some of the ideas presented by various ministers pre-TWI, the fact I had a foundational understanding of spritual matters before TWI meant that I was not completely spiritually adrift when I left.
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act2
imagine,
you have me beat all to hades and back!!!
I had a Christian upbringing so the need to do certain things to find God just isn't in me.
Hope you hang around with us.
I guess the wildest thing I have done is join Greasespot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!heehee.
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Oakspear
I like to think that I learned my lesson. I'm probably a bit too skeptical these days, and have ticked of a speaker or two for asking pointed questions about their "special knowledge".
While I still read and listen to others' opinions, I no longer am "hungry for God" or looking for answers.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Why didn't I think of that?..."Clap on, Clap off"...makes perfect sense to me.
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VeganXTC
I don't know if you would call it strange, but I did a lot of searching after I left TWI.
I raised holy hands in a fundamentalist faith healing group.
I sat naked in a salt circle in a wiccan ritual.
I was audited by scientologists.
But here is where I have you beat, Imagine. I went back to TWI! Thankfully, I didn't stay long.
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Sudo
Vegan,
Re:"I sat naked in a salt circle in a wiccan ritual."
Now there's a religion I could have gotten into in my youth. But no orgies, eh? Bummer. Like Belle, I was raised strict Southern Baptist but now? Who was it that said fool me once, "shame on you" but fool me twice, "shame on me"??? Imagine.. are you the same Imagine from WayDale days? If so, I still have your pic on my hard drive :).
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Oakspear
I regularly attend Wiccan rituals now, but most of them are attended by people that shouldn't be naked, including me...
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WOG
Imagine, I hear you. I attended an exway group and they did all the same things. I thought those things were unnecessary and strange in order to have a relationship with the Lord but participated anyway because why not? Thought I need a group to be a part of (was still thinking way-like).
Sound familiar? Said they were different but weren't.
Only thing different about them was they did these silly things searching for the anointing and to make themselves feel spiritual and to, in my opinion, disarm people.
It's funny because I was thinking about this morning how my thinking digressed from "We (the leader of the group and I) have the same training, I'm not looking for a spiritual leader and if I were I'd have no desire for an ex way one" to "I now consider you my whatever because I need to get in a submitted relationship to be in alignment with God." succumbed to subtle innuendoes and prodding to get there.
They were listening when I told them how devilish it was to sit around and talk about and analyze people coming to your fellowship (common corps practice in the ministry). Since they said nothing but nodded their heads I assumed they agreed and were in recovery along side with me.
Not. It just kept them from ever asking me to participate (because they knew I wouldn't) in their little secret "after meetings at Golden Corral." This practice was in place even to the extent that they would discuss people who came that morning and name devils they thought they spotted in them. How sick.
Thankfully, three of the exwayindividuals who participated in those meetings left the group about the same time several others did and told what they did there. Shame on you! what a group of exway hypocrites!
These are the same people who used to do meeings with JAL and had over a hundred exway coming at one time. There were about 50 coming when I first started and they dwindled down to maybe 20 including children then less and finally closed shop. What a disgrace. To this day these people call themselves pastors. How sad. to my knowledge a very small handful of people even keep in touch with them anymore. Wonder why?
Thanks for bringing this up. It feels good getting it off my chest after all these years. My intention is not to grill anyone just to put it out there so people will know some exway have jumped on that bandwagon that imagine spoke about. They may jump around, lift holy hands, hoot ‘n holler, but in practice they're just the same as they ever were.
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Ham
I did some things after leaving twi.. I won't tell on a public board.. I've already ruined my reputation as it is.
No, not one was illegal..
:)
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Ham
What's kinda really weird..
I believe I knew God before twi.. had a "vacation" of sorts..and found him after leaving..
I don't think I got involved because I was hungry to know God.
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WOG
That's interesting, Hamm. What do you think it was for you? What were you looking for?
It does make one feel rather stupid, silly, gullible, fill in the blank, to have been taken in yet again by a peer just as we were in The Way.
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Ham
I needed stability. I lost my father when I was fourteen, lost my mother three years later, and my mom had isolated us from some of the other relatives. My brother was as much a basket case as I was, but he was in a little more stable situation.
I really needed stability that a group could offer.. twi just happened to be the wrong place to go.
The bait was pretty enticing.. promises of success, abundance.. love..
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WOG
So you needed the support system of an extended family so to speak?
That's what it felt like to me and maybe that's what I thought I needed the second time too.
Just thinking out loud...
...still trying to figure it out...
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Ham
Yes. My "extended family" now, is a rather casual, professional relationship with various professors, other professional people.
Churches, groups that offer stability, "THE answers", and are rather adamant that they are indeed "right".. I just can't go there.. I think the stability of the beliefs is an illusion..
pretty much think that the connection and stability these groups claim to offer is not real.
Maybe real.. but over-rated.
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WOG
I'm inclined to agree with you. Nicely put. "The stability of the beliefs are an illusion."
The stability IS an illusion.
Hum, the stability is an ILLUSION...
forgive me, still chewing on this one...
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Ham
Well.. there is a warped form of stability perhaps. But it is NOT unconditional love. It is love, and stability based not on who you are, but what you believe, and what you DO.
There are some pretty bold claims of having "agape" kind of love, but in the end, if you disagree, if you don't perform, you're "outta there".
It's false advertising.. the "love bombing" as some call it.. "see? we are the same as FAMILY".
A lot of claims have been made for the religion, but personally, I've NEVER seen any love outside of a real "earthly" family that can be considered truly unconditional.
At best I think it is a second rate substitute.
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WOG
I agree with that.
but they presented themselves as the Family of God so we would...help me out here...feel bound to them??
I'm exploring the relationship between the concept of reflection and illusion...
could it have been that the illusion they presented somehow dovetailed as the reflection of the love, hope, purpose, stability that we hadn't articulated but always wanted??????
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Ham
hmmm. Well.. perhaps some presented themselves as the family of God because they seek the same stability. Maybe some do so to simply gain control or rulership over others. I think most people can realistically compromise in a limited manner, not unconditionally. I think unconditional love is not a realistic expectation from anyone or anything.
I think it is more like a business partnership or agreement. The thing with der vey.. the "partnership" quickly became pretty one sided. I labored, and the real "return" from the root became less and less.. more demands and less performance for their part.
I think loy's rants about how we OWED them support, was a demand for unconditional love. Something he himself was not willing to return.
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WOG
Imagine, I think you've hit on something here. All of this is BIG with Evangelicals now. Are they finding a need in people and filling it or do they get people into all of this to disarm them?
Christians, they stress, must be in a submitted relationship to be taken seriously. In other words someone must be above you or between you and the Lord. And to be submitted you must go to them for advice. Sound familiar?
What was it Martin Luther stressed? The Christian per the scriptures can go directly to God and does not need the Catholic Church to do it for them.
Hum, direct relationship with, to, between you and God, Jesus.
Is this what The Way took away from us while we were with them?
They told us we had a NEED to have someone between us and God, didn't they?
Well, that's what Evangelicals do too. Lots of the same stuff in their meetings....
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Ham
I have a few other theories about some of this..
"ham's theory of light, and the repulsion of the same kind of forces"
For what it's worth..
I think we are beings of light, and were once one entity.. now we're fragmented. We long for the "belonginess" we had, but we also desperately need our individuality. I think existence here is a paradox of sorts.. we need the oneness, yet we also require the individuality to exist in this particular life. So there is a repulsion of sorts.. and the repulsion is slightly greater than the attraction.
I think the connection people desperately want, they can't truly have.. not in this life.
*so ham goes, wearing his protective tin beanie, muttering to himself as he goes..*
Well, my tin hat is not inferior to anybody elses here..
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WOG
What religion is that? Is this one you just made up?????
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Ham
Well.. I kind of think of it as a model. It is a strange mixture of some eastern philosphy, mathmatics and some Budhism, plus a few other philosophies. At the moment, the model is about the best fit to the world as I see it.
So many different opinions, maybe that's why I don't exactly fit in at any one place..
I can usually can find at least one point where I would agree with anybody..
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WOG
why not?
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