Well here is a KIND of a barb, heading ROUGHLY in your direction, but not directly.
I think it's the hight of hype to label common human characteristics as twi characteristics.
All the abusive attitudes I saw in twi can be seen in some posters here today, it's just that they have little more than the power of typed words to execute their wrath. Many of us (on a bad hair day) would readily invade Poland if we had the troops. I must suppress my common old-man characteristics also.
When I first started posting the pile-on I experienced was massive, and far more abusive than anything I had experienced in twi. I should paste a few of the incidents here sometime to illustrate.
My hat is off to management here, as the environs have increased in civility MUCH, but those nasty common human characteristics that twi (actually TVTs) did bring out are still present in some posters and ready to pounce here if left unchecked.
I think it isn't a matter of prejudice.. it's more of maybe psychological conditioning. I personally learned to associate really bad behavior with the few who claimed to have the greatest commitment..
I think it isn't a matter of prejudice.. it's more of maybe psychological conditioning. I personally learned to associate really bad behavior with the few who claimed to have the greatest commitment..
commintment?
not so much to me. I think bad behaviour comes from inability to express and oppression or fear and angry feelings inside. and they are emotions that may or may not have any thing to do with the actual person or situation at hand in the moment.
what do you have to lose? those invested in twi, lived for twi, occasionly went to a fellowship the list is endless on motive of why people got involved, stayed involved etc.
I just hate it when they say God almighty is the reason.
i do not believe it for a moment, God is not twi, or the church next door, or a leader speaking for him no matter how many bible verses they can say.
It would be hard to convince me that .... does not
Work for TWI.
Come on Mr. Squirrel if you are going to post a quote about me at least leave in my name as in the original. Be a man at least make it a personal attack
In the mean time
Anyway, my coffees cold and Im getting told
That I gotta get back to work
So when the sun goes low and youre home all alone
Think of me and try not to laugh and I wear it well..............
Come on Mr. Squirrel if you are going to post a quote about me at least leave in my name as in the original. Be a man at least make it a personal attack
I didn't use your (screen)name, because you were not the intended "target".
Now that you bring it up though..
this is "personal", but not an attack.
What do people PERCEIVE in you?
I think some perceive same kind of hard-heartedness, and recalcitrance that reminds them of someone in a "ministry", long long ago.. some not that long ago.
The perception of course could be valid, or not valid.
The forever "where's the proof, where's the dna, where's the..."
most people here don't conveniently have a stained dress like ms lewinsky.. maybe all they have are their memories. That's a lot of what I have. So when you summarily dismiss people's recollections and memories, I think you remind them of someone higher up in a "ministry", long long ago.. hence one poster writes "I would find it hard to believe if he doesn't work for TWI".
I have in the past brought legitimate claims before "leadership" only to have them summarily swept under a rug. And the leadership above them were informed. Guess what the leader's leader did?
After a while, people quit bringing claims..
all is well, all is "peaceful" again..
Over half of my old "leadership" didin't like attention. They didn't like the spotlight on them.. no "controversy".. just keep sending in abs and monthly reports.. run classes..
anything go wrong.. under the rug it goes..
with isolated areas kinda nice, the whole system was corrupt.
What you are finding here, is DECADES of old dirt swept under the carpet emerging. And there is enough, it isn't exactly easy to put it all back.
I have a whole couple more rooms full of dirt to deal with.. wait till we get to that..
you may be a nice guy, or not.. maybe you're really female.. who knows who you are.. but you smell like "leadership"..
I'm being polite. If I stink, and I know I do at times, I'm only human.. I'd like SOMEBODY to tell me..
Oh yes.. "confrontation".. they had a whole "decade" of it I think..
I've seen "confrontation".. more like damage control.
1. ISOLATE the "incident".. this was the PRIMARY goal. Kinda like hazardous waste. Keep "it" from getting on anybody else.. put up a yellow tape around the "site".. "do not cross" devils wait on the other side..
2. "educate" the few who are aware of the "incident". i.e. label the victim as possessed, weak, etc. etc.. Give a dozen or more good "biblical" reasons why disaster occured.. make sure they won't "glorify der debil" by talking about the incident with anyone outside of the small "cell"..
It's STILL just sweeping more dirt under a carpet somewhere..
I must add my thoughts to this one. I thought I already did; must have gotten lost in space somewhere.
You can't talk about isolation and loneliness without realizing that Corps/Staff who were trying to be helpful/sincere had absolutely no where to turn, no one to run to. We couldn't dare go to someone for "help" without being labeled a problem. We couldn't complain without fearing for our positions (even if we were just "slaves"). We were up the proverbial stream without a dam* boat, never mind a paddle....
There was no brotherhood, brothership, mothership, either. Though we prayed for one!
When I first started posting the pile-on I experienced was massive, and far more abusive than anything I had experienced in twi. I should paste a few of the incidents here sometime to illustrate.
My hat is off to management here, as the environs have increased in civility MUCH, but those nasty common human characteristics that twi (actually TVTs) did bring out are still present in some posters and ready to pounce here if left unchecked.
Mike! so good to see you!
Now... when you're busy cutting and pasting don't forget to paste in all of the condescending nastiness that came from our favorite PFAL masterer... OK?
We must be fair and balanced in our presentations.... oh, wait a minute, that's FOXNews isn't it?
I must add my thoughts to this one. I thought I already did; must have gotten lost in space somewhere.
You can't talk about isolation and loneliness without realizing that Corps/Staff who were trying to be helpful/sincere had absolutely no where to turn, no one to run to. We couldn't dare go to someone for "help" without being labeled a problem. We couldn't complain without fearing for our positions (even if we were just "slaves"). We were up the proverbial stream without a dam* boat, never mind a paddle....
There was no brotherhood, brothership, mothership, either. Though we prayed for one!
Irisheyes------That pretty much sums up how it felt to be a FLO, also.
Our typical day went from 5am til midnight. Lights out and "no talking" after lights out.
Two or three to a room.
There was one tiny 1/2 hour break at about 11pm .
That's when we would walk to the truck stop, out of earshot and share "notes".
There were some other times on the weekend that we used for laundry and such.
But, no one ever drove anywhere alone. (out of economic necessity.)
So it was impossible to bring things up if there were 3 or 4 other people in the car.
If word got out that you ever complained or questioned leadership, you would find yourself in deep doo-doo.
It was a commune set in a rural location with no accessible phones aside from the PUBLIC pay phone at the truck stop.
Almost any call you made was long distance and expensive and right out in the open where anyone could hear.
But, at least there was that bit of time you had as you walked to or from the truck stop when you could talk without an audience.
I don't think any of us had the slightest idea how far reaching some of these problems were.
Mostly we viewed it from our narrow perspective inside the parameters of the program.
WS: Is it really off topic? I don't think so. The ultimate insult was how we were asked to live our lives. At least when we were sleeping we were free to dream. No one could take that away from us. Although, some of those "dreams" were really nightmares. Funny, I still seem to have them at times. Anything about TWI turns into a nightmare somehow. Hey, is that why so many of us looked like/acted like ZOMBIES????
WS: Is it really off topic? I don't think so. The ultimate insult was how we were asked to live our lives. At least when we were sleeping we were free to dream. No one could take that away from us. Although, some of those "dreams" were really nightmares. Funny, I still seem to have them at times. Anything about TWI turns into a nightmare somehow. Hey, is that why so many of us looked like/acted like ZOMBIES????
Thanks, Irish.
Of course, we weren't really SUPPOSED to dream.(or admit to anyone that we did)
That was supposedly a sign that one's spiritual trapdoor was ajar and debuhl spurts were poking their head in the door.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who heard that taught in the Advanced Class.
That was an insult you had to pretend did not apply to you.
Just another control devise since even discussing it indicated you were tainted.
Was that thinking prevalent in areas you lived in also?
I think the reason we looked and acted like zombies is because we hardly ever got a proper night's sleep. <_<
Well, that and the familia buzz that kept us functioning.
and i have never ever dreamed, I know what it is people have told me it is like tv when you sleep.
I have no clue never had it happen to me.
I wonder about it tho sounds awful even if it is a good dream.
they dreamed in the bible . I do not understand how it is a bad thing.
I'm confused, "across the pond." If it sounds awful to you, how could you not understand that it can be a bad thing? Just like TV, scary things can happen. Just like books and movies, etc., and, of course, real life (as we knew it). Have you never read a scary Koontz or Stephen King novel? Actually, I read Stephen King when I need a good laugh. I think he's hilarious.
At any rate, you should have your head examined. Your statement of never having a dream confirmed what I thought about you--you ain't normal. IMHO, of course. That and $3 of American money can get you a decent caramel latte. Have a good day, or is it night? Like I said, I'm confused by you.
Of course, we weren't really SUPPOSED to dream.(or admit to anyone that we did)
That was supposedly a sign that one's spiritual trapdoor was ajar and debuhl spurts were poking their head in the door.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who heard that taught in the Advanced Class.
That was an insult you had to pretend did not apply to you.
Just another control devise since even discussing it indicated you were tainted.
Was that thinking prevalent in areas you lived in also?
I think the reason we looked and acted like zombies is because we hardly ever got a proper night's sleep. <_<
Well, that and the familia buzz that kept us functioning.
WS: Do you mean the familia cereal? Gag!! I can't honestly say I remember we weren't supposed to dream or talk about it. Don't doubt it though, but it sure screams of ridiculous considering God even spoke to unbelievers in their dreams/sleep. Actually, had an incident the other night; well, now that WOULD be off topic.
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Mike
Well here is a KIND of a barb, heading ROUGHLY in your direction, but not directly.
I think it's the hight of hype to label common human characteristics as twi characteristics.
All the abusive attitudes I saw in twi can be seen in some posters here today, it's just that they have little more than the power of typed words to execute their wrath. Many of us (on a bad hair day) would readily invade Poland if we had the troops. I must suppress my common old-man characteristics also.
When I first started posting the pile-on I experienced was massive, and far more abusive than anything I had experienced in twi. I should paste a few of the incidents here sometime to illustrate.
My hat is off to management here, as the environs have increased in civility MUCH, but those nasty common human characteristics that twi (actually TVTs) did bring out are still present in some posters and ready to pounce here if left unchecked.
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cman
Including you Mike.
And not excluding me either.
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pond
I agree it is the nature of the beast.
but my theory is if ya think ya got some kibble for the kitty cat be aware of the tiger that lives inside. ( no not you bumpy)
policing a site like this is incredible, and it is the respect i have for this site and its purpose that tempers my beast as much as I am able.
it is what it is. no need to torment our souls over anything inmy opinion.
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Ham
I think it isn't a matter of prejudice.. it's more of maybe psychological conditioning. I personally learned to associate really bad behavior with the few who claimed to have the greatest commitment..
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pond
commintment?
not so much to me. I think bad behaviour comes from inability to express and oppression or fear and angry feelings inside. and they are emotions that may or may not have any thing to do with the actual person or situation at hand in the moment.
what do you have to lose? those invested in twi, lived for twi, occasionly went to a fellowship the list is endless on motive of why people got involved, stayed involved etc.
I just hate it when they say God almighty is the reason.
i do not believe it for a moment, God is not twi, or the church next door, or a leader speaking for him no matter how many bible verses they can say.
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WhiteDove
Come on Mr. Squirrel if you are going to post a quote about me at least leave in my name as in the original. Be a man at least make it a personal attack
In the mean time
Anyway, my coffees cold and Im getting told
That I gotta get back to work
So when the sun goes low and youre home all alone
Think of me and try not to laugh and I wear it well..............
Rod Stewart
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Mike
So the claim can be seen as bad behavior.
Here's a twist: I'll claim to have the greatest commitment to bad behavior. Would my behavior then be good or bad in your association?
It reminds me of the graduate student who dedicated his thesis "To all those students who did not dedicate their thesis to themselves."
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Ham
I didn't use your (screen)name, because you were not the intended "target".
Now that you bring it up though..
this is "personal", but not an attack.
What do people PERCEIVE in you?
I think some perceive same kind of hard-heartedness, and recalcitrance that reminds them of someone in a "ministry", long long ago.. some not that long ago.
The perception of course could be valid, or not valid.
The forever "where's the proof, where's the dna, where's the..."
most people here don't conveniently have a stained dress like ms lewinsky.. maybe all they have are their memories. That's a lot of what I have. So when you summarily dismiss people's recollections and memories, I think you remind them of someone higher up in a "ministry", long long ago.. hence one poster writes "I would find it hard to believe if he doesn't work for TWI".
I have in the past brought legitimate claims before "leadership" only to have them summarily swept under a rug. And the leadership above them were informed. Guess what the leader's leader did?
After a while, people quit bringing claims..
all is well, all is "peaceful" again..
Over half of my old "leadership" didin't like attention. They didn't like the spotlight on them.. no "controversy".. just keep sending in abs and monthly reports.. run classes..
anything go wrong.. under the rug it goes..
with isolated areas kinda nice, the whole system was corrupt.
What you are finding here, is DECADES of old dirt swept under the carpet emerging. And there is enough, it isn't exactly easy to put it all back.
I have a whole couple more rooms full of dirt to deal with.. wait till we get to that..
you may be a nice guy, or not.. maybe you're really female.. who knows who you are.. but you smell like "leadership"..
I'm being polite. If I stink, and I know I do at times, I'm only human.. I'd like SOMEBODY to tell me..
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Ham
not quite. Not if the claim itself is true.
"thank gawd for da man of gawd who is VALIANT to the TRUTH.."
when in reality, the claim was "he was valiant for HIMSELF"..
but we were taught to associate bad behavior with their "greatness", were we not?
"a prophet is a HARD MAN TO LIVE WITH"
"He's just edgey because he has to fight der devil all the live long day.."
"he screams because he loves us so much.."
"he needs sex so he isn't distracted when he teaches der verd"
after a hair raising session:
"wow, he sure is VALIANT for the TRUTH"..
So there was an association formed.
One person here, I told them "you remind me of someone in the old bible group I belonged to.."
It wasn't exactly a compliment..
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Ham
Oh yes.. "confrontation".. they had a whole "decade" of it I think..
I've seen "confrontation".. more like damage control.
1. ISOLATE the "incident".. this was the PRIMARY goal. Kinda like hazardous waste. Keep "it" from getting on anybody else.. put up a yellow tape around the "site".. "do not cross" devils wait on the other side..
2. "educate" the few who are aware of the "incident". i.e. label the victim as possessed, weak, etc. etc.. Give a dozen or more good "biblical" reasons why disaster occured.. make sure they won't "glorify der debil" by talking about the incident with anyone outside of the small "cell"..
It's STILL just sweeping more dirt under a carpet somewhere..
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pond
somrthing about the beasts on this site. truly amazing Mr.
white doves may not think he stinks and will fight till the end to prove it to ya!
we really cant smell through a machine.
but what you said in the second post
WOW WOW the prophet being a hard man to take, like it was an excuse for all what you metioned.
your right absoluting that is the group i belonged to. conditioned to accept meanness and abuse in the name of God.
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excathedra
what the he ll are we talking about now ?
in my job no one asks me for you-know-whats
not saying it doesn't happen
in my church (i don't have one) i hope they don't ask you to spiritually consider giving them
the time of day
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pond
I know normal people are different right ex. go figure.
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excathedra
hi pond
--
--
i think it's the height of insult to label common human characteristics to anything to do with veepee
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Ham
they tell me I smell pretty ripe when my fur is wet..
Not so bad as to use Mogbegone. Just a little Febreeze..
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irisheyes
I must add my thoughts to this one. I thought I already did; must have gotten lost in space somewhere.
You can't talk about isolation and loneliness without realizing that Corps/Staff who were trying to be helpful/sincere had absolutely no where to turn, no one to run to. We couldn't dare go to someone for "help" without being labeled a problem. We couldn't complain without fearing for our positions (even if we were just "slaves"). We were up the proverbial stream without a dam* boat, never mind a paddle....
There was no brotherhood, brothership, mothership, either. Though we prayed for one!
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Ham
I would agree. A lot of those who would really make a difference were turned into administrators, class runners, report makers..
"low MAINTAINENCE *believers*"
I heard that label given to people..
just don't have any "problems" or honest questions..
keep the blue forms coming, on time..
and the white forms..
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Tom Strange
Mike! so good to see you!
Now... when you're busy cutting and pasting don't forget to paste in all of the condescending nastiness that came from our favorite PFAL masterer... OK?
We must be fair and balanced in our presentations.... oh, wait a minute, that's FOXNews isn't it?
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waysider
Irisheyes------That pretty much sums up how it felt to be a FLO, also.
Our typical day went from 5am til midnight. Lights out and "no talking" after lights out.
Two or three to a room.
There was one tiny 1/2 hour break at about 11pm .
That's when we would walk to the truck stop, out of earshot and share "notes".
There were some other times on the weekend that we used for laundry and such.
But, no one ever drove anywhere alone. (out of economic necessity.)
So it was impossible to bring things up if there were 3 or 4 other people in the car.
If word got out that you ever complained or questioned leadership, you would find yourself in deep doo-doo.
It was a commune set in a rural location with no accessible phones aside from the PUBLIC pay phone at the truck stop.
Almost any call you made was long distance and expensive and right out in the open where anyone could hear.
But, at least there was that bit of time you had as you walked to or from the truck stop when you could talk without an audience.
I don't think any of us had the slightest idea how far reaching some of these problems were.
Mostly we viewed it from our narrow perspective inside the parameters of the program.
Sorry, I think I strayed from topic.
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irisheyes
WS: Is it really off topic? I don't think so. The ultimate insult was how we were asked to live our lives. At least when we were sleeping we were free to dream. No one could take that away from us. Although, some of those "dreams" were really nightmares. Funny, I still seem to have them at times. Anything about TWI turns into a nightmare somehow. Hey, is that why so many of us looked like/acted like ZOMBIES????
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waysider
Thanks, Irish.
Of course, we weren't really SUPPOSED to dream.(or admit to anyone that we did)
That was supposedly a sign that one's spiritual trapdoor was ajar and debuhl spurts were poking their head in the door.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who heard that taught in the Advanced Class.
That was an insult you had to pretend did not apply to you.
Just another control devise since even discussing it indicated you were tainted.
Was that thinking prevalent in areas you lived in also?
I think the reason we looked and acted like zombies is because we hardly ever got a proper night's sleep. <_<
Well, that and the familia buzz that kept us functioning.
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pond
Well I was marked by the way. no good I was.
and i have never ever dreamed, I know what it is people have told me it is like tv when you sleep.
I have no clue never had it happen to me.
I wonder about it tho sounds awful even if it is a good dream.
they dreamed in the bible . I do not understand how it is a bad thing.
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irisheyes
I'm confused, "across the pond." If it sounds awful to you, how could you not understand that it can be a bad thing? Just like TV, scary things can happen. Just like books and movies, etc., and, of course, real life (as we knew it). Have you never read a scary Koontz or Stephen King novel? Actually, I read Stephen King when I need a good laugh. I think he's hilarious.
At any rate, you should have your head examined. Your statement of never having a dream confirmed what I thought about you--you ain't normal. IMHO, of course. That and $3 of American money can get you a decent caramel latte. Have a good day, or is it night? Like I said, I'm confused by you.
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irisheyes
WS: Do you mean the familia cereal? Gag!! I can't honestly say I remember we weren't supposed to dream or talk about it. Don't doubt it though, but it sure screams of ridiculous considering God even spoke to unbelievers in their dreams/sleep. Actually, had an incident the other night; well, now that WOULD be off topic.
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