Who do you have the most unresolved issue's with? LCM or leaders you were directly involved with? Or someone else?

[happyheart]

I was thinking that I don't hate LcM. I don't appreciate the damage he caused by any means. But I think the bigger problem was the people closest to him that encouraged his insane behavior. If my husband ranted and raved out of control in public, I would do something about it or hopefully our friends and family would do something. I would at the very least be embarrassed, not standing by applauding.

It seems like LcMmOg was unstable with a narcisistic personality disorder. I think the people closest to him let his behavior go unchecked because they were busy promoting their own agenda's behind the scenes. He provided an effective distraction. He wasn't the brightest crayon in the box and I think they knew that and used it to their advantage. (Seriously, didn't he clue into the fact that just about nobody in this world thinks preachers having affairs is acceptable? I know he watched the news. How dumb do you have to be?)

I just shake my head at how I believed he was the MOG and that I followed his whacky advice. But if I think about some WC leaders and what they did-I actually hold them more responsible for the viciousness that went on. Instead of being friends, they were users and abusers. They had closer access and used what they knew about good people against them.

I remember the crazy rantings from teachings, but the actions I saw leaders take were the hardest to get over. Especially some limb coords I knew-they were horrible human beings.

I know some believers who are mostly angry at top leadership and some who are mostly angry at their families.

Just wonder what the feelings are others have on this.

[excathedra]

i'm not sure i have to think

but i do know that vp's "fatherly-sitting-down-to-hold-my-hand-sessions" are very suspect to say the least

[Ham]

well.. I suppose I have a good number of unresolved issues with these buffoons.. but I've come to terms with the thought they may NEVER be resolved. I can live with that. Partly because I think I understand their nature. Now, when the third generation picks up the ball, ignoring practically everything that came of vic's handiwork, it's a whole different story.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

I think that twi provided the structure for abuse to flourish...just imagine, middle management positions with a built in "catch 22" clause in the deal. Anyone "below" you that questioned you was questioning God. Now that's what I call an "advantagous position". We saw abuse abound. Lcm set the example for being a heavy handed loud mouth...and anyone with similar "leadership tendencies" jumped all over it.

I think that wanting to control other people stems from low self esteem...and twi had plenty of people like that.

[Jim]

Certainly nothing here to argue with. It seemed that leadership at HQ had to be a unique blend of competence and asskissing. Plenty of blame to go all around. See the first line of my sig.

[cheranne]

angry at myself for buying into the whole thing and wasting my time,education,money and hurting my family

[wing]

Glad to hear you have some anger over this, happyheart; or least some agony. Not that anger or agony are good things by themselves. But seeing (or hearing about) so many people being indiscriminatly abused by someone using a bible to do it, that should p*ss us all off.

Ham may be right about the unresolved NEVER becoming resolved. Even if we put it all away, that doesn't settle it. Some folks out there want to see it live on and on. Some offer that there were many good things we should keep. How do we put that away?

It took such a little while for us to become indoctrinated. And getting indoctrinated didn't really take so much effort on our parts, being force fed like we were, so to speak. But how to undo that? Individually; on our own? that'll take a lot more effort than it took any of us to go through TWI. And who to hold responsible? HQ? & all those inbetween on and on to the twig leaders? Take your pick. No matter where you find those bad guys; those 'at the top' set the pace, the standard, and the example for all of the others.

I personally know some that lost their jobs (and acess to the ministry, which could be said "was their life") after confronting the likes of LCM.

Nothing easy here.

[happyheart]

Glad to hear you have some anger over this, happyheart; or least some agony.

??????? Don't know what you mean by that.

[wing]

??????? Don't know what you mean by that.

Happyheart. I'm sorry, I think the words that I used were much stronger than yours. my bad.

Your phrase was ". . . I don't appreciate the damagae he (LCM) caused by . . ." and in the ending paragraph

" . . . some believers are angry at top leadership. . ."

I am glad that you have strong feelings against something so hurtful taking place.

It should, IMO, make us angry that someone can hold a bible on the one hand, and be so abusive on the other.

[happyheart]

Happyheart. I'm sorry, I think the words that I used were much stronger than yours. my bad.

Your phrase was ". . . I don't appreciate the damagae he (LCM) caused by . . ." and in the ending paragraph

" . . . some believers are angry at top leadership. . ."

I am glad that you have strong feelings against something so hurtful taking place.

It should, IMO, make us angry that someone can hold a bible on the one hand, and be so abusive on the other.

Thanks for explaining Wing. I had a hard time explaining what I was trying to get at in that post. Later I thought I could have made it shorter by asking "What upsets you more about your involvement with twi? Top leaders, leaders you were directly involved with, your family, other believers or yourself?

I probably come across as pretty mild at times. It's because I am. I was angry for a long time-but I'm not anymore, for the most part. It took a while. I'm still working through why I allowed myself to be abused and used. Why I sacrificed my well being and friendships with people who cared about me to please people who did not care about me. I think it's important no matter what stage we are all at that we discuss what happened. We can help each other. We were in the same boat for various reasons. It helps me to explore that.

Have a great day everyone

[TheHighWay]

Excellent question!!

I think most of my anger/frustration gets aimed right at VP-dubya himself. He started it. He got away with it. He taught others to carry on his legacy. If he hadn't set up the original structure, mindset, and support system, Craig wouldn't have happened. A lot of things wouldn't have happened.

Beyond that, there have been long discussions at the greasespot about who else we should be upset with... some seem like obvious vultures who appear to have known EXACTLY what was going on and turned a blind eye (can you say M*yn*h*n??), while others seem as much innocent victims as the rest of us, who became so conditioned and found themselves in so deep they really didn't know how to get out (as many feel was the case with Dorothea W.)

And now you bring up a good additional point about local leadership being in our direct path. So many folks never had any individual contact with VeePee or Craig, whereas they got personally shredded by their local high-ships. So it would be easy to see how their feelings would be directed to those folks. That wasn't in some special training program that you volunteered for, that was day-to-day stuff, trying to just live stuff, I didn't ask for this stuff, nowhere to run stuff.

Like so many issues of being ex-twi, I think it's a personal thing; different for each of us... The questions I ask: Who did you the most harm? Who's motives do you understand? Who has actually asked for forgiveness or changed? Who is still there supporting twi? I agree with Ham... I don't expect an opportunity to reconcile my feelings with many of the folks who caused me harm. So I ask myself these questions to help me get to the point that I can live with it all, and move on with my own life in peace.